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Matthew Tucker
05-05-2010, 11:24 PM
Here’s an interesting project for me. Customer brought in this nice old flatback bass, found in an attic.



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2745/4519133614_bd063a69b4.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4519134382_379d6dbaab.jpg


The button carving below, and the outline to me appears typical of French basses from the mid-late 1800's. The ugly bolt is NOT typical! This one has no immediately apparent makers mark or label. I'm thinking something like a Lamy Mirecourt bass. Any maker suggestions?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/4518500619_dbfe4a4ab9.jpg

The Scroll has snapped off just below the nut and this will mean a scroll graft repair for sure.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4519131752_b182d9d251.jpg

Nice big scroll, looks original, four pegs and a very crusty set of gut strings. This was never a three-stringer. Also the volute has been broken off above the top tuner at some point and repaired but not in a very satisfactory way.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4519131002_0a900953d5.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4519130096_4b6f0a517e.jpg

The Scroll gives an idea of the original red-brown varnish which on the rest of the instrument has deteriorated into a pobbly mess. I suspect it was a spirit varnish because of the brittleness of what is remaining, but the heat of the attic has shrunken and denatured whatever was there originally. There are a few spots on the top where the colour shows through. The wood is lovely. I think the ground is intact and I may be able to keep this by carefully scraping the crud off the surface then cleaning, when it’s time to refinish. That’s a long way off yet.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4525214473_d826607325.jpg

There are about ten cracks in the top ranging from these long ones to the usual short cracks near the FF tabs. And a nasty sound post crack that will come together OK but require an inlaid patch.

The top arching is not sunken in any way; it looks perfectly fine, perhaps due to a thickish top. I'll get the graduations off it when I have it apart.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2693/4519118932_ff2eb421f4.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2734/4519121696_dd73eb491c.jpg

Corners are worn but repairable. This is the worst one.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4518488153_499ffb3d23.jpg

Matthew Tucker
05-05-2010, 11:25 PM
Inside the top block looks like a bit of a mess, and I think I can see a dowel AND a coachbolt and a split.

Bass bar is intact and attached.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4012/4519124702_f133601e0c.jpg

The single wide centre brace is typical of French basses but has split in several places and will likely need to be replaced. Not looking forward to that one. The back seam has shrunken and there is one crack as shown but other than that the back is in good condition.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2704/4518491261_8b5ef0098b.jpg

First evidence of home repairs – a weird flat fingerboard held on with a bolt. And some pine blocks underneath, nailed in :-(

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4518494171_d198085880.jpg

Neck heel badly damaged, evidence of both professional and home repairs. You can see evidence of a dowel plug on the right near the button.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4007/4518495049_0980811be8.jpg

The ribs have numerous cracks, some repaired, but all the wood is there … and it is lovely wood, as per the back.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4519132676_23c0e6bf46.jpg

Next step is for me to open up the instrument to have a look inside!

Anselm Hauke
05-06-2010, 09:46 AM
hi matthew,

great looking bass.
please keep us informed.

Arnold Schnitzer
05-06-2010, 01:05 PM
Matthew,

Nice find. The shape, wood and workmanship make me think Paul Claudot or a contemporary of his. Would you post the stop length? You are going to need to remove both the top and back to fix everything. Please take this bit of advice learned the hard way; fix the top first, and just before you re-install it, loosen up the back seams at the blocks. Then remove the back only after the top has been re-glued. I see you are in for a neck graft, button graft, neck block replacement, major crack repairs, varnish and more. It helps me, when faced with an overwhelming restoration like yours, to map out the process and break it down into logical steps. Keeps me from scratching my head too much and damaging the few remaining productive follicles. Good luck.

Matthew Tucker
05-06-2010, 05:39 PM
thanks Arnold. I have been as systematic as I can, and throughly breaking down the task into every small step and sequence is the only real way I know of estimating and explaining the cost of such a job for the client.

Yes my plan is to fix the front first. Then the ribs and block, then glue top back to ribs and attack the back. I'm not sure how best to remove the centre brace yet, it looks quite solidly glued in there, but it is split in several places.

On thing I have noticed is is is very neatly made inside; the blocks are the smoothest i have ever seen, it's almost as if the maker glued a veneer across the face of the entire block - but it doesn't seem to be the case. The linings in the C bout back edge are very hefty, too, about 12mm! and very neatly done. The break appears to start at the upper corners or just after the centre brace ends.

String length as far as I can make out is 104.5cm.

LOB 1160
UB 525
LB 675
ribs LB 197
ribs CB 200
ribs at neck 153

Arnold Schnitzer
05-06-2010, 07:09 PM
Matthew, what is the length from the neck joint to the f-hole nicks? As far as removing the cross brace, the only safe way is to carve it out, bit by bit. :(

Ken Smith
05-06-2010, 10:23 PM
thanks Arnold. I have been as systematic as I can, and thoroughly breaking down the task into every small step and sequence is the only real way I know of estimating and explaining the cost of such a job for the client.

Yes my plan is to fix the front first. Then the ribs and block, then glue top back to ribs and attack the back. I'm not sure how best to remove the center brace yet, it looks quite solidly glued in there, but it is split in several places.

On thing I have noticed is is is very neatly made inside; the blocks are the smoothest i have ever seen, it's almost as if the maker glued a veneer across the face of the entire block - but it doesn't seem to be the case. The linings in the C bout back edge are very hefty, too, about 12mm! and very neatly done. The break appears to start at the upper corners or just after the centre brace ends.

String length as far as I can make out is 104.5cm.

LOB 1160
UB 525
LB 675
ribs LB 197
ribs CB 200
ribs at neck 153

Matt, most of these French Cello models I have seen and/or owned averaged from 42+-43" string lengths or about 107 to 109 CMs.

I have heard of smaller ones and seen only one in person but not this type model. Most were what we call 7/8ths models but yours seems to be a 3/4 from your measurements. Not so common in these parts.

From the Scroll and linings it looks a Mirecourt type bass. J.T. Lamy made many of these in all shapes and sizes, 3 and 4 string. If all 4 gears match then it was born as such. In the old 1891 Lamy catalog the 4 string was 6.50 more than a 3-string. Wholesale they started at $43.20. With fine wood and flatback it was $67.20. Claudot was probably more expensive. The good ole days.. Not that I remember them that far back..:eek:

The linings on these are about 4x the mass needed. Might be easier to just replace the linings rather then chisel them down in thickness and then half the height.

Take your time with this like you already mentioned and as Arnold replied. This is an expensive repair in these parts. Probably upwards of $20k from what I see.

Oh, and wavy type Top grain like that I have often seen on Jacquet basses. Keep us informed and post as many pics as you like along the way. My Mougenot is on the bench right now with Jeff Bollbach. Some top reshaping in a mold, bass bar, the back re-done including the center joint, some rib work, neck graft, .. the works and I just played it in concert last season!!:(

Still, a Bass needs what a Bass needs..

Matthew Tucker
05-07-2010, 12:51 AM
Removing the top went OK until I hit these nails in the lower and upper bouts.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4577330266_b35c1d3d76.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4576698495_8afe9805e5.jpg



The bolt holding the neck together came out with a little persuasion.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4576698311_b5ac952a4c.jpg

As I thought, the bolt had several companions!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4577330730_9287f2d6bb.jpg

Top off, time to take a closer look:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4576699199_948f8ca435.jpg

Ugly piece of work.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3314/4577330838_85fd61f7db.jpg

Bottom block area shows previous repairs as you’d expect from a bass of this age.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3356/4576698789_aeb75a6613.jpg

Top block similar

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4576699103_aaa1a03b86.jpg

here’s one of the nastier cracks and edge damage caused by nails and putty! I was interested by what looked like a signature across the linen strip, but once cleaned it appears just a zigzag mark with a pencil. So we know for sure the bass was repaired by Zorro.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4577331018_51076d8906.jpg

Common cracks here. You can see the glue beads of an old white-glue repair on the RHS

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4576699025_b8014c489b.jpg

Matthew Tucker
05-07-2010, 12:51 AM
Here’s the first look inside. Filthy dirty so I vacuumed out the crud and had a close look all over, but I can’t find any makers marks, or stamps. Perhaps when I do a proper cleanup something may appear, but I doubt it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3336/4577332120_f851a0644f.jpg

Inside the top block – can see splits, and yes, a failed dowel repair PLUS a coach-bolt PLUS a whole load of black resinous stuff, probably resorcinol or something like that.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4577331482_56f506f790.jpg

Some successful repairs. Look at how thick the C bout linings are on the right hand side! They are really well made, and the centre brace sits very snugly up against them.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4577331868_7b70355548.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4577331580_3eb872f76f.jpg

And some failed ones that I’ll have to redo. But look at how smooth and well-made the blocks are!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4576699581_c33a0d641e.jpg

These were put in from through the FF holes I think.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4577331668_ae07f100df.jpg


The mortise still has the back of the heel firmly attached. I’m not going to worry too much about this as I have to replace the whole block anyway.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4576699793_680e6da2be.jpg

Altogether, this heel had one wooden dowel from back of heel diagonally down into the block, which obviously failed, and which was followed by a coachbolt through the same hole and down into the block at another angle. I reckon THIS is what split the block. Then another dowel through from front to back, (probably through the button) which obviously failed, so this was followed by a threaded rod right through from button through to the rustic fingerboard!

Ken Smith
05-07-2010, 01:59 AM
Amazing looking wood on that bass. The Flame is outstanding.

Arnold Schnitzer
05-07-2010, 08:48 AM
On most of those, the C-bout back linings are bandsawn poplar or beech. They are extremely wide, the theory being that this would help prevent seam openings. It does work, but we all know that's a bad idea for a couple reasons. You will want to replace those with normal linings. And you might consider a different back bracing scheme. The old "stair step" is reviled for making these basses sound thin and respond slowly. No sleep for you in the year ahead!

Matthew Tucker
05-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Yes well my instinct was to change that single brace to a more "italian" style of cross bracing. I was also wondering whether by doing so the "integrity" of the "french" bass would be compromised. But this is not a museum piece, has no makers label, and is being restored to play.

That's interesting what you say about the bandsawn linings - I was wondering how on earth you could BEND a 12mm strip around that sort of radius! I'm inclined to leave the other linings as they are, though ... I can't see much to be gained by lightening them.

Arnold the stop length is 570mm. What does that tell you?

Ken Smith
05-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Yes well my instinct was to change that single brace to a more "italian" style of cross bracing. I was also wondering whether by doing so the "integrity" of the "french" bass would be compromised. But this is not a museum piece, has no makers label, and is being restored to play.

That's interesting what you say about the bandsawn linings - I was wondering how on earth you could BEND a 12mm strip around that sort of radius! I'm inclined to leave the other linings as they are, though ... I can't see much to be gained by lightening them.

Arnold the stop length is 570mm. What does that tell you?

The Stop length plus the neck length plus an inch tells the approximate string length which would come to about 41.5". The Neck from heel to nut would be about 18" for a D-neck heel.

The Linings should all be replaced. The larger linings inside stiffen the ribs and hinder vibration.

Label or no Label put a normal center Brace and a lower and upper brace as well. I think 3 braces are fine regardless of pedigree. My Mougenot has the same single brace and it's coming out and most likely just what I told you for braces. If you like, my bass will be done before this one and I can tell you what was done, if you like.

Ok? ok..

Ken McKay
05-07-2010, 03:56 PM
Matthew, since you are on the other side of the planet you should have taken the back off first, oh well too late now. :eek::D

Fine looking bass there! Good luck with her.

To carve the back brace out it shouldn't be to difficult. You might be able to get some controlled splitting and remove the big chunks first, then once down to a bit thinner, you can plane it or keep using a sharp thin headed gouge, finger planes and then wet the last slivers with a damp cloth to remove the splinters and clean the glue off.

Craig Regan
05-08-2010, 09:12 AM
Looks like a nice project Matthew. Give it your best!

Brian Gencarelli
05-09-2010, 10:38 AM
Looks like fun! Love the photo essay! Keep it coming- if you have the time, please!

BG

Pino Cazzaniga
05-09-2010, 06:53 PM
Thank you for sharing, Matthew, nice instrument and a lot of work to face!
Did you measured the stop length from the end of the heel or from the upper edge of the front?

Matthew Tucker
05-09-2010, 07:18 PM
Edge of the heel

Matthew Tucker
05-09-2010, 08:33 PM
Here’s a summary of the ironwork I’ve removed from this patient to date:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/4592769199_34092dbb0b.jpg

I had a look to see if the tuners had any identifying marks, but nothing exciting to report. Some of the brass plates are worn at the bearings, but the brass cogs, spindles and the worm gears are perfectly fine. We’ll have to decide whether its worth getting the bearings rebuilt, rebushed or just get new tuners. I’m not a metalworker.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4592767387_8eb5dd6aa2.jpg

Here’s another bit of fun for later :-(

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1312/4593384606_9e462b0026.jpg

I started gluing some of the newer and cleaner cracks first, and cleaning up glueing edges.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/4592732045_f6ffe4344a.jpg

My “in situ” lamp is very useful.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/4593354422_e1bea40297.jpg

Here’s a horrible mess to clear up. Nails didn’t help at all.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1275/4593356050_b7cf54a0ca.jpg

Here’s a closeup of one of the crack edges. The wider part is where the crack sits just below the FFs and the thinner part - about 6-7mm - is the lower bout.
I have had to break the longer cracks right open in order to properly clean the gluing surfaces, which are contaminated with varnish and dust and goo. And what looks like read lead paint in places!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/4593358110_a41ab370a8.jpg

This is a dry run of the first big crack clamping setup. It gets tricky near the FFs where the wood has twisted under bridge pressure. It’s going to be interesting getting this to clamp up tightly.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4592739643_698091734e.jpg

Matthew Tucker
05-16-2010, 08:53 AM
The top is glueing together quite well. This is the first long crack after the turrets are removed and before cleanup and cleating. Looks a mess, but actually the repair is good.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4611671590_9ab6b1ed8f.jpg

This is the view from the other side, there were two parallel cracks but they've come together quite neatly! The wood is beginning to show through too, after some cleaning with warm water.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/4611050731_6304a5153d.jpg

Here's the second long crack gluing. You can see the soundpost crack too; I mark the path of each crack with a chinagraph marker so I know exactly where I have to cleat later. Sometimes the glue line is virtually invisible.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3316/4611062021_e6cc8daa53.jpg

This is one of the previous repairs, done quite well, but I don't like square cleats so I'll probably remove them and replace with diamond ones.
The bass-bar on this bass is exactly parallel with the centre seam.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1187/4611057515_6a483d2975.jpg

This is a view of the soundpost crack before glueing. nasty.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/4611054987_4bccdd210f.jpg

There seems to be some kind of orange primer used at some point; perhaps its a ground?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1037/4611055627_7a53b2cd26.jpg

Craig Regan
05-16-2010, 09:23 AM
Very nice repair work, Matthew! Gluing up cracks on bass tops can be really frustrating, but it looks like you have it under control. Beautiful color on the top too!

