GA Pfrezschner -- want advice on value/restoration

[David McKinney]

First post here--great forum...


Picked up this bass recently, quite like the neck profile and the sound; now I'm deciding how far to go with it. Bass plays well and sounds good. It used to be a school bass, lots of scratches and some names carved lightly into the wood. That stuff doesn't bother me at all, gives the bass character IMO.

Bass is buzz-free most of the time, but there are cracks, and they do sound sometimes, especially under heavy bow.

No cracks in the back, minor cracks in the sides, top has multiple cracks, including soundpost and bassbar. Looking inside with a mirror we see that most of the cracks have been cleated, skillfully but not masterfully. We also see that the top might need a soundpost patch. Difficult to say for sure...


The scroll is kind of a jigsaw puzzle, but put back together. My local luthier who looked at the bass with me says the scroll makes her a bit nervous, but it looks OK to me...


Question #1: How far would you go with a restoration on this? I'm inclined to take off the top and have it restored & address anything else serious that we might find, but not get too fussy about little details--just make the bass very healthy again

Question #2: Roughly how much in $ would you ballpark a "basic" restoration like I'm describing--top off, soundpost patch, repair cracks...

Question #3: What would you ballpark the bass's value to be in its present state and after a basic resto like I'm describing?

Question #4: Who would you recommend to do a job like this here in the pacific NW?

All comments/advice are most appreciated--thanks!

[David McKinney]

more pics:

[David McKinney]

The first pic in this series shows the most distressed area:

[Ken McKay]

Nice looking bass.

I am also worried about the scroll, it has been cracked clean off and looks to have been glued back on, maybe epoxy or something. If there are any reinforcements it might be ok for quite a while. Big can of worms to fix.

The neck has broken off from the body in its past and looks like it has been repaired by bolting or doweling it back in place. That is a can of worms to fix but might be ok for a while.

The top is cracked here and there and probably needs some work. I look inside to assess if the cracks are cleated. If not the top needs to come off and I would do a thorough repatching and probably a patch on the soundpost and bar. Big can of worms also.

If you own it and it plays well, I would just keep playing until something really needs to be fixed.

So to sum up, check for un-cleated cracks on top and if there is nothing obvious, keep playing.

Value is not my best subject but a full restoration would be close to my guess of value.

Good luck.

[Ken Smith]

I agree with Ken on this. I waited for at least one reply before answering.

I had one of these basses but was labeled Morelli. Same bass and same importer as well.

Look for this IF the Top comes off;

The Top and Back will be ULTRA thick in its graduations. Re-graduating will improve its tone. The Bass bar will most likely be integral if original as these were factory machined carved.

Repair whats broken correctly. Do not add to the bad repairs with more bad repairs. Have the varnish touched up to look as close to original and then leave it alone.

The neck overstand is way shallow and possibly in its original position. This will need to be done as well. Remove the neck, fix scroll and maybe if ok, keep and re-shape fingerboard if necessary. Or, new Fb and Bridge. If string length is long and an Eb neck, graft a new neck, D-heel. Set original neck lower in the Block as well if not grafted to help with the string length. Give us all the measurements of the bass as listed on my website. Ribs are measured without the top and back, always.

mine; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/MorelliBass.htm

and b4; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/MorelliBass2.htm

By the way, that bass is an import made for the US market. There is no such person that ever made basses or violins by that name. It was made up for the import company just like Morelli was.

These are good basses once fixed. Some sound good even broken or poorly repaired. The difference? Repaired correctly they might and usually play better. Repaired correctly they also have a much better resale value.

Value now as-is? 1-3k.. Restored my style; 10k+.. Cost to repair everything? Here with my guys doing the work? 5-12k.. Depending what we see on the initial inspection and then modified after the bass is taken apart.

Results after the work is done my way? It would be a desirable 'cream puff' bass to play or own. The Morelli we did was fit for the best Orchestra after completed but a fine jazz player snatched it up. It was a 'honey' of a bass.

[Brian Casey]

Hi David. I've got a bass very much like yours down here in Portland, although it hasn't seen quite the same treatment and is in fully repaired (although unlikely Ken Smith-Style) condition. It too, I think, is a honey of a bass, although I am kind of wishing I had an excuse to pop the top and have it re-graduated. It is a little thick in the wood, which seems to stiffle it a little. That said, it's a fabulous bass, and was suggested to me by Glen Moore, who said that this bass would teach me many things about tone and basses in general. I feel like it has, and continues to do so.

Ken's the right guy to ask about all of this. He's been instrumental in my last couple of bass acquisitions, and his advice is always sound and well-informed. As a point of reference and getting back to your initial question, my bass, which is very similar to yours (as Ken says, Same Bass, and in our case, even the same stamp inside) was purchased here in Portland for $7K, and appraised for $9K by D. Scott Henrie, a respected Luthier in Chicago. My position would be that if you feel right with the instrument, and like the core tone enough to think that if it's solid and healthy it could be your 'lifetime' instrument, it is worth the repair. If you're looking to fix it and turn it over, I doubt you'll do any better than break even. Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favor of saving any bass worthy of significant repairs, and if mine in good health is any indication, I think yours will be a sweetheart of a bass once restored. It might take years for the market to catch up with the amount you've put into it.

