Viennese ??

[Adrian Levi]

Heres my most recent find , I'm guessing its Viennese or ........ ?

[Ken Smith]

Heres my most recent find , I'm guessing its Viennese or ........ ?

I have seen Basses with that Scroll style from the regions of Prague, Hungary and Vienna. The F-holes don't look much like the old Vienna makers but then again, I have only seen a few.

It is in that style in the shape and the Scroll but looks a bit on the plain side. I would guess Prague before Vienna or at least either being equally possible.

Nice looking bass. Send it to me, please..:)

[Adrian Levi]

I have seen Basses with that Scroll style from the regions of Prague, Hungary and Vienna. The F-holes don't look much like the old Vienna makers but then again, I have only seen a few.

It is in that style in the shape and the Scroll but looks a bit on the plain side. I would guess Prague before Vienna or at least either being equally possible.

Nice looking bass. Send it to me, please..:)

If I decide to move it Ill be sure to let you know first :)

The things that stand out to me(beside the monster scroll) are the narrow F-holes as well as the lack of perfling on the back. Also the button is rather 'fat' compared to my other basses. Also with a mirror and light it seems that the end and neck blocks are definitely larger than other germans that I have seen.....she does look quite old though.

[Ken Smith]

If I decide to move it Ill be sure to let you know first :)

The things that stand out to me(beside the monster scroll) are the narrow F-holes as well as the lack of perfling on the back. Also the button is rather 'fat' compared to my other basses. Also with a mirror and light it seems that the end and neck blocks are definitely larger than other germans that I have seen.....she does look quite old though.

I don't think this is German at all. Prague is among the possibilities beside Vienna and Budapest/Pest.

[Adrian Levi]

I don't think this is German at all. Prague is among the possibilities beside Vienna and Budapest/Pest.

Ken - do you have any idea when and where this scroll design originated from?
I cant decide if ugly or not ... looks kind of medieval weapon like ...

[Ken Smith]

Ken - do you have any idea when and where this scroll design originated from?
I cant decide if ugly or not ... looks kind of medieval weapon like ...

Viol d'Gambas? .. All over Europe from Italy thru Germany and spread east and west. I think the earliest I have seen these is the 16th century Viols, maybe earlier.

[Adrian Levi]

I've just noticed that this neck on this bass is sitting directly on the neck block and not supported by the rib sides at all it seems :confused: . The neck block face is flush with the rib ends / I'm just interested to know if any particular school subscribed to this way of building ?

[Ken Smith]

I've just noticed that this neck on this bass is sitting directly on the neck block and not supported by the rib sides at all it seems :confused: . The neck block face is flush with the rib ends / I'm just interested to know if any particular school subscribed to this way of building ?

When or IF the Top comes off, you will see it is a dovetail joint in the neck block. The neck can't just SIT on top. It has to be supported. I have seen this on German Basses as a style but is also the old Gamba construction before the neck/block mortise became the standard.

Can you show some pictures of the sides/ribs? By the neck area and full shots as well, both sides and as many pics as you can post.

[Eric Hochberg]

Can you see a clue of the dovetail in the overstand?. I can on my older bass. It appears that filler blocks were added to hide it, or it might have been converted from dovetail.

[Adrian Levi]

When or IF the Top comes off, you will see it is a dovetail joint in the neck block. The neck can't just SIT on top. It has to be supported. I have seen this on German Basses as a style but is also the old Gamba construction before the neck/block mortise became the standard.

Can you show some pictures of the sides/ribs? By the neck area and full shots as well, both sides and as many pics as you can post.

A dovetail joint never occurred to me . Here are some pics I have on my mac.

[Adrian Levi]

a couple more ...

[Ken Smith]

Please, straight side shots please. I want to see the profile form.

Like these;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/vuillaume/images/vuillaume3.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/vuillaume/images/vuillaume4.jpg

and body only without neck like;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/candi/images/candi-006.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/candi/images/candi-007.jpg

On the Dovetail with the Neck on top of the block I just looked back at some pics and see this on many German basses from all schools, some from Prague and some Viennese. These are mainly throughout the 19th century.

The problem in history search is that most good luthiers when changing the neck with a new graft will modify it and drop it into the block. Often, the block is either changed or wood added to the bottom of it to compensate for the deeper mortise. On occasion a luthier will actually 'restore' it and keep it original. I have even seen this with blockless basses. To me, this makes no sense at all because the best neck set is the mortise. Why drive with square tires when we have round ones now??:confused::eek:

[Adrian Levi]

Please, straight side shots please. I want to see the profile form.

Like these;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/vuillaume/images/vuillaume3.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/vuillaume/images/vuillaume4.jpg

and body only without neck like;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/candi/images/candi-006.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/candi/images/candi-007.jpg

On the Dovetail with the Neck on top of the block I just looked back at some pics and see this on many German basses from all schools, some from Prague and some Viennese. These are mainly throughout the 19th century.

The problem in history search is that most good luthiers when changing the neck with a new graft will modify it and drop it into the block. Often, the block is either changed or wood added to the bottom of it to compensate for the deeper mortise. On occasion a luthier will actually 'restore' it and keep it original. I have even seen this with blockless basses. To me, this makes no sense at all because the best neck set is the mortise. Why drive with square tires when we have round ones now??:confused::eek:

Ill send pics as soon as I can on the sides !
Do you have any basses of a similar style ?

[Ken Smith]

Ill send pics as soon as I can on the sides !
Do you have any basses of a similar style ?

No, not at this time. I have only seen them on occasion and a few similar basses on the web.

It would be hard to say for sure if a Vienna 'style' bass is actually Viennese when it was also copied in Hungary, Prague and other surrounding areas. Perhaps the bass dealers in that part of the world would be able to ID the bass for you.

About 10 years ago I went Bass shopping and saw two basses around the same price. One was a Johann Thir bass. This was 100% typical Viennese from the 18th century. It was a big bass and was beautiful. For some reason, I had zero interest in it. I plucked a few notes on it and moved on to a smaller 3/4 Italian bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/solo-bass/) that I had my eye on. Shortly after I found the Batchelder bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/batchelder/) that suited me better, in the wallet and in the ear as far as sound for money.

I think now if that Thir bass walked in for the same price it was 10 years ago I would snap it up. Back then it felt way too expensive being that it wasn't Italian.

[Adrian Levi]

No, not at this time. I have only seen them on occasion and a few similar basses on the web.

It would be hard to say for sure if a Vienna 'style' bass is actually Viennese when it was also copied in Hungary, Prague and other surrounding areas. Perhaps the bass dealers in that part of the world would be able to ID the bass for you.

About 10 years ago I went Bass shopping and saw two basses around the same price. One was a Johann Thir bass. This was 100% typical Viennese from the 18th century. It was a big bass and was beautiful. For some reason, I had zero interest in it. I plucked a few notes on it and moved on to a smaller 3/4 Italian bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/solo-bass/) that I had my eye on. Shortly after I found the Batchelder bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/batchelder/) that suited me better, in the wallet and in the ear as far as sound for money.

I think now if that Thir bass walked in for the same price it was 10 years ago I would snap it up. Back then it felt way too expensive being that it wasn't Italian.

The Batchelder bass looks related to my bass in cut and top arching maybe , except that mine has a scroll that IMO looks like an ugly medieval weapon !!