Are you going to send a sample of the orange ground to the lab for ****ysis? :)

John Delventhal
08-09-2010, 05:00 PM
Anything new with this?

Matthew Tucker
08-09-2010, 07:50 PM
I have progressed somewhat with the top restoration, but have been overseas for six weeks and so everything ground to a halt. Will resume work on the bass soon and post more pics.

Matthew Tucker
08-28-2010, 07:26 PM
You can see how worn the corners were here:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4519117666_40579fe192.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12734217@N05/4518488153/http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4518488153_499ffb3d23.jpg

After gluing most of the belly cracks (I found a few more) I had a go at repairing the corners with my usual repair wood but i wasn't happy with the result, as the grain really didn't match. The grain on this bass top is wide at the flanks, and wavy. So I tried using the reed-by-reed technique i posted a link to a week ago.

I cut away a part of the damaged wood along the grain line, then glued in a single piece of wide grain spruce. Then trimmed it back, and then added another.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4935444157_f383bcfc0c.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4935444763_e36baf1fe0.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4936034694_69526d9452.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4935445973_ce0748c3f6.jpg

I'm working from the back here but i check the front to make sure the grain lines are reasonably straight. They will be covered in a dark varnish, but with purfling repaired they will look much better.

I addition, these corners - and a lot of the edges - will get a half-edging repair. so what you see above will be covered with perhaps 2-3mm of tighter grained spruce, which will be better for gluing to the blocks!

Matthew Tucker
09-03-2010, 10:10 AM
As it happens ... in case anyone likes to watch.

This is a previous repair to the block area of the lower bout

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4953679745_0d49e9688b.jpg

However, cracks have developed along one side and i don't like the previous repair or the nail holes so I'm removing the old repair and replacing with new wood.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/4954272516_61934b894c.jpg

I've removed all but the last 2mm of the top wood and tapered the edges inwards so that the patch fits tightly and the repair edge doesn't align with any grain. I've lost a bit of the very brittle purfling near the saddle but this was falling away anyway.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4954271794_9fe2b6ebd1.jpg

That's the patch glued in. Still has to be planed flat.

There was a similar problem up the top end. 2" nails through the top had made a nasty mess and a fair bit of wood had come away when removing the top from the block. And a previous repair. You can see my first exploratory gouge to see whether I could do an inlay patch, but nup. Had to go further to make sure the repair was sound.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4935447523_839a378d27.jpg

I had to remove only enough spruce till I got to reasonably sound wood. I filled the nail holes with sawdust and hide glue from the back; i'll do a better repair from the front, later.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/4954269846_f13085c9e3.jpg


here's the patch glued in, waiting to be trimmed back.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4954270486_c8b7c45911.jpg

Matthew Tucker
09-03-2010, 10:19 AM
This is what nails do to the edge! I've planed back the crumbly chipped edge back to clean wood.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/4954274702_98de9e0b5f.jpg

closer, you can see what this spruce is like. Wavy, wide-grained, with a few brittle knotty bits at the flanks like this

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/4954273190_d19bbe86d5.jpg

or this bit of repeated trauma which has pulverised the spruce under the varnish. I have to plane back as far as i dare then do the rest with glue and new spruce edging.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4954276218_b42be995bc.jpg

This new spruce is much nicer to deal with and will properly strengthen the original edges. It will glue better, too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4953682505_ab53ef7bcb.jpg

Ken Smith
09-03-2010, 10:34 AM
Looking good Matt. On those Block area inlays, did you considered a feathered-in patch like a breast patch type (and inner half edging) so as not to create another fault line in the process? There is considerable pressure on the Top at the block areas. Anything that can be done to avoid future trouble would be good. Just like saddle cracks. A tight patch in there like you've shown might act differently than a feathered-in type repair.

Matthew Tucker
09-03-2010, 10:41 AM
You're right, and I did consider it, but in the end I decided that angling the ends inwards as i have done will also spread the stress across a number of grains, much less likely to cause a fault crack as on the Right Hand Side of the picture below. Also the grain of the patch is very slightly offset so it doesn't run parallel with the top grain. Feathering the edges is quite a bit more work.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4953679745_0d49e9688b.jpg

in fact you can see in the original repair, the left hand edge is still quite sound; it is angled. The right-hand edge however is parallel to the grain of the top and right alongside the saddle cutout - recipe for a weak point and a classic saddle crack, which is in fact what happened.

Matthew Tucker
09-05-2010, 08:52 AM
Father's Day here. Bacon and eggs for breakfast ... and a day in the workshop!

---

Here's another reason I feel the half edging is necessary on this plate:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/4960083992_fd4185b42b.jpg

The wood is brittle and knotty in spots all around the edges; this is a weak point, has cracked before, and even to plane it down I need to wet it down and use a very sharp blade.

Here it is after thinning the edge carefully, and a piece of repair spruce that looks like a bear wiped its backside on it. Other than the staining, it's fine repair wood!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4959489941_bf22195d96.jpg

You never have too many clamps.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/4960085664_0cf73a059c.jpg

After the glue has dried the edges are carefully trimmed and blended into the original top shape, and then thinned to the original 8mm. Sounds easy, eh!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4959491433_83842fed12.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4960087018_a0c9a1c13f.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4960087208_81fb3403b7.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4959492419_c0d927156b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/4960088098_82429d6850.jpg

Next job is the soundpost patch.

Eric Hochberg
09-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Question, Matthew. On the 2nd to last pic above, is your new half edging going over a previous half edging job (it looks like the grain doesn't line up under yours)?

Matthew Tucker
09-05-2010, 05:17 PM
No there's no previous half-edging. In blending the new wood with the old, I have planed a thin layer of crud off the old wood so that the inside arch is a smooth transition to the new edge. In fact this bass had a very thick ledge around the edges and in places I have removed the surplus, because it's really not necessary. What you can see from left to right is ... dark old spruce, clean old spruce, shiny new white spruce.

The top has been repaired before, but most of the cleats have just popped off - I suspect because they were glued over the "patina" which isn't as good a glueing surface as a clean wood surface. I was going to leave the very dark old surface wherever I could, and just clean under the cleats, but now that I can see the lovely old spruce underneath I'm considering scraping the whole top back to clean; this would reveal all previous cracks and be much easier to repair now and in the future. But it would involve removing a very thin layer, say 0.3mm, all over.

I'm not intending to regraduate the top; there's nothing wrong with the thicknesses, and its sufficiently thick that removal of a very thin layer won't structurally weaken the top. The amount of wood I would remove would be much less than the additional wood I'll be adding in cleats. What do you think?

Matthew Tucker
09-06-2010, 06:57 AM
Now where was I?

Oh yes ... remember this great big soundpost crack?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/4611054987_8b3e86ab5a.jpg

I glued it up well, but if this isn't reinforced properly the glued-up crack will just bust again when the pressure's on. So, working from the back, I make an oval patch from spruce and trace around it, then start hogging out a bit of a hole.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/4960087712_1e4c1f5d4a.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4960087872_62a06e5e45.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/4963520390_1825c88595.jpg

Mustn't get carried away ...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/4963520500_baf6f5f311.jpg

I like this next pic, because it shows up the depth of the lovely darkening of the wood due to age! The nice brown coloration is full 2-3mm into the wood. Someone who has done this on many more basses that I have (like Arnold, or Ken) could probably date the thing looking at the colour alone.

You can see the original crack entering at the left and a slightly darker area where it is glued. I'm careful about the final shape of the curved bed.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/4962920879_f7fa8da22c.jpg

Next step is to spot glue some guides for the patch to make sure it always goes back exactly in the same spot. There a many ways to do this, and this is the way i'm doing it, this time! The grain of the patch is slightly offset from the grain in the top.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/4962921291_f55c18d187.jpg

Now that the glue is drying, I have to do some work work.

Craig Regan
09-06-2010, 10:55 AM
Question Matthew, Is it possible to see a picture of the edge repair from the front, or edge of the plate? Thanks, Craig

Matthew Tucker
09-07-2010, 07:32 PM
I think this is what you want to see Craig.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/4969413250_b6aa72ecd1.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/4969413386_897aaab474.jpg

I have not worked on shaping the edges yet. And i'm going to have to sweat over the purfling in the corners :-/

Matthew Tucker
09-07-2010, 07:37 PM
The soundpost inlay patch is shaping up well. I'll finish it off and glue it in tonight after the gig.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/4969413732_3c6a0697a0.jpg

Thomas Erickson
09-07-2010, 09:37 PM
This is a great thread; I'm following along like a soap opera. Sorry, daytime drama. :D

Thanks for posting; the photos are great - I wish I had the patience to stop in the middle of doing anything and taking so many photos!

Matthew Tucker
09-08-2010, 01:17 AM
Thanks for all the bass love guys. Unfortunately for me I'll have to give the bass back to the client when it's complete! But fortunately for me, I have a french lodger for the next year or so.

Matthew Tucker
09-09-2010, 08:26 PM
Here's the patch just before gluing in:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/4974911959_09635c29b9.jpg

And here's the patch glued in and trimmed:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/4975523306_08b1ef69a7.jpg

You can see how nicely it fits at the edges. I'm pretty happy how it turned out :-)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/4974912471_1d499fcc1c.jpg

I decided that I *would* shave the thin dark layer off the surface of the wood, at least as far as the bass bar, and I'm glad that i did. These patches look as if they are reinforcing the main centre glue line.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/4974912765_4a28c775a8.jpg

But when the dark layer is removed, it's very clear that there's another previous crack there that I couldn't see before (see next pic). It's a bit of a pity to remove the dirt/patina, but going back to clean wood is going to allow me to make better repairs, and as the purpose is to result in a functional bass, I think the decision is sensible.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/4974913689_b5779624c0.jpg

This is a nice view of repaired top to date.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/4975524092_751425543e.jpg

We've made it from here:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/4975072003_82b18e2763.jpg

to here:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/4975607206_46e1cb4282.jpg

And I really MUST do something about getting a consistent colour-balance in my photos!

Matthew Tucker
09-09-2010, 10:04 PM
No-one ventured an opinion on my question on scraping the dark crud back to clean wood in post #32, so I made a judgement that it would be better to shave a very thin layer off and make sure I make good glue repairs, than leaving it there for the looks only. The wood is still darkened with oxidation, and there is no doubt about the age of the instrument.

Ken Smith
09-09-2010, 11:03 PM
No-one ventured an opinion on my question on scraping the dark crud back to clean wood in post #32, so I made a judgement that it would be better to shave a very thin layer off and make sure I make good glue repairs, than leaving it there for the looks only. The wood is still darkened with oxidation, and there is no doubt about the age of the instrument.

I think that when my basses have been restored, they were cleaned as needed but I don't know if they were scraped. Inside, the color varies. Where it was repaired, it is lighter. Where it wasn't repaired, it remained darker but without the built up dirt over the wood. On one old bass the bassbar was slightly re-shaped. The color shows where it was worked. One of the cross bars removed also shows it was trimmed down a bit half way thru its life by the two shades of color, both old. If re-graduated internally, the bass will always look lighter but that is unavoidable with the wood coming off.

On the aging, you can see how deep the oxidation goes when working on it. Some basses are so old that the wood is dark all the way through. I don't know how to date a bass by its wood color. I guess the oxidation depends on where and how the bass was kept or used.

Keep up the good work.

Steve Alcott
09-09-2010, 11:55 PM
I'm a big fan of practicality-do whatever needs doing to make the repairs solid-as Ken said, there's no doubt of age here. Your photographic documentation is something I wish more luthiers would take time to do; it's educational, and provides a record for future owners and caretakers.

Matthew Tucker
09-10-2010, 12:06 AM
Here you can clearly see what I'm doing.

On the left hand side is the colour of the wood as the bass came to me. Yes it is oxidised but also has traces of old glue and no doubt tobacco smoke and other muck. You can clearly see the white new wood i have added, and then the areas I have scraped back to clean old wood in the foreground. I've left, for the moment, a strip alongside the bass bar. If I decide to leave the bar, I'll leave the dark strip as well. If I decide to replace the bar, I'll probably scrape it back too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4975524438_ed868ff67a.jpg

The bar looks original, is fairly hefty, and is well-attached. It is however glued exactly parallel with the centre joint, which is not modern practice. At the moment I'm inclined to leave it in place, perhaps reshape it a little, but I'll reserve my decision after the top is fully together and I've had a chat with the client.

Bassbar opinions anyone?

Thomas Erickson
09-10-2010, 01:51 AM
If the bassbar seems reasonable in size and shape, and has kept the top in shape - why do anything to it just because it isn't how we might make it today?

Ken Smith
09-10-2010, 03:51 AM
Here you can clearly see what I'm doing.

On the left hand side is the colour of the wood as the bass came to me. Yes it is oxidised but also has traces of old glue and no doubt tobacco smoke and other muck. You can clearly see the white new wood i have added, and then the areas I have scraped back to clean old wood in the foreground. I've left, for the moment, a strip alongside the bass bar. If I decide to leave the bar, I'll leave the dark strip as well. If I decide to replace the bar, I'll probably scrape it back too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4975524438_ed868ff67a.jpg

The bar looks original, is fairly hefty, and is well-attached. It is however glued exactly parallel with the centre joint, which is not modern practice. At the moment I'm inclined to leave it in place, perhaps reshape it a little, but I'll reserve my decision after the top is fully together and I've had a chat with the client.

Bassbar opinions anyone?

Ok, my opinion.. First off, you have the best view over all of us. Is the grain of the Bar identical to the Top or just a Bar put in Parallel to the center line?

Either way, it is not how we put bars in today as you've said. Actually, I did do one Bar myself back in the mis '70s when I was fixing up basses for re-sale and that bass was integral as well. It took me a full 8 hour day to plane out the old bar and chalk fit in a new one and shape it. I even put some linen pockets at the ends and an 'L' shaped linen patch touching the side of the bar and top near a small crack. It came out great.

Take the bar out and put a new one in that fits this bass, size and width that you can be happy with tonally as well. many many of these French basses were made in factories as well. That is why so many of them look alike rather than from a particular maker. I guess no one alive can tell you how this bass sounds as it was obvious un-played and neglected for a lifetime.

These French Vuillaume style Tops are slightly long and wide, especially in the upper bout area where it's shaped like a cello. I am sure you can make and place a better bar in this bass than was done new.

