Neck replacement

[William Stephens]

Hi folks

After a long concert schedule at college that concluded with a performance of Beethoven's 9th I was left in some discomfort from my 43" stop 4/4 size bass!

I think I'm gonna take the plunge and start enquiring locally about the cost of cutting the instrument down at the top in order to shorten the stop slightly and bring the neck heel and bridge closer together.

My bass has also been subjected to the most hideous amateur style neck replacement and scroll graft at some point in the past.

I was thinking about the various methods that exist for replacing a bass's neck - ie completely precarved neck, partially precarved neck, new neck with scroll graft, etc.

At what sort of quality in terms of the instrument would a luthier starting thinking about a scroll graft rather than a precarved neck? and just how much work is saved by fitting a partially carved neck (with the heel left rough) rather than a full on graft?

What would happen if the instrument already has an extension fitted?


It would be interesting to hear some thoughts

thanks

Will

[Ken Smith]

From my standpoint having had many Basses restored, cut and altered in every way including work done before my time on basses I have owned I can say that I have seen just about everything in terms of Grafts and string length reductions.

As far as value, any kind of decent Bass should get a Graft unless it's a cheap modern factory bass. Even my 1997 Shen 3/4 Gemunder 1000 model has a Scroll graft. The Neck had a hidden knot and the Neck also back bowed in the first year here in USA. In straightening the Neck it broke and the designer/dist. himself graftet a new Neck leaving me with the original Scroll attached.

Ask yourself this. Would you buy YOUR Bass from someone knowing they put an entirely new Neck in to save money and tossed the original Scroll?

Show some pictures of your bass and then the measurements. There will be some questions asked of you to measure because you will not think of every number to post that will determine the work needed to achieve a shorter length that is also easier to play.

A new or shorter neck still doesn't not bring the octave up closer to you unless the Bridge is moved closer to the Neck, one way or another.

Being in the UK you have two top Luthiers that I know of and maybe more. They are Roger Dawson and Martyn Bailey.

There are several ways to cut a bass from the shoulders to the Block and the Ribs as well at the corners to lower them if you want to retain the Rib curves as they are.

When I did the 9th a couple of years ago I used my English Gilkes (Samuel) that's only a 41" length. That last page is a killer..

On the Extension, with a New Scroll/Neck you might loose it. With a Graft, it can be re-fitted usually BUT, if you have chromatic Keys of some sort they will need to be moved or re-made due to the shorter length.

Take your bass to a Top Pro Bass Luthier and consult with him. Use a Luthier known for this kind of work and not one who will do it for less money as he learns.

Expect this to cost several thousand dollars or pounds and once inside, the other work that might be needed with jack up the estimate as well.

[William Stephens]

Thanks

Unfortunately my camera is broken :(, but I found a few old pics of the bass I took a while back. I don't know if they are relevant to the topic.

At the moment what I am after is an estimate, where I get the money from to pay for it will be my next problem to solve.

The way I see it, I bought the bass because I (and others) thought the instrument would be a good one for starting the profession with. If the instrument is going to potentially be your livelyhood rather than an amateur hobby then spending lots of money on it to make it more viable to play probably becomes more justified.

The bass has caused me a certain amount of injury which I have not experienced on any other bass. I figure that if you play 10 basses and 1 of them hurts you it's probably safe to blame the bass rather than your own technique :p:). It's also very difficult to play certain pieces and techniques on the instrument which a potential mark loser in college and money loser in the profession.

The problems as I see it are firstly, the stop is so long that the bridge is out of reach for the bow, and the higher notes (high d, double octave) are out of reach for the left hand. The bass' neck angle is also unusually shallow, with the fingerboard quite flat against the top. This coupled with wide shoulders makes it pretty straining on the left shoulder when attempting some pieces and technical excercises necesarry for college( arrgh!;))

I was thinking of taking it to Martyn Bailey for the estimate as I notice he has done a few of these shortening jobs for Anthony Houska (Contrabass Shoppe).

As far as measurements go, here are some general ones:-


Back (inc. button) 46.5"
Upper bout at widest point 20.75"
Centre at narrowest point 14.75"
Lower at widest 27"
Depth before angle break(inc.plates) 8.5
Depth at neck heel (inc. plates) 6.25"
String stop length 43" D neck
( bridge currently set at 42.5")
Bridge height 6.75"


Heres some of the pics I mentioned

Thanks again

Will

[William Stephens]

When I did the 9th a couple of years ago I used my English Gilkes (Samuel) that's only a 41" length. That last page is a killer..

I say thank goodness for that short maestoso section just before the end-

It's almost as if Beethoven was giving the string players a little respite before the final push at the end!

[Ken Smith]

I looked at your bass and its measurements. This is a turn of the Century Germanic (German style or Bohemian) Flatback Bass.

This is an easy bass to play by size as compared to higher shouldered English, Italian or French basses.

Easiest and cheapest way would be to cut the Block, not the shoulders, maybe add wood to the Block inside as well to set the Neck in deeper in the mortise. Then, sit the Bridge just above the F-notches and play it like that. The Neck graft would only be needed if it is not solid and sound. The Luthiers can move the Neck out a bit and even slightly re pitch one way or another and make it play easier.

Also, how tall are you? Arm/shirt size length?

I play many Basses as big or bigger than yours and some hurt and some don't!.

Here is a bass that we cut with Before (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/MorelliBass2.htm) and After (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/MorelliBass.htm) Pictures. The bass was a roundback at about 43 7/8ths" string length and an Eb neck. With the same same neck and a block cut it was reduced to 42 3/8ths with the bridge cheated forward just a bit. The pictures are old and were not taked to teach the block cut method exactly so look it over carefully so you can guess what to expect. We reduced it by 1/5". On your bass it would hit 41.5" if the same job was done.

[William Stephens]

Also, how tall are you? Arm/shirt size length?

I play many Basses as big or bigger than yours and some hurt and some don't!.

Oddly enough I'm not a short guy! - I'm about 5'9ish. my arm measured from armpit to wrist is about 18.5"

I remember reading once somebody saying a good way of telling wether a bass was suited to a player in terms of size was that if the player can from the playing position reach over and touch the bridge comfortably with their left hand then the instrument will be fine. If not it may hurt!

It sounds a little pedantic but I wonder if there may be some truth in it..

on my bass I'm about an inch short of the bridge when I do that. The bass does hurt!:)

When you see old basses with huge stop lengths and body sizes it makes you wonder how tall the people were in those days.;):D

Thanks

Will

[Matthew Tucker]

When you see old basses with huge stop lengths and body sizes it makes you wonder how tall the people were in those days.;):D

I think they just left the high notes to the fiddle players.