Grips on German bows - why?

[Thomas Erickson]

So what's the story - obviously a grip is going to add a little weight, so if one is added or removed it will change the balance of the bow a bit - but why make a German bow with a grip in the first place?

The bow I've been playing the most for years has no grip, though it clearly had one at some point before I got it- what might I expect if I were to have a grip added?

[Terry McDougal]

Maybe it's for looks, like a little inlay that's sometimes on the frog? I have a bow that was converted from French that has one, my other doesn't. Makes no obvious difference.
Ken Smith will know.

[Ken Smith]

Maybe it's for looks, like a little inlay that's sometimes on the frog? I have a bow that was converted from French that has one, my other doesn't. Makes no obvious difference.
Ken Smith will know.

Who, me? Hey, I play French Bow. I have no clue what you German bow players do.. sorry..:confused:

[Thomas Erickson]

Make fist, swing from shoulder. Primate thing. :D

[Terry McDougal]

Who, me? Hey, I play French Bow. I have no clue what you German bow players do.. sorry..:confused:
No worries Ken, I'll run with this one.
Violin, viola and cello all use a bow that could be described as a French bow. Its shape is the standard shape for the three higher pitched instruments so I guess that features of these bows could easily find their way onto double bass bows. The German, or Butler, bow seems to predate the French, so maybe early bow makers just carried on the tradition, from bows for other string instruments, of putting on a leather grip? They must have wondered what use it would be - perhaps some players in those early days held the German bow like a French bow? Any violin players who switched to bass would tend to do this. There again, maybe early bow makers just thought the leather grip was a cool look?

[Thomas Erickson]

Leather is a cool look for my motorcycle jacket, but I'm not so sure about on a bow... :D


Nah, I'm sure it is a carry-over from the other bows of the string family, and also that plenty of German bows have been (and are) played with an overhand grip. My bow shows plenty of wear from just such use even after the grip disappeared and I even do it myself on occasion.

Overall I'm just more curious about why we're still sticking with the grip today - if there's a legit reason for it or not. For all I know, it isn't possible to get enough weight at the frog end of the stick without making it too thick - or bulking up the frog - and the grip is just a means of adding mass in a way that looks traditional? I suppose a bowmaker who specializes in bass bows might know. Seems a breed few and far between...

[Richard Prowse]

Could not the opposite be true? German bows have that thingy because they have been upgraded from a French bow?

[Calvin Marks]

Good question but you wouldn't be able to just slap on a different frog without altering the camber of the stick, which for a French to German conversion would be fairly drastic (or visa versa). I play both bows and don't use a grip or winding on EITHER...Yes, not even on a French bow. I find that they mute the stick and stop vibrations. Rubber tubing for a French bow is also not the greatest idea as you can develop some poor technique habits.

[Ken Smith]

Good question but you wouldn't be able to just slap on a different frog without altering the camber of the stick, which for a French to German conversion would be fairly drastic (or visa versa). I play both bows and don't use a grip or winding on EITHER...Yes, not even on a French bow. I find that they mute the stick and stop vibrations. Rubber tubing for a French bow is also not the greatest idea as you can develop some poor technique habits.

Really, have you told Hal Robinson about this discovery? :eek:

Also, Switching Frogs is no way to use a Bow. The German Bow is longer in general and with a smaller head. This is because of how it's used. The French Bow has a larger head and a shorter stick because that is what works.

A German bow stick with a French Frog will feel pretty horrible in comparison to a real French bow of any quality.

As far as stopping vibrations, when your body touches the bass, you are stopping vibrations. Try playing with thought instead of body, hands and fingers. The notes will ring more freely.. :D

I play with a Bow quiver. Some say it dampens the sound like a Mute. I say it kills unwanted overtones!! Also, I am used to putting my Bow in it for safety and convenience. Rarely in my world does someone have a better Bass on stage than me in the Orchestra with or without a Bow Quiver.

It's all about comfort, Grips, Rubber, Quivers, etc..

If you want a better sound, buy better instruments (and/or Restore the one you have to optimum condition if it's worth it), take more lessons, practice more and GET OFF THE COMPUTER>>>:mad::mad:

[Richard Prowse]

Good question but you wouldn't be able to just slap on a different frog without altering the camber of the stick, which for a French to German conversion would be fairly drastic (or visa versa).
My German frog was not just 'slapped on'. In fact, the luthier did a lot of research and altered the frog to suit the bow.

[Thomas Erickson]

If you want a better sound, buy better instruments (and/or Restore the one you have to optimum condition if it's worth it), take more lessons, practice more and GET OFF THE COMPUTER>>>:mad::mad:

Yeah people, really, I mean quit spending so much time contributing to Ken's forum; nobody ever learned anything by sharing and discussing their knowledge and ideas with others! :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic, sort of - the idea of a grip damping the stick hadn't occurred to me. Interesting. I don't play French bows much, but I guess a comparison might be if the frog and stick on a German bow were wrapped in leather - I don't think that would be very nice... seems like it would feel pretty dead and clumsy.

[Ken Smith]

Yeah people, really, I mean quit spending so much time contributing to Ken's forum; nobody ever learned anything by sharing and discussing their knowledge and ideas with others! :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic, sort of - the idea of a grip damping the stick hadn't occurred to me. Interesting. I don't play French bows much, but I guess a comparison might be if the frog and stick on a German bow were wrapped in leather - I don't think that would be very nice... seems like it would feel pretty dead and clumsy.

Hey, doesn't your hand dampen the sound of the Stick when you hold the Bow or do we all need our fingers re-graduated to sound its best?:eek:

You guys are so overly concerned about the small picture that you overlook the big picture. Give me a Sartory and make it comfortable in my hand and who cares what the grip is doing. It has a Million dollar sound on it's own so now it's down a few sheckles in output.. lol

[Thomas Erickson]

Hey, doesn't your hand dampen the sound of the Stick when you hold the Bow or do we all need our fingers re-graduated to sound its best?:eek:



I don't think the grip is going to damp the stick enough to make a significant difference in the sound produced, unless we're talking about some kind of laboratory situation. :p But it might change the way the bow feels in the hand, yes?

Ken - how much do you charge for the KSB signature finger-regraduation service? Does it make a difference if the customer has started the procedure and bailed out? I mean my knives and chisels are sharp, but I didn't have the nerve... :D

[Ken Smith]

I don't think the grip is going to damp the stick enough to make a significant difference in the sound produced, unless we're talking about some kind of laboratory situation. :p But it might change the way the bow feels in the hand, yes?

Ken - how much do you charge for the KSB signature finger-regraduation service? Does it make a difference if the customer has started the procedure and bailed out? I mean my knives and chisels are sharp, but I didn't have the nerve... :D

lol..

Is there an actual serious question here? It's Friday, help me out here..:o

[Terry McDougal]

Ken, do you play with a German or French style quiver?

Well, for once, I disagree with everything you say.
Go easy on him Mr Smith!;)

What's all this about German and French style quivers? I thought they were all the same. Maybe you were talking about nervous twitches in these two countries?

[Ken Smith]

Easy on the Caffeine at night. Some of us have to sleep. I woke up with this voice telling me, "go on line, go in line, go on line"... :o:eek:

[Bin Hire]

[quote=wayne holmes;20845Will somebody please tell us what in tarnation tartan felicitaions means?--does it have to do with the new liquid rosin that's used on quivers?[/quote]
Did you mean 'tartan felicitations'?
A simple offer of good wishes and hopes for happiness from those who wear the tartin (kilts).