Fit it well like you have done with the other work and do it without any spring in the bar as well. Then you will know what's in the bass rather than do it later. Once the top is off, replacing the bar is a lot less work. My Prescott was a bass with a perfectly arched and well graduated top. The bar was as old as it was a 4-string bass. It was left in but re-shaped. The old straight set bar shadow was still visible. Also, on my old 4/4 Gamba bass it had a secondary bar as well but was short, narrow and shallow. It looked like a Gut string bar possibly for 3-strings, maybe 4 but was for Gut. The Top shaping/arch was again perfect like with the Prescott bass. Both basses sounded fantastic and looked healthy after the restoration and strung with steel strings and C extension. A healthy top also helps.

Replace the bar with one you feel certain about.

Thomas Erickson
09-10-2010, 05:24 AM
Ken -

So you assume that if the bar is left as-is, the top will sink under the tension of modern strings? And that ultimately it is better to go ahead and fit a new, stronger bar?

Ken Smith
09-10-2010, 05:30 AM
Ken -

So you assume that if the bar is left as-is, the top will sink under the tension of modern strings? And that ultimately it is better to go ahead and fit a new, stronger bar?

No, I don't assume that BUT, if the bar is angled more outwards in the lower bout it will spread the sound much better. The current Bar whether integral or not should be replaced while the bass is apart. This is the best and easiest time to do it. Why take the chance?

Thomas Erickson
09-10-2010, 05:51 AM
I guess no one alive can tell you how this bass sounds

I don't know why you are doing that. Usually in a restoration of an old bass the oxidation is left in place to show its age. Cleaning the surface of the old wood is common but sanding or scraping doesn't make sense. In fact, if this were my Bass, I would be quite angry about it. Clean, don't scrape away wood. If re-graduation, I can understand. If not, leave it be.

if the bar is angled more outwards in the lower bout it will spread the sound much better. The current Bar whether integral or not should be replaced while the bass is apart. This is the best and easiest time to do it. Why take the chance?

Seems to me like if we don't know what the bass sounds like, are attempting to maintain as much originality as possible in a functional instrument, and the original parts haven't compromised the health thus far, than that replacing them might be presumptuous and destructive. Just saying. I suppose it is *just* a bassbar though. ;)

Matthew Tucker
09-10-2010, 05:53 AM
Seems to me like if we don't know what the bass sounds like, are attempting to maintain as much originality as possible in a functional instrument ...

The problem I have with that approach is the uncertainty of what it sounded like!! The owner and I want a bass that sounds killer, not just a beautiful piece of "original" furniture. So I have to make a few judgements along the way as to how to achieve that.

It's not an integral bar, it's glued in, and the evidence for that is ... glue!

It DID have original gut strings on it, I doubt if it has ever seen steels.

One of the reasons we don't fit bars parallel to the top grain is that doing so is asking for a stress crack along the edge of the bar if the top takes a knock.

I think the other reason is that Strad did it in his violins and everyone copied that!

its a really nice-looking bar but as Ken said I have no idea what the bass sounded like with it so i have no idea if it worked. i'm guessing it did, for gut strings at least.

I don't have to make a decision any time soon. i'm going to do some chladni resonance testing on the top this weekend before i cleat it. Not sure if that will tell me anything, but it might colour my hunches...

thanks for the feedback. it's not a science.

Arnold Schnitzer
09-10-2010, 08:15 AM
That bass needs a new bass bar, IMHO. Removing the old bar will also allow you to tweak the graduations beneath it. Having worked on many old French basses like yours, I can state with relative certainty that the top table is too thick for a good, strong tone. The absolutists out there will hate what I've just stated, but as you've said, the owner wants a killer bass, not a decent one.

Brian Glassman
09-10-2010, 09:38 AM
Just discovered this thread. Fascinating to see a restoration and process like this in this kind of detail! Matt, you & Arnold and the handful of other luthiers that have these rare skills and knowledge are true magicians. Thanks for sharing!

Nice to see you back, Wayne!

Bri

John Leach
09-10-2010, 09:32 PM
Matt, you & Arnold and the handful of other luthiers that have these rare skills and knowledge are true magicians. Thanks for sharing!


+1 I check this thread every evening.



Thanks.

John

Matthew Tucker
09-10-2010, 09:39 PM
:) :cool: :confused: ;)

33.5Hz
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/4977859369_aa68689383.jpg

45Hz
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/4978468044_aafabc0731.jpg

77Hz
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4153/4977859475_f19c7a51d9.jpg

98Hz
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/4977859833_3bbf036b3e.jpg

119Hz
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/4978468150_e46d63befc.jpg

The plate weighs in at 1908g.

Matthew Tucker
09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
By the way, i am but Arnold's humble antipodean apprentice ...

Ken McKay
09-10-2010, 10:52 PM
Matthew, good work on the restoration.

According to my records that plate is quite heavy and took too much viagra.

If I had it here I would start by trying to thin down the tail area. As a guide I would try to close the ring mode there. Similar to your Siriente iirc.

And then I would take the bar down quite a bit until the sand bounces more toward it on the bar side (mode 2).

Ken McKay
09-10-2010, 11:00 PM
By taking the bar down I mean at each end, a big scooping taper. You know.

Can't hurt much by doing this, you can always make a new bar.

Pino Cazzaniga
09-12-2010, 06:45 AM
Matt,
to my eye that bar looks short and stiff.
I like more longer ones, thinner at the ends and with double countercurve.
Also, I can't see the width from the pics, but it seem to be on the huge side. The wider I made was maybe 23mm, but my average is 21mm.
But.... the bar may be short if ends are glued on a thick area of the plate.
And, if the middle is thick, the bar may be low in height at the F holes area, with less countercurve.
About the "parallel" issue, it looks wrong.
A thing to consider is how the grain runs on the plate.
I can't see it from here, but if the grain is not parallel to the centre line maybe one has to put the bar more parallel than usual to the centre line just to avoid being parallel to the grain, that is dangerous especially at the lower part.
Just ideas for the new bar if you will decide to make one (you are the best judge for it as the instrument is in your hands).
My congratulations for the work you are doing, and thanks for this thread, I'm checking it any time I visit the forum.

Matthew Tucker
09-12-2010, 07:48 AM
Yes it is a tree trunk, 800mm x 24mm and 44mm high in the centre. After walking around the thing all weekend I'm pretty much decided to replace it, but I might have a little fun with it on the way down. I did think that if only I'd had more foresight, I could have used the wood from the bass bar for those corner repairs ... the grain is almost wide enough at one end!

Thomas Erickson
09-12-2010, 08:09 AM
About the "parallel" issue, it looks wrong.
A thing to consider is how the grain runs on the plate.
I can't see it from here, but if the grain is not parallel to the centre line maybe one has to put the bar more parallel than usual to the centre line just to avoid being parallel to the grain, that is dangerous especially at the lower part.


Interesting.

Matthew Tucker
09-12-2010, 09:06 AM
The grain is parallel with the centre joint, and the bass bar is parallel with that. Dangerous, as you state!

Ken Smith
09-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Thanks Brian-it's good to be back to my obsessive compulsive vicious cyclical track i have from the shop to the kitchen, to the computer---I just returned from playing one of those week-end concerts with 10hours of rehearsals, and the concert all packed into 2 days, I feel like I just completed an all day one-man hog-killing-----don't care if I ever again leave my double bass triagle. Thanks Ken for taking me back- I'll try to behave myself-

Matthew, If you do remove the bar and, as Arnold says, tweak the graduation- careful to not overdo it on the amount of wood that you remove. Now, how would I know that one can overdo it?

I would be interested in hearing how others protect the top from being damaged while doing the graduation or while removing a bar- As I think I mentioned before-I tape the entire finish side of the top with a layer of painters tape and then on top of that a layer of duct tape-then clamp the top at each end in a mould made with plaster for the particular top that I am working on.
It is easy to cause a crack when the wood is only a few MMs thick and some of it is old, dry and even a little brittle.

Wayne, maybe we should ask Matt to post the graduations here penciling them on the top so we can see what's what as well as the measurements of the Top in length and bout widths. What might work for one bass may not for another. The strength of the wood, condition, width, length all come into account here. When my Mougenot was opened I asked Jeff Bollbach if the Top needed any correcting as it did seem thick to me, especially from the outer F-hole edges. He replied it was fine and for a Bass this size, the thicknesses are good.

It is easy to take away wood. It is impossible to put the same wood back. Mane of the basses I have had in restoration over the years needed some breast patching to put wood back in from over re-graduating. Less of the basses I put thru shops to restore needed re-graduating or thinning as some call it.

If the bass is left thick (who is to really say if?), then no harm will be done to the bass. If thinned too much, the Top can cave in and crack, needing a huge restoration of re-shaping, crack repairs and breast patches. All because of someones over zealous so called corrections.

Maybe it's like a hair cut. Cut is as short as you like but leave the ears..:eek:

Funny thing about that (soory Matt for the de-rail) when I've gone for a hair cut at the mall. They ask if I wanna request anyone (for a small fee), and I say, "someone who's done it before".. lol

Matthew Tucker
09-12-2010, 05:19 PM
Wayne, maybe we should ask Matt to post the graduations here ...

Er, ask all you like, but I'm not going to do THAT! I don't mind feedback at all, and I like discussing different approaches and thoughts on this sort of job, but it certainly won't be a restoration by committee!!:D

Arnold Schnitzer
09-12-2010, 05:54 PM
I would be interested in hearing how others protect the top from being damaged while doing the graduation or while removing a bar- As I think I mentioned before-I tape the entire finish side of the top with a layer of painters tape and then on top of that a layer of duct tape-then clamp the top at each end in a mould made with plaster for the particular top that I am working on.
It is easy to cause a crack when the wood is only a few MMs thick and some of it is old, dry and even a little brittle.
I simply suspend the top upside-down in a perimeter frame. No tape, no "protection" whatsoever. I've yet to crack a top working this way. Sharp tools require no bearing down onto the surface. Of course, if you are working on an old bass with existing cracks, they need to first be adequately glued up, otherwise you could re-open them.

Thomas Erickson
09-12-2010, 06:52 PM
On the subject of "dangerous" bass bars -

If, as in this case, a grain-parallel bar has yet to encourage a crack, is there really much justification for assuming that it will in the future, left as is? I mean sure, it makes sense to place a new bar across the grain, but I'm not seeing a real reason to replace an otherwise sound bar for this reason.

Matthew Tucker
09-12-2010, 07:33 PM
Well if the top is overly thick under the bar, and/or the bar is overly heavy and stiff, then you will get a strong top a that spot, no matter what orientation the grain. But this is not necessarily a recipe for a responsive top and optimum sound. Also, this top was NOT intact - as you can see from the earlier pics it was seriously cracked in at least a dozen places; perhaps if the top was more flexible (thickness, arching shape, bar shape) it would not have cracked in that way. Perhaps the strength of the top around the bar itself encouraged cracks to form elsewhere? Perhaps, perhaps not ... who knows? All I know for sure is that the top is quite a bit heavier and less flexible than usual, and the bass bar is also very hefty and stiff. The original bar is intact, sure, but there's no evidence that it is "otherwise sound" if you measure that by how well it performs. So its a matter of using intuition to decide how to achieve the right balance of flex and strength.

@wayne - I think if you are making a plaster mould for each top you work on you must have a very big workshop and be built like a lumberjack! I've never needed to make a full top plaster mould - i'd be interested to see some pics of your setup.

I just have the top sitting in an MDF cutout cradle with no sharp edges and clamped in various ways. I don't use any protection on the top either, the MDF is softer than the wood and varnish, but if I feel the top needs any special support I'll use a smallish sandbag underneath. I'd really hesitate to use any kind of tape on the finish - even painter's tape - imagine the feeling you'd get if the solvents in the adhesive reacted with the varnish and the finish came off with the tape :eek: No thanks.

Matthew Tucker
09-20-2010, 08:44 AM
On the weekend I bit the bullet and decided, after a chat with the owner, to remove the bass bar. I had some assistance from my nephew Luke who has helped me on some of my other builds.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5008180098_80c7ac7e3b.jpg

We managed to recuperate some of the original bar to use as repair wood as the timber matches the top in colour and grain width.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/5007571071_7046c0702b.jpg

After removal the top weighs 1665g.`

Matthew Tucker
09-20-2010, 08:46 AM
While this was going on I started on making some purfling for the corner repairs.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5008091668_154aa6f272.jpg

I discovered that the original purfling is made of a pinkish wood, not white. I'm guessing this is some kind of fruit wood like pear or cherry, but not sure what. It's quite hard. I wonder if ID-ing this might help narrow down the bass's origin?

I had to hunt through my pile to find something that might match.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5007483525_85ae10567a.jpg

The strips are planed down with my large smoother

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5008091788_21141d155f.jpg

then taken down to the final thickness with my new HNT Gordon smoother with the blade setup as a scraper.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5007482031_3515244b73.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5008091170_f64a35c868.jpg

I have made a special jig for bending the purfling to roughly the right shape. sort of a mini fox-bender. I use a heat-gun for heat.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5007482175_3517f7bc9b.jpg

I've tried both PVA and hide glue; in the end, for this pre-bent stuff, the hide glue worked better.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5007482445_b0fc4a7186.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/5007571243_5f3e2a9e17.jpg

After the glue is dry I cut the bent laminate into strips

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5007482561_40cf204150.jpg

neat, huh?

Thomas Erickson
09-21-2010, 01:58 AM
Nice jig.

Do you heat the strips first and then put them in, or apply heat while bending? It looks like they're dry, right?

Matthew Tucker
09-21-2010, 02:15 AM
Stick 'em in the jig, heat with the gun and bend when hot. This gets them roughly bent. Then i take 'em out of the jig, slop on the glue, add a strip of non-stick "cooking paper" and clamp the lot in the jig until the glue sets.

Matthew Tucker
09-26-2010, 12:25 AM
Not much to report this weekend, except that the top is now 1663g after removal of the bass bar. The bar was therefore 245g.

I did some more hocus pocus chladni measurements on the top because I can.

Have a look at this video (unfortunately we can't embed video on this site yet) to see how the first mode looks in stop-motion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbpC_0E7wM

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5025101596_5420da6ac7.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5024537183_d4fe91c066.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5025102926_4f8b2a3126.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5024490227_9de4402643.jpg

Nathan Parker
09-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Out of ignorant curiosity, what does vibrating the top with sand in it tell you? You have my interest very piqued, and I really appreciate all the pictures and updates in this thread. I love seeing all the details and effort that go into this. Kudos.

Matthew Tucker
09-26-2010, 04:37 PM
it just tells me the frequency of the resonant modes of that top. Combined with the weight, it can give a numerical value for stiffness. Sometimes it can reveal asymmetries in stiffness. But it tells me no more about the tone of the bass than other measurements such as the width of the plates. For the moment it is just another measurement to keep track of and compare with other basses, but its fun to do and looks cool.