For the record, I found that my Pfretschner is much more suited to jazz playing (I've got Olivs on top and Spiro Mittles on the bottom) than orchestral playing. Because the top is thick, it doesn't project and I never felt like I could lead or even be heard in a section, so I found another 1930's German bass (which happened to have been regraduated in 1940) that seems to me to do a much better job in an orchestra with orchestral strings.

If you look at older posted in the This New Bass section of this forum, you'll see pics of both of my basses. Check out my Pfretschner and tell me that it doesn't look like the younger sister of yours. (There is a single '5' carved into the upper bout on the G string side, which is the only purposeful carving. I'm assuming it was bass #5 in whatever Chicago school it was from.)

If you're in Portland, you're welcome to get in touch and we'll share bass stories and you can have a closer inspection of my Pfrestschner.

As for luthiers capable of complete restorations, I don't know of anybody personally in Seattle, but I think that Glen Moore has someone near Vanvouver BC that he highly recommends. Phil Baker here in Portland also uses a guy in Southern Washington who he trusts to restore old basses. Of course, if you are interested in talking to people in Portland who restore basses, I'm happy to give you a couple referrals.

Best of luck, and let us know which path you ultimately choose to take.

b

[David McKinney]

Thanks for the feedback fellas--much appreciated.

It plays well now, but I may decide to restore it down the road...


Brian, could you please PM me with some luthiers in Portland and BC? It'd be good to have the numbers on file, for this bass and for others as well...


Thanks again,

David

[David McKinney]

I'm giving serious thought to going through with restoration...


Ken, I was wondering if you could give some detail on the tonal improvement you experienced with your similar bass.


I'd like to hear any changes you noticed, but in particular I'm curious if the bass developed more power and spread in the bottom...

[Ken Smith]

I'm giving serious thought to going through with restoration...


Ken, I was wondering if you could give some detail on the tonal improvement you experienced with your similar bass.


I'd like to hear any changes you noticed, but in particular I'm curious if the bass developed more power and spread in the bottom...

Well, on the Morelli Bass I really have no idea. When I bought the Bass, it was falling apart, the sound posy lying loose on the bottom and not strung up. The first time I heard the bass was after the work was completed. The tone was beyond any German Shop bass I had ever heard. Arnold;s comment to me was "you can play this bass in the New York Philharmonic"!

I played one big concert with it doing Beeth 5th. The low C ext. notes were clearly heard on stage. At one other dress rehearsal one of the other players in the section commented "that low C is the resonant frequency of the Stage' as it shook the floor.

If the bass is of good dimensions, good quality wood and then modified and restored skillfully then you will have a better sounding bass in the end from what you started with.

One of the Basses I own that I DID know its sound before the restoration was improved remarkably. It was a good sounding bass before it went under the knife. It came out a great sounding bass when the job was done. The spread and bottom was improved to a large degree on this bass. In the two years since the job was done I have notice even more improvement in the sound each year as well.

I do not know your bass personally so it's hard to tell from here what you might expect. What I can say is that a bass in its best possible condition including graduations is better than if left alone in disrepair or as-is from the factory. At this point, the fate of your bass is at the hands of the Luthier doing the work!

[David McKinney]

Thanks for the reply Ken...much appreciated.


Now I need to find a great luthier on the west coast, ideally the pacific NW coast, or nearby canada.


Suggestions much appreciated...

[Ken Smith]

Thanks for the reply Ken...much appreciated.


Now I need to find a great luthier on the west coast, ideally the pacific NW coast, or nearby canada.


Suggestions much appreciated...

This is like surgery. Pick only the Doctor you can talk with and trust 100%. Once they put you to sleep, they have total control.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

This is like surgery. Pick only the Doctor you can talk with and trust 100%. Once they put you to sleep, they have total control.Ken, when I snap my fingers you will awaken...then you will find a pen and paper. Now write out a bill of sale for your J. Hart bass, transferring ownership to me for $25. Now sign it. I'll be down in the afternoon to pick up the bass. One...two...three...SNAP!

[David McKinney]

This is like surgery. Pick only the Doctor you can talk with and trust 100%. Once they put you to sleep, they have total control.

Yep, this is why I'm hoping you or Arnold or someone else on the board might have a rec for someone one the west coast who can be entrusted with such a job...

[Ken Smith]

Ken, when I snap my fingers you will awaken...then you will find a pen and paper. Now write out a bill of sale for your J. Hart bass, transferring ownership to me for $25. Now sign it. I'll be down in the afternoon to pick up the bass. One...two...three...SNAP!

I'm sleeping and I can't get up..
I'm sleeping and I can't get up..
I'm sleeping and I can't get up..
I'm sleeping and I can't get up..
I'm sleeping and I can't get up..
I'm sleeping and I can't get up..
I'm sleeping and I can't get up..:eek::D;)

But, when I do wake up, I will let you adjust the soundpost for the Hart.

I bet in 1830, you might have been close on the offer but today.. naaah.. Keep dreaming..:eek::p

Hey, for $25, I'll give you the original Corner Block that came out of it and for $50, the old Tailblock..:p

I save these things..;)

[Nathan Parker]

The two best luthiers I know of in the Seattle area would be Sara Balmforth and Tom Barrett. Tom is only here half of the year, though, and then he goes to Ireland for the other half. I haven't done anything so serious with a bass, but I have used both those luthiers and they have done great work.