Nathan Parker
09-26-2010, 06:15 PM
It does look cool, that is for sure. So, ideally, would all the sand be symmetrical? I see that it mostly is, except at one frequency were there is a slight variance. It is pretty incredible the different patterns it forms based on frequency of vibration. How consistent are the results? If you were to do the same test back to back, are the results identical?

Sorry for all the questions, just very curious.

Matthew Tucker
09-26-2010, 07:39 PM
yes same tests back to back are identical if nothing else changes. I suppose if you take the view that symmetrical plates are ideal or necessary (although there's no evidence that this is the case) then symmetrical shapes would indicate this.

My ideal is to get the tea-leaf patterns looking as much like Yosemite Sam as possible. Yosemite Sam is the holy grail of chladni enthusiasts ... I have a long way to go.

Ken Smith
09-26-2010, 08:53 PM
yes same tests back to back are identical if nothing else changes. I suppose if you take the view that symmetrical plates are ideal or necessary (although there's no evidence that this is the case) then symmetrical shapes would indicate this.

My ideal is to get the tea-leaf patterns looking as much like Yosemite Sam as possible. Yosemite Sam is the holy grail of chladni enthusiasts ... I have a long way to go.

If you get what you call Yosemite Sam, what does that mean? Is this something a maker shoots for or an accident hoping to happen?

Doesn't that top need some cleats for all the cracks you glued up so far? How will Sam react to that?

Have fun..

Matthew Tucker
09-26-2010, 10:35 PM
Yosemite Sam is just me being silly, Ken. For me it is JUST another measure of the top and doesn't really give any more clues about what must be done than does the distance between the FFs or the size of the endpin block or the width of the lower bout. Since I have the bass top off I can make these measurements and see what happens when i remove wood where I think it needs to be removed. I'll also be able to compare what happens when I cleat the cracks, and when I add the new bass bar.

The patterns are cool but are only a flag to show that the particular resonance mode has been met. I don't know enough about the shape to be able to draw any conclusions. And there are too many variables ... such as the arching shape for starters. The most interesting number I think is the frequency of vibration which combined with the weight of the plate is a measure of stiffness. If, after I do everything and re-cleat and replace the bass bar, the modes appear at the same frequencies, I can - I think - assume that the plate is fairly consistent with how it started out. If on the other hand, the frequencies are lower, but the weight is the same, this will show me that what I have done has increased the flexibility of the plate. I can make those sorts of observations.

I could - and will - also flex the plates with my fingers, tap them etc - and you DO get a lot of tactile feedback when you are working on the plates with the planes and scrapers. But this is more subjective.

Nothing here, unfortunately, will tell me whether I've done enough ... or gone too far!

See where I'm coming from? I'm not looking for a magic pill; it would be nice in a way if we could ****yse this work scientifically but I don't think this is at all easy - at the end of the day a luthier's work a series of educated hunches and generalisations. Some people might think that this sort of mucking around is a waste of time but for me, the more information I have to inform my instincts, the better.

Thomas Erickson
09-27-2010, 05:45 AM
I wonder if there is a comparable system for testing resonance of a plate on a complete instrument. Seems like testing the plate on its own, then as part of the complete assembly, and finally under tension would give a lot of insight that could be applied not only that instrument but to making new ones and improving older ones.

Craig Regan
09-27-2010, 05:50 AM
So... Is the plan to re graduate, then put the bass bar and cleats back in? Or is it a combination of installing and graduating as you go?

Also... how do you keep from losing your crack locations?

Thomas Erickson
09-27-2010, 06:04 AM
So... Is the plan to re graduate, then put the bass bar and cleats back in? Or is it a combination of installing and graduating as you go?

Also... how do you keep from losing your crack locations?

You can't really remove wood from under the bass bar or cleats... :D

I think he said further up the thread that he uses a grease pencil or something to mark out the cracks...

Matthew Tucker
09-27-2010, 07:46 AM
The procedure is to get the top thicknesses right first, then add the bass bar and cleats. It's much easier to track the cracks now that the surface is mostly clean wood.

Thomas here are SOOO many variables I really don't think anyone could live long enough to repeat what Carleen Hutchins did in her lifetime and come up with something new. I think that measuring the resonance of a free plate is a completely different thing to measuring an assembled instrument - no comparisons can be made because they are two different things. It would not be hard to measure an assembled instrument I suppose, but then it would be very complicated to make any adjustments. I'm not about to go there!

Steve Alcott
10-17-2010, 10:37 AM
Any progress? I've really been fascinated by this project.

Matthew Tucker
10-17-2010, 07:11 PM
A bit of progress with cleating the top. There are many ways of doing this, but I prefer long diamond cleats because they make most sense to me; maximum glue contact and flexibility and offset grain. They are a bit tricky to trim without nicking the top, but I've done enough now to be able to do it fairly quickly.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5091354430_91668afdca.jpg

Very sharp blade essential!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5091353002_58f37e036b.jpg

Some more trimming will be done before I'm happy. Although this is work that only the angels will get to see I like to make sure it's done neatly.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5091353384_b9fddb2e2e.jpg


I might add a few more cleats later or some linen strips depending on how I feel.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5091353722_1b50cd921c.jpg

Here for comparison:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4576699199_948f8ca435.jpg

And here's a video of how i do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOayNxDvuPM

Thomas Erickson
10-18-2010, 05:06 PM
Nice - thanks for keeping us posted.

That's a beastly looking chisel! ;)

Matthew Tucker
10-18-2010, 07:07 PM
The chisel is the one I use for mortising a neck block, and I like its weight and the fact that it holds a razor edge really well. Not sure it's perfect for the job though - I'd be interested to see what other luthiers use for this task. I have a feeling that a paring chisel with a short wide blade would be even better.

Thomas Erickson
10-18-2010, 07:50 PM
Personally I think a long, well balanced paring chisel would probably be choice; but like most things whatever is comfortable and sharp is going to work best, even if it isn't by the textbook... ;)

Matthew Tucker
11-09-2010, 03:42 PM
Back to purfling repairs. Here are the main tools I use:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1311/5162308258_c4a891fcc2.jpg

The job is exceedingly tedious and performed under a powerful magnifier; the original purfling is very brittle and has to be cut back to a suitable point, then the new beesting is cut following the original purfling lines ... and guessing a bit too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/5162308734_b623f41460.jpg

This is the first one I did, and I changed the way I do the scarf joints after this one. But it's OK.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1339/5161703619_ed029ee52c.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5162308422_795076d882.jpg

This is more like dentistry than luthiery!

It is difficult to match the edges of the purfling invisibly, even using a scarf joint. In this next corner I decided to make the joint in the purfling coincide with the grain lines; one is almost a butt, the other is a longish scarf.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1252/5162520604_edb392fcc9.jpg

I think, under varnish, all these repairs will be virtually invisible.

Ah the varnish. How the hell am I going to save the varnish? That's another problem.

AndrewHamilton
11-24-2010, 02:24 AM
I've been following closely to your project. I think after all this work anyone would be lucky to have this instrument... Looks beautiful. :o

Matthew Tucker
12-02-2010, 07:02 AM
Its been a bit slow progress on this bass, as I've had a bunch of repair work on lately. However, the cleating is now finished and I've started to fit the bar.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/5224607281_171d2d52e4_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5206/5225201890_16a0786561_z.jpg

Ruben E garcia
12-20-2010, 08:21 AM
This is what nails do to the edge! I've planed back the crumbly chipped edge back to clean wood.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/4954274702_98de9e0b5f.jpg

closer, you can see what this spruce is like. Wavy, wide-grained, with a few brittle knotty bits at the flanks like this

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/4954273190_d19bbe86d5.jpg

or this bit of repeated trauma which has pulverised the spruce under the varnish. I have to plane back as far as i dare then do the rest with glue and new spruce edging.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4954276218_b42be995bc.jpg

This new spruce is much nicer to deal with and will properly strengthen the original edges. It will glue better, too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4953682505_ab53ef7bcb.jpg
Hi Matt thank you for this Visual Tutorial It helps a lot, I need to do the same on my restoration, but to be honest It keeps me awake at night... there is any advise about it that I should know, before doing something like this?

Matthew Tucker
01-06-2011, 08:44 PM
Well, this hunk of timber needs to be replaced. It's going to be a time consuming and messy job pulling it out without damaging anything. I'm going to try to steam it all apart but if this gets too tricky I'll probably end up cutting it out.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5331907290_28a0fbd511.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/12734217@N05/5331907290/)http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/5331907534_f7c2c7186f.jpg

I found a bit more of the original varnish under a lot of dirt; it gives me the original colour, but there's no chance of recovering any of it on the ribs.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5008/5331296039_a0ace578a5.jpg

found some more metalwork holding the ribs on. Glad I found these before my blades did.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5241/5331907622_5a777a6d49.jpg

And yet MORE Metalwork ...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5331295673_3b00d9e2c7.jpg

This is the wonderful screw I'm going to keep as a trophy! Pretty amazing that another hole was drilled right through the shank for the bolt that I originally extracted from the back of the button!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5331907358_aa94e1570b.jpg

Loosening the neck block at the back seam. Look at all that stickiness:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5331295935_96b6b19f6b.jpg

Previous button repair came away. Some of it has been repaired with spruce, and there's a fair whack of putty in there too. I'm going to have to restore the whole button from scratch.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5169/5331907844_3c59c6dd18.jpg

I got the old neck heel out sans trop de dĆ©gĆ¢ts. The tear you can see on the right is the old spruce block that will be replaced entirely. Look at that lovely crack, subject to so much metalwork and dowelling in its lifetime!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5331907942_48b60a7cc1.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5090/5331908310_5ff2bcd838.jpg

Michael Nelson
01-09-2011, 03:19 PM
I'm not a luthier, but I am REALLY enjoying this article. I am amazed at the stuff qualified people can tackle!

Eric Swanson
01-10-2011, 06:26 AM
+1. On the other hand, I am continually dismayed by the harm less-than-fully-qualified people can cause.

I look at that screw, with the hole drilled through it, and at the damage. I think of something a coworker used to say, grimly, when surveying the aftermath of others' messy efforts, "Men have been here before us. Men did this."

Thank you, Matthew, for sharing all of this.

Thomas Erickson
01-10-2011, 06:55 AM
+1. On the other hand, I am continually dismayed by the harm less-than-fully-qualified people can cause.

I look at that screw, with the hole drilled through it, and at the damage. I think of something a coworker used to say, grimly, when surveying the aftermath of others' messy efforts, "Men have been here before us. Men did this."

Thank you, Matthew, for sharing all of this.

All true. But at the same time I'm continually intrigued, enlightened and amused by the things I see in these old basses - often more so than in the making of the original instrument! For me, it's part of what makes basses particularly interesting as compared with the other strings. ;)

Thanks Matthew for the update - looking good!

Matthew Tucker
01-10-2011, 07:02 AM
I'm not quite sure what "qualified" means, actually. I have never apprenticed with anybody nor done any courses in luthiery let alone carpentry. However, I do seek out and - sponge-like - absorb knowledge, filter it, and store it away to use later in my own concoctions. And I love what I do.

Actually i suspect that many of the repairs on this bass, including the metalwork, were done by "qualified" luthiers. The holes were drilled accurately, the dowelling fit properly, certainly the screw through the heel was done neatly and finished with a proper wooden plug. I'm less impressed with the bolt through the button and the damage that caused to the button area. The nails around the rim ... well yes, that's an amateur repair.

I think the problem with this bass may have been the choice of wood for the top block. Probably not quite dry enough and too close to the centre of the trunk; I suspect it cracked fairly early in the bass's life and everything since, the wobbly neck, the cracks in the top and ribs, the open seams, etc etc came about as a consequence.
The only repair worth doing was a block replacement and that didn't happen; everything else was bound to fail at some point or other.

I'm considering a laminated top block, and since I'm going to need to rebuild the neck/scroll from scratch or do a scroll graft, we may opt for a bolt-on neck as I have done for my other basses.

Steve Alcott
01-11-2011, 01:41 PM
Thanks for the continuing updates on this project. I for one find it extremely interesting and informative. I've been around basses for 40+ years and have glued the odd seam, run some glue into a crack, filed nut and bridge slots-the sort of thing any bass owner should be able to do. A major restoration like this is a lesson in patience, planning, and most of all, attention to the smallest details. I eagerly await the next installment in the saga.

Matthew Tucker
01-12-2011, 07:50 PM
Very small update to complete the picture - here's another shot of the original block with the grain lines highlighted. You can clearly see how it cracked, and why choice of the right wood for even the humble internal blocks is important for the longevity of a bass!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5289/5350160113_afb1f6b667.jpg

Ken Smith
01-12-2011, 08:40 PM
Matt, I would like to point out that I have seen a few Basses with 2 piece blocks across the width as well as Laminated Blocks in the depth. Also, a few of my Basses that were restored had an added piece laminated for the depth to either deepen the neck set and strengthen the bottom of the block or due to the block being cut from the top to shorten the bass.

My Hart had it's original Blocks inside it when it was opened up. The upper and lower blocks were two pieced Pine. It seems that this was either done due to a shortage of materials or perhaps a method for stability. We will never know the actual 'why' these things were done in the past but if they survived 180 years, I think they got it right.

In the case of this French Bass you are working on which looks to be a Mirecourt production rather then a makers individual single made bass, Blocks and other materials were used as they were supplied to the workers. I would assume that if the part was bad in the beginning, it would be tossed and not used but foresight in which what might survive the future or not was not a decision of a single worker.

Also, from the looks of the condition of this bass being left alone for so long, dryness and stress combined can easily split any wide straight grained piece of wood like this Block. It can also split from the other pieces of wood glued to it as the weakest link is what usually gives. So, if you think this Bass needs some extra strength in the block material itself, two pieces glued of slightly different grain might help. Just my 2 cents, or 3 or 4..;)

Keep up the good work. I bet you can't wait for the next big job to walk into your shop huh?..lol

Matthew Tucker
01-12-2011, 09:34 PM
Well funny you should say that. Here's the new block all glued up

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5350984608_2bb86134c0.jpg

grain runs laterally across the bottom and vertically around the mortise. I'm still not 100% sure I'll use this one though. have to cogitate a bit.

The next big job, I hope, is a new bass from scratch based on a Lott Sr pattern

Ken Smith
01-12-2011, 11:21 PM
Well funny you should say that. Here's the new block all glued up

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5350984608_2bb86134c0.jpg

grain runs laterally across the bottom and vertically around the mortise. I'm still not 100% sure I'll use this one though. have to cogitate a bit.

The next big job, I hope, is a new bass from scratch based on a Lott Sr pattern

Well, I have played a Lott a few years back as it was left with me for a possible trade. Despite the severely restored condition (mainly the top) and having a later replaced scroll, I was sorry to see it go back to the owner. It was a sweet bass.

On the new Block, I can't see the grain of the upper piece but looks like it will do the Job, I would yeild the remainder of my time on this to Arnold who has seen more Blocks than I played with as a child..:D

Hey, on Lott Snr. there was new information published about him back in 1998. J.Lott Snr. was actually his father who was not a Luthier. J.F. Lott the Luthier (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=403) was actually born in London (1776) and not in Germany as previously believed. Mis-information like this happens when the records searched come up with 2 people of the same name.The same thing happened with John Hart whose father of the same name was a Gunsmith and the Luther was erroneously thought to have opened a Gun Shop which was actually the Father who did. The son, John Thomas Hart, founder of Hart & Sons was given space in his Fathers shop a few years after the death of his master Samuel Gilkes. That is one of the published errors I believe due to father and son having the same name like with Lott who also had a son of the exact same name (b.1805) but thankfully with 3 John Lott's they called him Jack as a nick name, thankfully.:)

Matthew Tucker
01-13-2011, 12:57 AM
Wayne - I'm not criticising anyone - who am I to know why something was done all those years ago!

The triangular block at the bottom is a bit of pine spot-glued on for clamping. I'll split it off when the ribs are clamped up.

Ken, If John Lott the luthier had a son called John, then there would be TWO John Lott Seniors in the mix! There sure are a Lott of them :)

Matthew Tucker
01-13-2011, 04:26 AM
Hey, on Lott Snr. there was new information published about him back in 1998. J.Lott Snr. was actually his father who was not a Luthier. J.F. Lott the Luthier (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=403) was actually born in London (1776) and not in Germany as previously believed. Mis-information like this happens when the records searched come up with 2 people of the same name.

According to the guys at contrabass.co.uk John Lott I born 1776 met BS Fendt 1 and got a job in Dodd's shop making cellos and basses. So according to that account the Senior WAS a luthier.

Hi son John (jack) Lott II (b 1814) was the colourful character who was also a luthier who learnt his stuff from his father, then later in Richard Davis's shop, and then later went on to be elephant trainer and rascal, and then luthier again expert with a reputation as expert copyist. I read a great anecdote where J Lott II made two violins, "dirtied them up" a little, put them in a couple of old cases and sold them at market for 60 pounds each. This really pissed his father off, who hated the false antiquing tricks, so he (J Lott I) made two beautiful new violins, took them to the same market ... and couldn't sell them. Thus began the parting of their ways ...

Thomas Martin's article says that John Lott II worked in Dodd & Metzler's shop on an outwork basis. It appears that both father and son worked in the same Shop.

In the end it doesn't really matter though for me who designed the "Lott" bass I wat to build. It has lovely proportions and those big blunt-ended corner blocks.

Amund Lie
01-13-2011, 07:37 AM
Just want to thank you for this thread. It really inspires me to see and read all of this. Excellent work!

Greetings from Norway.

-Amund

Ken Smith
01-13-2011, 08:15 AM
According to the guys at contrabass.co.uk John Lott I born 1776 met BS Fendt 1 and got a job in Dodd's shop making cellos and basses. So according to that account the Senior WAS a luthier.

Hi son John (jack) Lott II (b 1814) was the colourful character who was also a luthier who learnt his stuff from his father, then later in Richard Davis's shop, and then later went on to be elephant trainer and rascal, and then luthier again expert with a reputation as expert copyist. I read a great anecdote where J Lott II made two violins, "dirtied them up" a little, put them in a couple of old cases and sold them at market for 60 pounds each. This really pissed his father off, who hated the false antiquing tricks, so he (J Lott I) made two beautiful new violins, took them to the same market ... and couldn't sell them. Thus began the parting of their ways ...

Thomas Martin's article says that John Lott II worked in Dodd & Metzler's shop on an outwork basis. It appears that both father and son worked in the same Shop.

In the end it doesn't really matter though for me who designed the "Lott" bass I wat to build. It has lovely proportions and those big blunt-ended corner blocks.

Ok, you have been reading a bit, That's a good thing, First off, the blunt/squared corners are all basses made by Lott snr. (b.1776 in London) but were actually made for the shop of Thomas Dodd and are known as Dodd Basses made by Lott, if you wanna break it down. Yes, Bernhard Fendt Srn. trained him in the Dodd shop.

I just replied to you on the Lott thread (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?p=21520#post21520) as well. See what's there as it's on topic about Lott.

Once again, there are actually 3/three John Lott's. The eldest married in London in 1775, not a Luthier and possibly (POSSIBLY) came from Germany and was a furniture/cabinet/chair makers or whatever. @nd was the son born J.F. Lott in 1776 and then 3rd, HIS son J'F' Lott Jnr. aka Jack Lott. On the Snr./Jnr. thing if anyone cares, the same thing happened with William Forster. The first Maker in London was William II but was known as Old Forster. His father, also William Forster was a Violin maker in Brampton and never worked in London. William Forster III was called Young Forster and employed Samuel Gilkes. Young F' had two sons, William IV (no other title) and the youngest was Simon Andrew who was trained by IV and Gilkes according to even S.A himself in his own book written decades later.

So, this Snr, Jnr type stuff gets confusing BUT, it's good to know what you are actually making a copy of especially is that person did not make basses by trade. Sorry for the rant..
\Oh, and the British refer to J.F. Lott the bass maker from Dodd as 'Grandfather Lott' to make it even more confusing. Perhaps he was to some the Grandfather of the flat back Maggini style/model London bass, maybe. Panormo made them with roundbacks so that's the main difference besides doing it there 10 years before Lott ever touched a bass.

Adrian Levi
01-13-2011, 09:45 AM
Matt, I would like to point out that I have seen a few Basses with 2 piece blocks across the width as well as Laminated Blocks in the depth. Also, a few of my Basses that were restored had an added piece laminated for the depth to either deepen the neck set and strengthen the bottom of the block or due to the block being cut from the top to shorten the bass.

My Hart had it's original Blocks inside it when it was opened up. The upper and lower blocks were two pieced Pine. It seems that this was either done due to a shortage of materials or perhaps a method for stability. We will never know the actual 'why' these things were done in the past but if they survived 180 years, I think they got it right.

In the case of this French Bass you are working on which looks to be a Mirecourt production rather then a makers individual single made bass, Blocks and other materials were used as they were supplied to the workers. I would assume that if the part was bad in the beginning, it would be tossed and not used but foresight in which what might survive the future or not was not a decision of a single worker.

Also, from the looks of the condition of this bass being left alone for so long, dryness and stress combined can easily split any wide straight grained piece of wood like this Block. It can also split from the other pieces of wood glued to it as the weakest link is what usually gives. So, if you think this Bass needs some extra strength in the block material itself, two pieces glued of slightly different grain might help. Just my 2 cents, or 3 or 4..;)

Keep up the good work. I bet you can't wait for the next big job to walk into your shop huh?..lol

2 x French basses with 2 piece neck blocks / the only other French bass I know also has the same , I thought that may be standard with older French instruments !

Matthew Tucker
01-26-2011, 06:20 AM
Here we go again.

Remember the scroll badly glued with lashings of PVA?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4519130096_4b6f0a517e.jpg

Well I had to break the "repair" open. Very carefully.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5210/5350984706_153d069747.jpg

Its very hot and humid here in Sydney and not a good time to be gluing neck blocks so I'm going to clean out all the PVA.

Here's my workshop for the afternoon:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5176/5390078114_57bd46231a.jpg

The equipment

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5171/5389474247_3fbab64324.jpg

The PVA mess

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5390078922_6aa1ccf131.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5390078222_2c40515522.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5098/5390078518_7c133db341.jpg

VERY fiddly job. Steam, vinegar, stiff brush, pick pick pick with sharp knife and tweezers and a LOT of patience. More like dentistry than luthiery. All done with a 10x magnifying visor, too.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5390078394_c90b4711c5.jpg

Scroll side cleaned up

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5390078834_ef23815b66.jpg

Matthew Tucker
01-26-2011, 06:20 AM
In this very odd photo of my leg and thumb, on the back of the scroll you can see a fracture where the pegbox is almost breaking through.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5390078710_dcec003745.jpg

More rubbery goo.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5389473975_ddebeb44a6.jpg

Before and after.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/5390078612_f407149ca2.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5256/5390078302_657c48d26e.jpg

Much better.

A bit daunting to think that this all has to glue back together and be strong enough for a neck graft later.

You wouldn't think it, but probably an hour and a half's work all up :-(

The only mishap was when I took a swig of old vinegar instead of my glass of ouzo and ice.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5012/5389474313_7b1afa5eb3.jpg

In all this closeup work I've had a good look at this head. VERY long, nicely cut, blackened chamfers, and I think it's beech, not maple.

Eric Hochberg
01-26-2011, 11:24 AM
Question, will the neck graft become the main structure of the broken up scroll now? It seems amazing that this thing would stay together.

Arnold Schnitzer
01-26-2011, 12:42 PM
Matthew, what is your repair strategy? Are you going to deeply re-cheek the sides of the pegbox to strengthen it? Considering that it broke right at the tuner shaft, my fear would be that it's likely to happen again unless heavily reinforced. I'm sure you've thought of the same thing. Would you consider having your neck graft join up by the volute, creating a new, solid pegbox? Or do you feel that's too invasive for this instrument?

Thomas Erickson
01-26-2011, 12:58 PM
Running the graft all the way up there seems like a smooth maneuver but it looks like something has to be done with the back of the pegbox up top as well, yes? I think I'd want to double the whole thing if so - perhaps in two operations, top (scroll/half pegbox) and bottom (half pegbox/neck graft)?

How about spiral bushing the peg holes too, long as we're at it...

Anyway, nice clean-up job so far!

Matthew Tucker
01-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Have to admit that my strategy is not yet fully crystallised. I wanted to see how well the joint cleaned up first. Yes it will need re-cheeking and I'm fortunate that it isn't heavily figured wood, so the repair may be well hidden if I do it well. I'm not sure that simple bushing of the pegholes is going to strengthen things much. In the Strad Secrets book there's a nice conical bushing method a guy has developed - I really like it. But whether I want to get tooled up for just this repair I don't know.

Over here one of my biggest challenges is to find the wood for these repairs. If I'm going to use maple I have to find and import a neck block. If I use beech or sycamore, I may be able to find something here. Or I could use another wood entirely. Obviously beech was original. Any suggestions for a good supplier?

Also important to remember this is a practical restoration to a working bass condition. There isn't the budget for an "as original" restoration. I really won't be able to save much if any of the original varnish. And since I am replacing the neck block, we may be converting this to a removable neck, too.

Steve Alcott
01-26-2011, 03:21 PM
If it were my bass, I'd do what I did with my former Olde Tyrolean; repair the scroll, hang it on the wall, and install a new neck including scroll. The original scroll on my bass had a lot of character, but had been broken several times in several different ways; when the tuner plates were removed, it fell apart. In this case, practicality won out over sentiment.

Matthew Tucker
01-26-2011, 03:55 PM
Yes, that is an option I am considering too :-)

Thomas Erickson
01-27-2011, 05:07 AM
I'm not sure that simple bushing of the pegholes is going to strengthen things much. In the Strad Secrets book there's a nice conical bushing method a guy has developed - I really like it. But whether I want to get tooled up for just this repair I don't know.


No, ordinary bushing isn't going to strengthen much, I don't think... Is this "conical" bushing the same as a spiral bushing? That is to say, a thin shave of wood installed with the grain running "around" the inside of the hole, using a tapered caul sort of thing? While I'm not sure that the technique is all that useful on basses in general (as opposed to the other strings), I think that in a case like this it seems like a good idea.

Definitely interested to see what you come up with... and I trust you will fix it and not hang it on the wall... ;)

Matthew Tucker
01-27-2011, 05:15 AM
no the conical bushing removes a large conical section of wood on the inside of the cheek at each hole and then filled with a significant plug of new wood, then re-drilled. I doubt if a spiral bushing would do anything. usually they're just for reducing the size of the hole a bit.

Thomas Erickson
01-27-2011, 05:41 AM
Well, I hear the spiral bush is a good solution when the cheek is cracked through the peg hole. Clearly more significant on an instrument with a true peg that has to press in, sure, since it will perpetually open the crack - but also seems like a sound idea to me when we'd be talking about placing it inside of a plain bush anyway and the top half of the pegbox is broken off at the holes... Makes sense to me to put the pegbox as solid as possible with new wood, and then reinforce the spot where it broke (the holes) even more; clearly the original wood in that spot is less than ideal or the neck would have broken first and spared the pegbox, yes?

(Pure speculation of course - I'm not qualified! :D )

Matthew Tucker
01-27-2011, 05:52 AM
i have never done a spiral bushing but as far as i know the technique uses a thin spiral of woodshaving in the hole. I fail to see how this can be a structural repair on a head this size!

Possibly better is to plug the hole, drill out a larger hole say 1" and plug THAT, then rebore the shaft hole in the new wood. The conical bushing is a variant of this and I think nicer.

But I'm not sure yet that's what's needed here.

Thomas Erickson
01-27-2011, 05:57 AM
Nor do I know what is ideal in this situation. :)

But the deal with the spiral bush is all in the grain orientation - you're placing the long grain of the "slice" perpendicular to the grains that have split across the peg hole. So you have the wood fibers supporting the first (expanding) load of the peg, rather than the glue joint between grains.

Steve Alcott
03-19-2011, 11:52 PM
It's been a while, and I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering how it's going.

Matthew Tucker
03-20-2011, 01:51 AM
OK so I've been a bit busy ... and now I need TWO pairs of specs for this sort of work :eek:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5093/5539913172_8f91158023.jpg

remember this? The cracked block needed to be replaced.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5289/5350160113_afb1f6b667.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/5539333477_e132baa270.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5539913432_e43571440f.jpg

some twit used nails in the top edge of the ribs.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5251/5539913652_6f5a66e4c6.jpg

more ironwork for the collection!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5253/5539334411_5c138bd5df.jpg

A lot of steam, water, heatgun, leverage and cursing later, the block came away with the ribs unscathed.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5539914150_cce75962bd.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5296/5539334969_d15b14e595.jpg

Matthew Tucker
03-20-2011, 01:51 AM
remember what it used to be like in there?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4577331482_56f506f790.jpg

YUK! All that black crap had to be wetted, heated and scraped off.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5255/5539914922_eff048372f.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5018/5539915166_0cc18e1930.jpg

here is the new block being glued in with temporary cauls.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5539336097_9862a59bf8.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5179/5539336367_1aeda6bd89.jpg

Yes its a multi-piece block.

You can see how the upper edge has been damaged by those pesky nails.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5541701785_cb7cfd3219.jpg

I'll have to trim those rib edges off neatly. I'll lose about a cm off the top of the original rib, but it is no big consequence.

The block is intentionally oversized and will need some trimming too.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5542280800_2240ba3586.jpg

Steve Alcott
03-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Thanks, Matthew-I'm sure I'm not the only one who's fascinated by and learning a great deal from your account of this major restoration.

Matthew Tucker
03-20-2011, 04:45 PM
not least of whom is me ...

Ken Smith
03-20-2011, 05:29 PM
not least of whom is me ...

Matthew, at least the cracks in this Bass are minimal. Yes, it needs a lot of work and correction but it could have been a lot worse.
Arnold mentioned that he could have made TWO basses in the time it took to restore the Cornerless attributed Storioni. He turned the job down twice but that's all behind us. Jed who used to work for Arnold has my Gemunder and says it's the hardest job he's ever had. Going on 3 years now, maybe more. I can't remember by we passed at least two X-mas target dates for completion. Cleaning out the old and bad work was the time killer. Going forward should be more downhill.

Keep up the good work. Oh, and multi-piece and laminated blocks are not all that uncommon. I have seen quite a few now in my old basses. Maybe there's a reason for this in the makers mind as most were original that I saw and not a repair or accident.

I'm looking forward to seeing your Dodd model. Maybe start your own 'new' thread on it's make. You think?

Matthew Tucker
03-20-2011, 05:38 PM
Thanks for that reality check Ken. Yes we have passed the one year mark on this one too. I have a patient client.

The Lott's coming on. There are a few pics on a certain social networking site ;-)

Ken Smith
03-20-2011, 07:34 PM
Thanks for that reality check Ken. Yes we have passed the one year mark on this one too. I have a patient client.

The Lott's coming on. There are a few pics on a certain social networking site ;-)

Ok, I thought it was a Dodd. Lol.. By the way, Lott was trained IN the Dodd shop so depending on the period, it's either bass. But, trained by Fendt snr..

Steve Alcott
06-19-2011, 05:41 PM
Any progress, Matthew?

Matthew Tucker
06-19-2011, 09:49 PM
Not a lot. It's winter, the days are shorter and its cold in the workshop. I am still looking foa a nice piece of flamed maple to match the back button which is the next repair to do. Also still undecided whether to replace the neck and make completely new scroll or whether its worth trying to save the original and splice on a new neck.

Ken Smith
06-19-2011, 10:03 PM
Not a lot. It's winter, the days are shorter and its cold in the workshop. I am still looking foa a nice piece of flamed maple to match the back button which is the next repair to do. Also still undecided whether to replace the neck and make completely new scroll or whether its worth trying to save the original and splice on a new neck.

By all means, to keep the value, repair the old scroll and graft a new neck. If unsure, please show pics of the areas that look challenging to fix. The button and scroll are important to save. The pegbox sides can have repairs and inlaid new cheeks if necessary.

Matthew Tucker
06-20-2011, 12:09 AM
that's my instinct, yes, but if the amount of wood i have to replace by re-cheeking etc is significant, then the only thing original left is the volute itself. The amount of work to repair, recheek, graft neck could be more than the work to make a new scroll.

This is an unlabelled bass of unknown quality and origin, being restored as a playing instrument and not a museum piece. Its a cost/benefit situation!

[edit] PLUS, I think it's a beech neck/head, not maple ...

So ... undecided.

I've posted a few pics here:

http://bresque.studio205.net.au/workshop/13-restoration/74-broken-scroll

Ken Smith
06-20-2011, 12:48 AM
that's my instinct, yes, but if the amount of wood i have to replace by re-cheeking etc is significant, then the only thing original left is the volute itself. The amount of work to repair, recheek, graft neck could be more than the work to make a new scroll.

This is an unlabelled bass of unknown quality and origin, being restored as a playing instrument and not a museum piece. Its a cost/benefit situation!

[edit] PLUS, I think it's a beech neck/head, not maple ...

So ... undecided.

I've posted a few pics here:

http://bresque.studio205.net.au/workshop/13-restoration/74-broken-scroll

If this were my bass, label or no label I would have it glued and repaired as well as re-cheeked with plain type maple. Under varnish it will look close and will be stronger. The graft should be a long one up to the end of the pegbox so the original is more of an outer shell. Then it can be re-cheeked either flush with some of the original cheeks shaved, or protruding, inlaid and looking more like a Pillement up neat the end of the box or, just over about 1/8th inch and blended in. In other words, do what ever you have to do to save the head, button and outer shell especially the back of the scroll veining. If you like, I can post some scroll pics of all ideas and explain what can't be easily seen under the varnish.

Regardless of the fact you don't know the exact maker or shop, this bass WAS made most likely in Mirecourt in the latter part of the 19th century give or take a few decades. So, it's somewhere between Lamy, Jacquet, Claudot or one of the shops or makers. The J.T. Lamy factory probably made more basses than all of the others combined in that period but there were also shops that just made parts and Scrolls for others that would complete the basses and label them. This is a Mirecourt Bass, no less that that and the wood is beautiful on the back and sides. It should be preserved with the same care as any other fine instrument. IF you make a new Scroll to save time, it will hurt the value of the bass in one way or another. I have seen one Claudot that had a later English scroll and was re-varnished but the bass was so good and the Scroll was so nice, it 'only' took 7 years to sell! If it had been restored all original, I am sure it would have sold much quicker.

Now that the bass is in your hands, you have total control to either 'restore' it as close to the makers/shops original model or, 'modify' it as you see fit for your convenience or concept. Shortening the string length for a bass like this if over 42" would be the only real modification I would recommend. That could be done with the neck graft, lower heel and the neck set in slightly deeper into the block. The Mougenot was just restored that way and it came out beautifully.

From what I have seen of your work, I have no doubt you have it in you to restore this back to it's old glory as good as anyone can. Just be patient and consider this to be possibly a French pedigree or value. When completed, the bass will thank you in its own way. I am sure of that.

Thomas Erickson
06-29-2011, 07:31 AM
If this were my bass, label or no label I would have it glued and repaired as well as re-cheeked with plain type maple. Under varnish it will look close and will be stronger. The graft should be a long one up to the end of the pegbox so the original is more of an outer shell. Then it can be re-cheeked either flush with some of the original cheeks shaved, or protruding, inlaid and looking more like a Pillement up neat the end of the box or, just over about 1/8th inch and blended in. In other words, do what ever you have to do to save the head, button and outer shell especially the back of the scroll veining. If you like, I can post some scroll pics of all ideas and explain what can't be easily seen under the varnish.

Regardless of the fact you don't know the exact maker or shop, this bass WAS made most likely in Mirecourt in the latter part of the 19th century give or take a few decades. So, it's somewhere between Lamy, Jacquet, Claudot or one of the shops or makers. The J.T. Lamy factory probably made more basses than all of the others combined in that period but there were also shops that just made parts and Scrolls for others that would complete the basses and label them. This is a Mirecourt Bass, no less that that and the wood is beautiful on the back and sides. It should be preserved with the same care as any other fine instrument. IF you make a new Scroll to save time, it will hurt the value of the bass in one way or another. I have seen one Claudot that had a later English scroll and was re-varnished but the bass was so good and the Scroll was so nice, it 'only' took 7 years to sell! If it had been restored all original, I am sure it would have sold much quicker.

Now that the bass is in your hands, you have total control to either 'restore' it as close to the makers/shops original model or, 'modify' it as you see fit for your convenience or concept. Shortening the string length for a bass like this if over 42" would be the only real modification I would recommend. That could be done with the neck graft, lower heel and the neck set in slightly deeper into the block. The Mougenot was just restored that way and it came out beautifully.

From what I have seen of your work, I have no doubt you have it in you to restore this back to it's old glory as good as anyone can. Just be patient and consider this to be possibly a French pedigree or value. When completed, the bass will thank you in its own way. I am sure of that.

Nice post. :D

John Leach
08-01-2011, 09:13 PM
Matthew, is the shop warming up a bit? We are anxiously awaiting the next installment in the restoration saga.

John

Matthew Tucker
08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Haha yes it is warming up and i have started on the restoration again. Will put some pics up soon. Keep bugging me, it helps!

John Leach
08-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Matthew, thank you for posting photos of the restoration. The workmanship and skill is amazing! This thread is the first thing I check when I log on.

John

Matthew Tucker
08-04-2011, 09:33 AM
Well, here we go again.

the last few days in Sydney have been in the 23-26C range which isn't bad for midwinter.

I decided I really need to get the back off next. Normally i would at least tack the front back on the ribs, but I suspect I'll have to work from inside and out to get this apart, so instead I just made sure the blocks were well braced in position.

The chalk marks show where there are rib cracks that will need attention.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6140/6008625696_fab9f43942.jpg

Carefully directed steam from the inside.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6122/6008625376_08ebca4a62.jpg

Here's a shot of the thick centre linings very typical of this sort of bass. A big glue surface, not easy to make it let go!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6016/6008077155_7f4b286d84.jpg

Here's another nicer view. The slab-cut centre brace is flush with the linings, probably didn't help cracking when the back shrunk a little!

That's a rib crack you can see above the lining. Look how well finished these corner blocks are!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6007/6008618866_16b521aaef.jpg

I love these corners

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/6008075785_a4c8c86596.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/6008624112_739173dc26.jpg

... but I have to start somewhere.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/6008623386_9756ba4200.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6001/6008070205_0d44231bd9.jpg

After a lot of wiggling, hammering, steaming, tapping, more steaming and more wiggling and lots of cursing, the back is finally off!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/6008619074_dec75c5674.jpg

So here's a good shot of that centre brace. It has split right through, and it will have to go.
It is, however, stuck on very well!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6124/6008618564_9e55aa1b41.jpg

Matthew Tucker
08-05-2011, 08:57 AM
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6020/6008072043_8a0f1653a4.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6030/6008621278_40e8994138.jpg

I started by washing away 150 years of crud.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6014/6008064765_6f57e99257.jpg

There are some interesting spots of some sort of reddish paint/dye perhaps ground coat?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/6008065371_26c6361df5.jpg

and the edges when scraped clean show some of the original colour.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6010/6008614116_ef7ce1204b.jpg

Pity I can't resurrect the original finsh. But it has completely deteriorated. This is how the varnish looks now, and look at the glorious wood underneath.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/6008068389_74111baa9d.jpg

Here's how some of the inside back cleaned up. The plane is just for scale, about life size here. I washed the crud off with water and a plastic sponge, the lovely old patina remains.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6148/6008075437_bf6df99cf8.jpg

Matthew Tucker
08-05-2011, 08:58 AM
This brace is very neatly made. But it's no good for this bass any more, and has to go.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6010/6008618242_6515a5855e.jpg



I started out with the scrub plane but it was hard going so I went hi-tech.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/6008074323_bbbb91ee7c.jpg

Hogged out with the horrible Arbortec. I hate this tool but it has its uses.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6003/6008067383_303b6b0e1f.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6011/6008613430_8e63d8349d.jpg

Thinned with a thumbplane down to a veneer

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6020/6008067615_9dddc29738.jpg

Then steamed off.

Here's a peeling of the final layer. Notice the corrugations on the glue side. They look too even to be made with a toothed plane. I wonder how this was finished before gluing?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6020/6008615538_bb749fd3c2.jpg

After a clean up and scrub.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/6008614434_e24f1e553e.jpg

Beautiful flame here.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6149/6008616938_abdef3a5b8.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6137/6008614822_40255a8045.jpg

Looks kind of 3D, doesn't it? But it's smooth.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/6008622254_5153e6cb15.jpg

Ken Smith
08-05-2011, 12:20 PM
Matt, I don't know how many French Basses like this you have done but just in case I would tell the experiences we've had here.

If it has the single step wide brace, good or bad, take it out. Put a normal Center brace, one lower and one upper. On the Mougenot bass of mine just restored by Jeff Bollbach he took out the single center brace which was not so different than your bass. The the replaced center is standard, flat about 5" wide or so. The upper and lower braces are shaped like a Bass bar, higher in the middle and tapered at he ends, maybe about 1 1/4" wide from looking thru the f-hole.

I also have a nice Claudot here, similar high flame wood like your bass and a single center brace as well. The bass is in fantastic shape and has has only a few repairs. On the brace stamped in 2 places is the name "Paul Claudot". Perhaps the stamps in the brace discouraged the past repairers from changing it.

The Mougenot is much more focused sounding now, fuller in tone and less hollow/French sounding like it was before the restoration. Perhaps the new bracing system helped.

Matthew Tucker
08-05-2011, 06:15 PM
I looked all over the back and brace with a magnifying glass for identifying marks but found none, unfortunately.

As you will see from the posts above, I have taken out the brace. I will probably replace it with bracing similar to this I am using on my Lott copy build below.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/6012967028_88fb48c4ee.jpg

Is this similar to the bracing Jeff did on your Claudot?

There is a bit of work to be done re-shaping the back lower bout on this french bass. over the years it has sunken inwards and put the rest of the back out of shape. I want to restore to flat or preferably a slight outward dishing. This may take some time! I have to redo the centre seam first.

Ken Smith
08-05-2011, 07:55 PM
I looked all over the back and brace with a magnifying glass for identifying marks but found none, unfortunately.

As you will see from the posts above, I have taken out the brace. I will probably replace it with bracing similar to this I am using on my Lott copy build below.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/6012967028_88fb48c4ee.jpg

Is this similar to the bracing Jeff did on your Claudot?

There is a bit of work to be done re-shaping the back lower bout on this french bass. over the years it has sunken inwards and put the rest of the back out of shape. I want to restore to flat or preferably a slight outward dishing. This may take some time! I have to redo the centre seam first.

On the Mougenot (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/vuillaume/), not the Claudot (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/claudot/). The Claudot is still with its original single brace. Your pics are similar but the upper brace is thinner and looks just like a bass bar. Not quite as wide or tall as yours are. Center seams are common fixed needed on French Flatbacks. The single center wide brace seems to promote that mandolin type bending of the shape of the back as well.

Matthew Tucker
08-09-2011, 07:54 PM
Using a heat blanket to restore a bit of dish in the lower bout.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6199/6026883257_5dc050c967.jpg

While the back is still together, I tack a frame onto each half before removing the remaining cleats. I need to do this because the "flat" back is not really flat, and I can't just clamp it to a flat surface for gluing. It's behaving somewhat like a roundback!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6206/6027436448_d720fe0221.jpg

This shows the big crack next to the centreline. Also note how this cleat was not very well glued to the back anyway!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6210/6027436838_fc99003bb0.jpg

All the cleats removed. Revealing an ugly piece of work.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6201/6027437214_8a1a5b083c.jpg

Steaming the centre joint apart carefully

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6143/6027437920_e1b9186488.jpg

Careful not to let crap fall into the crevasse!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6086/6027438344_cda3c743ae.jpg

The separated back on its frame.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6026886299_680cbb607a.jpg

Closeup of the grand canyon seen from the outside

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6204/6027439220_d67c3804c2.jpg
The crack was previously repaired and filled with some kind of brown putty which I have had to remove under magnification with a knife and pressurized steam.

You can see a blob of the putty in the above pic.

Matthew Tucker
08-09-2011, 07:55 PM
Cleaned up, clamped together and allow to dry

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/6027439610_39f6c3abb2.jpg

Not glued yet, but the crack seems to pull together OK

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6146/6026887389_45e8a6dd02.jpg

Thomas Erickson
08-10-2011, 07:58 AM
Looks great; interesting to see what the original varnish has done over the years.

I'm curious what you're using as a steam source?

Matthew Tucker
08-10-2011, 08:43 AM
I get my steam from Womble. He now has an extension tube on his snozzle.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5171/5389474247_3fbab64324.jpg

Steve Alcott
08-10-2011, 12:54 PM
Glad to see you back at work on this massive job, Matthew. I've been anxious for you to get rolling again as I find this saga extremely fascinating-I've had a bass undergo major work a couple of times, and consider myself pretty knowledgeable for a non-luthier, but this sort of crack-by-crack documentation of a full restoration is an education for all of us, especially when it's done with so much care.

Matthew Tucker
08-10-2011, 06:33 PM
Glad to see you back at work on this massive job, Matthew. I've been anxious for you to get rolling again as I find this saga extremely fascinating-I've had a bass undergo major work a couple of times, and consider myself pretty knowledgeable for a non-luthier, but this sort of crack-by-crack documentation of a full restoration is an education for all of us, especially when it's done with so much care.

Steve, thanks for the feedback (again). I don't consider myself much of an expert in this. I was trained as a documentary film editor.

However I spend a lot of time thinking about how to approach these sorts of tasks, and I think I'm getting OK results. Sometimes I wish I had someone to chat to about it though!

Steve Alcott
01-12-2012, 12:00 PM
Any updates, Matthew?

Matthew Tucker
01-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Steve, you keep me honest, don't you?

I have made a little progress on the button repair since last posting but nothing I want to post here yet. I want to make sure it works!

Will get onto it soon. But I have four school basses in at the moment and have to get them out of the way by end of the month.

By the way everyone I'm looking for recommendations for a small endpin model to replace the crap these small school basses are fitted with. I'd use an ULSA if given the choice, but school budgets creak a bit when I mention the price of these and there's a lot of reaming to do.

Brian Gencarelli
01-17-2012, 06:09 AM
Hey Matthew,

I have had good luck with these for that exact purpose. Good value for the school basses.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PCS-3-4-4-4-skidproof-double-bass-endpin-ebony-parts-/250564701311?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56d1ec7f

Hope that helps,
Brian

Matthew Tucker
01-19-2012, 11:07 PM
thanks Brian they look quite solid.

On this occasion, the schools agreed to pay for the ULSA pins.

Matthew Tucker
02-13-2012, 12:04 AM
Small update. Remember how I had tacked the back halves to a frame to help re-align them?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6026886299_680cbb607a.jpg

Well, once they were separated, the halves twisted about like so many pringles and try as I might, I found it was impossible to re-align them nicely. But I have learned a thing or two about the process!

So I have now decided to start from square one, back to flat plates as the builder would have done, re-join them, possibly with a 1-2mm centre strip if necessary, then re-brace with a slight dish across the plates, and then re-bend the break.

For the moment, I've been using heat, sandbags and pressure to flatten the plates on a formica worktop. Its very humid here in Sydney at the moment - almost tropical - midsummer and warm, sticky with bucketing rainstorms and hail. the end of La Nina apparently. So not glueing weather or varnishing weather, but flattening seems to be going OK.

this stage is not very picturesque, but I'll post pics if you want.

(edit: here are pics of flattening. It will take a while. I'm using a heat blanket to flatten each plate zone by zone.)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/6878705221_843f78b067.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6878691059_4f69a0aa49.jpg

After the assembly has cooled down, there is still a bunch of moisture left in the wood that can't escape through the silicone blanket, so i clamp the whole plate flat under a frame overnight or longer.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7186/6878702875_3e811888c5.jpg

Steve Alcott
02-13-2012, 11:06 AM
Speaking for myself, I enjoy every picture. I can't imagine being a bassist and not finding this account of a total restoration fascinating-I look forward to every installment, and feel like I'm learning a lot.

Matthew Tucker
02-14-2012, 09:55 PM
OK So I just made an executive decision that I am not going to stand for this crappy spirit varnish remnant any longer.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7204/6878680135_614514085b.jpg

It crumbles, it melts and sticks to the bench, it gets into everything ... enough is enough! No more pussyfooting around - this bass is going to be stripped and refinished! Starting NOW.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7191/6878676047_e1817f07f2.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7204/6878676931_ae4e70c3a1.jpg

Before:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7180/6878680999_4b66bee304.jpg

AFTER:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7058/6878681731_eb1c5196d1.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/6878683027_06b873539b.jpg

This will make my restoration work SO much easier. I should have done this a long time ago.

Underneath the crap you can see patches of the original colour. And a whole lot of dings, cracks and other damage ...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6878678477_e9f7dd14b9.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7182/6878679083_fea7f3049a.jpg

But the wood underneath is rather special. And it's nice to see the hand of the maker at last!

Steve Alcott
02-15-2012, 03:38 PM
Gack-that looked like crude oil on the plastic scraper-the wood is really beautiful. It's gonna be spectacular with a new finish.

AndrewHamilton
02-17-2012, 03:14 AM
Seeing this restoration is really inspiring. Can't wait to see how it comes together...

Matthew Tucker
02-17-2012, 03:52 AM
Can't wait to see how it comes together...

haha! me too. But we're going to have to be patient ...

Matthew Tucker
02-17-2012, 07:59 AM
OK remember this?

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2685/4518475605_72e5921e5f.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5169/5331907844_3c59c6dd18.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6123/6008068713_0ae1cd81aa.jpg

Most of the button was destroyed and filled with wood putty, bolts and stuff. So I cut it off and trimmed each half plate at a suitable grain line, leaving as much original wood as possible.

Matthew Tucker
02-17-2012, 08:10 AM
(This is a wee bit out of sequence with some of the pics I posted recently - you may if you have keen eyes notice that I did the first part of what comes next, a little while ago)

After quite a bit of hunting around and eventually a friendly donation from Ken McKay I obtained some highly flamed maple close to the original.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7061/6878682363_c6fc6130e1.jpg

Of course, this is brand new wood; it wood (!) have been better to find some old flamed maple but there's precious little of this over here.

I probably should have "aged" the wood first before fitting, but I'm counting on being able to match it under the varnish later.

I think a butt-join isn't enough here; although the hide glue joint is very strong, this place needs some long maple fibres running across the joint, so I plane the end down at an angle to put the maximum new wood in place with the minimum join showing at the plate edge. Most of the NEW wood runs along the centre seam, and feathers out towards the edge of the repair.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6878702383_d2dd1abbe9.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7063/6878695743_d3ae468125.jpg

I don't need to use such fancy maple for this piece, but the grain will still be running almost the same way.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7046/6878694551_72643b2e63.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7046/6878688499_09e7793ae0.jpg

My new Veritas low angle block plane has been brilliant for this job.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7186/6878689135_01a4678b59.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6878689767_332fdac3c8.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6878692185_22910b2b2e.jpg

Here's the edge of the off-cut and you can see how good the joint is. I have planed off almost all the way through the plate at the centreline, but angled back up to the edge of the plate so that the join will only be visible on the edge of the button itself, not the plate edge.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6878692697_80726afb94.jpg

Well that's enough for now. I'll trim these more and blend the outside with the french-style button later when the plate is re-jointed and probably re-glued to the block!

Eric Swanson
02-17-2012, 09:33 AM
Nice grain matching...thanks for sharing all of this!

Matthew Tucker
02-20-2012, 06:43 PM
A damaged corner. The wood was a bit spongy and torn as a result of several top removals/replacements in the past. One way of patching this would be to plane a flat shelf right across the edge and fit a flat piece, then cut and reshape the edge. But the edge was clean, and I wanted to preserve it. So I decided to do a fitted inlay patch. This is more work but will lead to a better result, I think.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6878696335_4c09c5d188.jpg

Starting the bed. You can see the cracks and splits!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7036/6878698215_f1e6ed8a6b.jpg

The maple patch piece with alignment marks.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/6878683575_687ed86598.jpg

Rough shaping the bottom of the patch. This is going to be more time consuming than fitting a sound post patch; maple is much harder than spruce.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6878684137_358cc0e21a.jpg

Checking depth and shape of the bed. I make it perfectly smooth and polished and keep the edges as clean as I can.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7199/6878700035_68e729454c.jpg

Chalking the bed

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7059/6878686079_1aea9c67ba.jpg

Trimming the patch with a scraper

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7189/6878686601_71f55f799a.jpg

Checking the fit – a fair way to go yet. The surfaces need to fit perfectly in all dimensions.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/6878687833_dcb9005f27.jpg

Matthew Tucker
02-20-2012, 06:45 PM
The finished patch

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7198/6912713625_424f5fd4d7.jpg

Ready for gluing.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7198/6912715765_f67fdb379b.jpg

The glued and trimmed patch – you can see a thin layer of spalting that showed up when I planed it down, but it is of no consequence

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7036/6912712569_626186f860.jpg

I'm happy with the result :cool:

Steve Alcott
02-22-2012, 10:36 AM
Beautiful work-I'm always impressed when the hidden work is done with as much care as the visible.

Ken Smith
02-22-2012, 03:55 PM
A damaged corner. The wood was a bit spongy and torn as a result of several top removals/replacements in the past. One way of patching this would be to plane a flat shelf right across the edge and fit a flat piece, then cut and reshape the edge. But the edge was clean, and I wanted to preserve it. So I decided to do a fitted inlay patch. This is more work but will lead to a better result, I think.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6878696335_4c09c5d188.jpg


Matt, to my eye looking at that powdery-like soft wood, the first thing that comes to mind is wood worms, like powder post beetle or something of that nature. How does the corner block look that this was sitting on as far as any similar damage? Also, I don't see that much edge damage at all from previous Back removals as we know the Back is rarely taken off if at all.

Matthew Tucker
02-22-2012, 05:07 PM
Very true. the back is rarely removed so perhaps there is another reason. I must have been on autopilot when writing that post! But there is no easily apparent worm or rot damage on the corresponding corner block. And I don't recall being too gung-ho im my removal of the back, either. So, cause uncertain.

Steve Alcott
04-29-2012, 05:43 PM
Any progress?

Matthew Tucker
04-29-2012, 06:13 PM
nope. too busy with other things. Back is getting flatter and workshop backlog is clearing though ...

Matthew Tucker
05-01-2012, 10:08 AM
Not a huge progress but I think I had better feed you a little more anyway ...

After lot of patience the back is flat enough to deal with.

I don't have a shooting board four feet long so I improvise one on the benchtop. That's a #6 Stanley sliding on a waxed laminex benchtop.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/7131839697_4e1ece8c1b.jpg

The centre joint is dirty to the core so I have to plane back to clean wood.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7210/6985779684_9e77d0db3a.jpg

its nice putting the halves together like this because I can see how the two pieces are only a sawblade's width apart from the same plank. At least. i think i can see this.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7091/7131890379_897909d5fd.jpg

I'll have to chalk fit the centre joint i think. The Stanley is good for getting a nice flat joint and the Veritas low angle bock plane will help me smooth any ripples.

Arnold Schnitzer
05-01-2012, 06:36 PM
Matthew,will you be installing a strip in the center to make up for lost wood due to planing and shrinkage? Looking good, by the way.

Matthew Tucker
05-01-2012, 08:23 PM
Possibly. I haven't had to plane much off, just carefully skimming the surface so far. I plan to do a test fit with the rib garland and see. I'd rather not if I can get away with it.

Ken Smith
05-02-2012, 02:41 AM
Possibly. I haven't had to plane much off, just carefully skimming the surface so far. I plan to do a test fit with the rib garland and see. I'd rather not if I can get away with it.

Often, over the years the plates shrink slightly and the wider areas over the Bass start to loose they overhang and become flush with the Ribs or worse. I think, even without seeing your bass in person that a minimum of a 2-3 mm center strip will be needed. Of course you have the bass and the birdseye view so I know you will make that call if need be. Unless the Bass had a proud overhang to begin with, the strip might be necessary. It is quite common on old basses, especially when you have to re-joint the center seam.

Matthew Tucker
05-02-2012, 10:32 AM
Well I did a test fit and although i think i could get away with no centre strip, I think I'll make life easier for myself and give my self 2-3mm back.

Dang ... which means I have to make an aesthetic choice of what to use down the centre of this highly flamed back!

Scott Pope
05-02-2012, 11:26 AM
A very dark hardwood, like rosewood, walnut or ebony, so as not to detract from the flame?

Ken Smith
05-02-2012, 09:04 PM
A very dark hardwood, like rosewood, walnut or ebony, so as not to detract from the flame?

Rosewood or Ebony will move and shrink at a much greater rate than Maple throughout the seasons. Also, they are Oily woods and should be de-resinated befor gluing. On the Loveri, we used Tropical Walnut which I supplied, aged in my stock for over 15 years.

Matthew Tucker
05-02-2012, 10:07 PM
I'm looking sideways at a nice sliver of very dark zebrawood right now. You can hardly see the brown/black striping, but it is there.

Scott Pope
05-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Rosewood or Ebony will move and shrink at a much greater rate than Maple throughout the seasons. Also, they are Oily woods and should be de-resinated befor gluing. On the Loveri, we used Tropical Walnut which I supplied, aged in my stock for over 15 years.
Ken, thanks. I did not know that. I thought being dense they were more dimensionally stable than that, and although I know rosewood is resinous, I didn't know ebony was considered the same. That would make them difficult to glue for a thin stringer. Another dense wood that comes to mind that, in spite of its name, does age to a dark, even brown is purpleheart. What is your opinion of that wood as a stringer? I see it a lot on the electric side of things.
I'm looking sideways at a nice sliver of very dark zebrawood right now. You can hardly see the brown/black striping, but it is there.
Indeed. I have a chunk of that right now I'm thinking about as a bridge block on an electric guitar to contrast the reddish finish.

Matthew Tucker
05-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Personally, I don't think dimensional stability on a 2mm wide piece of whatever is anywhere near as important as the dimensional stability of the 14" wide pieces of maple its glued to! Even if it is (properly seasoned) wood that shrinks and expands more than maple, it is only a very small percentage of its own dimension, and a small percentage of 2mm is a tiny fraction of a small percentage of the maple, if you see what i mean. And the long-ways shrinkage is insignificant. I'm more concerned about it "taking" hide glue but I haven't yet met a wood that can't be glued with hide glue very well. I'm sure they exist but i haven't found it yet.

I have not personally seen the need to de-resin (or de-oil!) ebony before gluing. And none of my fingerboards have fallen off yet.

The only problem *I* have with purpleheart is the revolting colour. How anyone can love it, is beyond me :-)

Ken Smith
05-03-2012, 08:35 PM
Personally, I don't think dimensional stability on a 2mm wide piece of whatever is anywhere near as important as the dimensional stability of the 14" wide pieces of maple its glued to! Even if it is (properly seasoned) wood that shrinks and expands more than maple, it is only a very small percentage of its own dimension, and a small percentage of 2mm is a tiny fraction of a small percentage of the maple, if you see what i mean. And the long-ways shrinkage is insignificant. I'm more concerned about it "taking" hide glue but I haven't yet met a wood that can't be glued with hide glue very well. I'm sure they exist but i haven't found it yet.

I have not personally seen the need to de-resin (or de-oil!) ebony before gluing. And none of my fingerboards have fallen off yet.

The only problem *I* have with purpleheart is the revolting colour. How anyone can love it, is beyond me :-)

Over time with Ebony glued to maple you can feel the glue joint edge. So, something like the back of a bass is not like a fingerboard that can be replaced over time. The center strip of the back must stay for life and by the age of this or any other bass, we are talking 100s of years. Mostly, I see strips of maple being used on maple backs. Nothing fancy but it works. If you want dark, walnut works just fine. Having a bit of experience with all of these woods mentioned, I think maple or walnut are your best choices and colors to work from.

Matthew Tucker
05-03-2012, 09:12 PM
All good points Ken.

On the other hand, a fingerboard is a much bigger chunk of ebony, glued to a smaller chunk of maple. So the movement is going to be more significant there.

Ken Smith
05-03-2012, 10:01 PM
All good points Ken.

On the other hand, a fingerboard is a much bigger chunk of ebony, glued to a smaller chunk of maple. So the movement is going to be more significant there.

Lol, for sure but to find out, you might have to live a bit longer than the rest of us. ;)

Matthew Tucker
05-03-2012, 10:13 PM
Don't worry Ken. I'm planning to!



And May the Fourth be with you.

Chet Bishop
05-04-2012, 02:07 PM
Well, Matthew, I had missed almost all of this great thread, so I have spent the time to sit and read through every post. Very engaging, fascinating stuff.

I'm looking forward to seeing the final product. I hope to begin another bass this month, but there have been a number of developments lately that might make me postpone again. (Sure hope not-- it has been five years sunce I finished the last one...)

Press on, my friend!

Chet Bishop

Arnold Schnitzer
06-27-2012, 08:43 AM
Matthew, how's that neck coming?

Matthew Tucker
06-27-2012, 10:15 AM
Not much change since you last saw it at Oberlin!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7454430796_e1d9f50d88.jpg

As you may recall, after gluing the bits together again

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8166/7454444486_32c28b1717.jpg

I let Robbie loose with his jig

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8011/7454436866_5eb9f0dbda.jpg

and before too long the mortise was formed.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7108/7454438272_1ed1ec2b53.jpg

then we cleaned up the nice grafting block you sold me

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7454439842_c18b7af1a0.jpg

made some more fluffy shavings and chalk dust

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8002/7454425200_b0a9714d2a.jpg

and fit the neck nicely into the mortise

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8002/7454428030_186c4f5ab6.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7270/7454450914_c876ed5283.jpg

It made it back here with the rest of my tools and tonewood, in one piece and without grief from customs officials

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/7454445698_f438decd84.jpg

and is now on my second bench waiting for the weekend when i can crank up the bandsaw to cut some new cheeks.

Brian Gencarelli
06-28-2012, 11:43 AM
That's great! I was wondering how you made out with the travel case. It was a pleasure sharing a bench with you. Got to see the process up close and personal.

Can't wait to see it recheeked and all finished!

Best,
Brian

Arnold Schnitzer
07-01-2012, 09:24 AM
Nice pics and work, Matthew. Brian, will you be starting up a thread on your endpin experiments soon? How is the Tarrantino sounding?

Brian Gencarelli
07-01-2012, 01:42 PM
Hey Arnold,

Yes, I am still working on some ideas, but things are going well. Harrison is in town and I had him play it for me with a couple of different pins. I think I may just plug the regular endpin hole with a tailpiece hanger and just use the Laborie. I am starting to get used to it. Been tweaking the set up some, and I about have it dialed in. It sounded really good with John playing this morning.

I will be posting some things on it in the next few weeks. I just finished reorganizing my shop and now I can actually walk to my Lathe! Now that I have figured out how to play in that position, I can experiment with the different materials.

Best,
Brian

Steve Alcott
08-28-2012, 12:58 PM
So how's the bass coming along, Matthew?

Matthew Tucker
08-28-2012, 08:24 PM
OK, OK :)


Once the graft was glued, I checked the cheeks and back.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8444/7883890512_38e235fae6.jpg

The repair join was good, but it was a toss-up between an inlay repair of the back of the scroll and re-doing the cheeks. Given the state of the scroll, I decided to re-cheek as well. Also, there is the little broken bit of the edge that I put somewhere and now cannot find ...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8179/7883890060_c4b8c24950.jpg

While I was waiting for suitable repair wood to arrive from Europe, I hollowed out the pegbox.

That's the Lignum Vitae carver's mallet my Mum gave me a few years back.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8442/7883888844_ddc9c67fdb.jpg

The black mark is a woodpecker peck, or a nail hole, or something. It doesn’t worry me as it’s not in a critical position. I may chisel it out altogether eventually.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/7883888136_40729914a2.jpg

The sides were planed back as little as possible and holes filled where needed with new maple. These will mostly be covered and the holes drilled out again, but a bit of repair wood in there will minimise splitting.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8169/7883856468_bb2772792e.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8303/7883857116_e98a19dd6d.jpg


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8174/7884204652_70f94d52db.jpg


The scroll this morning, new cheeks and in process of shaping. I was careful to document the chamfer before planing off the sides, so I can try to make the new chamfer as close to the original.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8444/7883854846_525b4c7ce8.jpg

The sides of the scroll will be probably 1.5mm thicker than the original, and I will probably finish the top of the cheeks with a gentle scoop into the existing volute, instead of a smooth transition, as I want to keep a good thickness of wood up near the top of the pegbox where it counts.

On the pic below I have redrilled the guideholes for the tuners; I measured these with calipers using triangulation from the lower corners before gluing on the cheeks. You can also see a tiny hole where I used a pin to accurate register the cheeks for gluing.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8033/7883855276_a49e67a0a5.jpg

The new cheeks were cut from a flamed violin back wedge. Even though the grafting neck block itself was rather plain maple, I decided it would be a pity not to try to match the flame on the rest of the instrument, in the scroll. Due to the smallish size of the back wedge, the flame is angled back a few degrees from normal.

It's nice flame, pity my lighting is so crap.

Steve Alcott
09-02-2012, 11:16 PM
Looks great, your lighting is fine, and thanks for keeping us up to date on the progress.

Matthew Tucker
09-02-2012, 11:34 PM
If anyone has any real, practical, tried tips about keeping a flatback flat for reglueing, send them through. This one wants to curl up like a potato chip. I've tried lots of things, dampening and clamping flat, using heat and clamps etc, drying out under lamps etc, but as soon as I pull the clamps off it starts to curl again. And not in the direction I want it to. Quite frustrating!! I'm now considering sealing the inside surface to slow the moisture loss.

JoeyNaeger
09-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Maybe you need to overbend it the other way? The cheeks look great by the way.

Thomas Erickson
09-08-2012, 03:26 AM
Is the back naturally so warped that you couldn't just work around it? I have to wonder about using any method of forcing something like that in a way it doesn't want to go - seems like at some point it will always go back where it wants to be and pull things apart, or at least introduce a lot of stress.

Maybe at some point a new back isn't such a terrible thing, if the original is just going to compromise the rest of the instrument.

Brian Gencarelli
09-08-2012, 09:15 AM
If anyone has any real, practical, tried tips about keeping a flatback flat for reglueing, send them through. This one wants to curl up like a potato chip. I've tried lots of things, dampening and clamping flat, using heat and clamps etc, drying out under lamps etc, but as soon as I pull the clamps off it starts to curl again. And not in the direction I want it to. Quite frustrating!! I'm now considering sealing the inside surface to slow the moisture loss.

The back on my Tarantino was the same way. When I took it off it when haywire. Looked like a big pringle. I did the same thing and clamped it flat. I also added the center strip to it, which was a crazy challenge. every thing I did I tried to make sure that it was clamped flat for final shaping. I think that it finally relaxed, but I just kept it in a really regulated room. (Clamped to the dining room table... the wife loved it. :D)

I think it finally relaxed to a point that I could get it re-joined, but it didn't come out perfectly. I had at least one or two proud spots and one dip. I think that was due to a flaw in my clamping process. Which I will know better next time. However, the bass sounded much better after taking all of that stress out of the back and making it function as a unit.

Do the halves at least match in their warpage? are they going different directions?

Don't have all the answers for you, but hope you get it worked out.

Best,
Brian

Steve Alcott
11-08-2012, 11:05 AM
Any progress, Matthew?

Matthew Tucker
11-09-2012, 02:30 AM
erm ... not enough to show just yet. :(

waiting on some french-look tuners though.

Ken Smith
11-09-2012, 03:04 AM
erm ... not enough to show just yet. :(

waiting on some french-look tuners though.

Why not just restore the Tuners that were on the bass? Are any of them broken? If not, those are the classic tuners expected to see on a French bass.

Matthew Tucker
11-18-2012, 07:34 AM
the original tuners are not in very good shape. And probably not worth restoring. What do you recommend as an alternative, Ken?

Thomas Erickson
11-18-2012, 07:40 AM
I know you didn't ask my opinion, but if the originals are completely unsalvageable, my personal choice would be Sloane all day long. They're the only machines I would choose for my own personal bass.

edit - and yes, I know they're nowhere close to original appearing or anything, and they're heavy and expensive (and slow) - but they work! :D

Arnold Schnitzer
11-18-2012, 09:23 AM
Matthew, there is a guy in France making total copies of the old French bass machines. I have seen them on Laborie basses I think. With your excellent research skills, I bet you can find him. When you do, get me in please...

Ken Smith
11-18-2012, 09:49 AM
the original tuners are not in very good shape. And probably not worth restoring. What do you recommend as an alternative, Ken?

I would first have to have a look at the tuners there before I agree to change them. Then, look around for something that would be comparable for a French-like look that is available today.

My Jacquet-Pillement came to me with replaced gears already so I never had the chance to restore the old ones. Starting as a 3-stringer, if modified with a 4th French gear, it is more than likely a mis-match anyway. My Lamy that was converted recently from 3 to 4 has 3 different kinds of gears. Only 2 of them match but are all similar.

You can have a look at the Gears of the Jacq-Pill (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/jacquet-pillement/) but I am not sure what the gears are on the bass or if still available. The Lamy (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/lamy/) is an example of one or two gears being added or replaced that almost match. That is another idea unless yours are totally shot. The old ones do however look best on a bass like that.

Matthew Tucker
12-16-2012, 09:43 PM
The back has been a pain to flatten, so i'm going to try a new approach. First I had to see whether I needed to add some wood to the centre back seam.

First, I tacked the repaired top onto the ribs

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8346/8278944381_8d6a8f4a29.jpg

This allowed me to position the bass on the back to see how my overhangs are looking.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8504/8280000944_493e95bed0.jpg

With the top tacked on I can move the corners and ribs around to see if everything will fit. It's been apart so long, not everything lines up nicely. But with a bit of persuasion, I am convinced everything will eventually go back as needed.

I decided to add a thin centre strip. Pictured below is my setup for gluing to one side only. The long hardwood beam holds the back flat to the perspex backing.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8199/8280000232_e214af23ce.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8280000018_ba86107123.jpg

I use wedges to clamp the hardwood strip to the side.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8199/8278943469_b276c2f1b9.jpg

The strip will be trimmed down to the width of the back plate, then I'll have another challenge to glue the other side.

Matthew Tucker
12-16-2012, 09:46 PM
Here are the tuners I will be using. I will antique the handles to make them look more "french"

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8280048544_3c9730c7f9.jpg

Steve Alcott
12-16-2012, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the update-I've been wondering how it was going.

Matthew Tucker
12-17-2012, 01:47 AM
Steve - for once you didn't have to ask!

Anselm Hauke
12-17-2012, 04:15 AM
Here are the tuners I will be using. I will antique the handles to make them look more "french"



i heard that this will work: boil some eggs, mash them and put the metal parts you want to age completly in the mashed eggs and put this in a plastic bag.

i donĀ“t know how long they have to stay there, so i would try it with something else from the same material first.

Brian Gencarelli
12-17-2012, 06:59 AM
Here are the tuners I will be using. I will antique the handles to make them look more "french"

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8280048544_3c9730c7f9.jpg

The tuners are pretty, where did you source them?

I like your set up for the center strip. I am about to do the same thing with another bass... let me know how it turns out. I am not thrilled with the first one I did.

Best,
Brian

Matthew Tucker
12-17-2012, 11:32 PM
They are a custom order from Michael Abarientos in the Phillipines. A variation on an existing model with larger handles to look more "french". All brass, though.

Adrian Juras
08-14-2013, 09:10 AM
Your work looks great! Did you end up completing the restoration?

Matthew Tucker
08-18-2013, 03:41 AM
Still happening. Slow project. Just got the back joined again. Will post more pics soon.

Stephen Edwards
04-21-2014, 01:56 PM
Any updates?

FrankDeets
11-25-2014, 05:50 AM
great photos :)

Casey Tolhurst
08-17-2018, 02:13 PM
I've rather enjoyed reading this thread on restoring an old French factory bass. Looks that Matthew has made it better than new.

Any final pictures of the restoration, and how does it sound? Did you set it up for orchestra or jazz?

Tried to post a picture of this finished bass from the Bresque Basses website, but the url requirement prevents me. Here's a link.
https://www.bresquebasses.com.au/restoration

Cheers from Canada
Casey