Going mold-less

[Thomas Erickson]

So I was reading what Luciano Golia has to say and checking out his photos...

Apparently he has had good luck making basses without a mold and thinks that it makes for an instrument with less internal tension and thus better sound...


Thoughts?

[Adrian Levi]

a link - http://www.myspace.com/lucianogolia

[Ken Smith]

I watched Arnold along the way in building my Bass. He makes a basic form, puts in the Blocks, bends in the Ribs and glues them in place. After the Ribs were on the Blocks I believe he removed it from the Form and then made the Top and Back. I think the Top was done first and put on the assembly and then the Back. This way he can fit the plates (top and back) to the form of the Rib/Block assemble and not force anything together. The original exact design shape is slightly altered along the way (very slightly) as the wood of the assembly settles in. The Purfling is done last so as to give ample room and time for everything to settle and be built stress free. This is not a mold but rather a method of building from the blocks. The Form is only used to the initial assembly of the Ribs and Blocks. From there on, it's a free style build but the better the maker (and Arnold is one of the best) the better and more uniform the Bass which includes well seasoned and acclimated woods.

He dries the woods first in open air and later indoors. Then the billet is joined and glued in the center to acclimate again as he 'slow builds' the rib/block assembly.

Maybe Arnold will chime in and correct me here and there or add to my interpretation of his method.

[Thomas Erickson]

Thanks Adrian, I meant to post that.

[Thomas Erickson]

Actually, this (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35963&id=100000734232629) is what I meant to post. My bad.

[Thomas Erickson]

I watched Arnold along the way in building my Bass. He makes a basic form, puts in the Blocks, bends in the Ribs and glues them in place. After the Ribs were on the Blocks I believe he removed it from the Form and then made the Top and Back. I think the Top was done first and put on the assembly and then the Back. This way he can fit the plates (top and back) to the form of the Rib/Block assemble and not force anything together. The original exact design shape is slightly altered along the way (very slightly) as the wood of the assembly settles in. The Purfling is done last so as to give ample room and time for everything to settle and be built stress free. This is not a mold but rather a method of building from the blocks. The Form is only used to the initial assembly of the Ribs and Blocks. From there on, it's a free style build but the better the maker (and Arnold is one of the best) the better and more uniform the Bass which includes well seasoned and acclimated woods.

He dries the woods first in open air and later indoors. Then the billet is joined and glued in the center to acclimate again as he 'slow builds' the rib/block assembly.

Maybe Arnold will chime in and correct me here and there or add to my interpretation of his method.

Makes sense. It looks like what Golia is doing is starting with the top as the foundation though and attaching the top and bottom blocks and the corner blocks/c-bout ribs (already together), and then bending the top/bottom ribs to fit - adding the back on last, and then cutting the plates to the final outline.

[Ken Smith]

Actually, this (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35963&id=100000734232629) is what I meant to post. My bad.

A Facebook Login page? Your post needs to be deleted, right?

[Thomas Erickson]

A Facebook Login page? Your post needs to be deleted, right?

No, it is a link to a page of photos. You just need to be logged in to Facebook to view it.

[Ken Smith]

No, it is a link to a page of photos. You just need to be logged in to Facebook to view it.

And if you are not a member? It's just a blind link. Please keep links here limited to free and easy ones that do not require a membership or audition.

[Thomas Erickson]

And if you are not a member? It's just a blind link. Please keep links here limited to free and easy ones that do not require a membership or audition.

What exactly is the threat? It's a set of photos attached to the maker's Facebook page, linked here for the purpose of discussion.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

I watched Arnold along the way in building my Bass. He makes a basic form, puts in the Blocks, bends in the Ribs and glues them in place. After the Ribs were on the Blocks I believe he removed it from the Form and then made the Top and Back. I think the Top was done first and put on the assembly and then the Back. This way he can fit the plates (top and back) to the form of the Rib/Block assemble and not force anything together. The original exact design shape is slightly altered along the way (very slightly) as the wood of the assembly settles in. The Purfling is done last so as to give ample room and time for everything to settle and be built stress free. This is not a mold but rather a method of building from the blocks. The Form is only used to the initial assembly of the Ribs and Blocks. From there on, it's a free style build but the better the maker (and Arnold is one of the best) the better and more uniform the Bass which includes well seasoned and acclimated woods.

He dries the woods first in open air and later indoors. Then the billet is joined and glued in the center to acclimate again as he 'slow builds' the rib/block assembly.

Maybe Arnold will chime in and correct me here and there or add to my interpretation of his method.
Ken, this is pretty accurate except that I don't remove the rib form until I have installed the back plate. Then I let things settle in the rib assembly while I make the top plate. Once the linings are in, the rib assembly becomes quite rigid, and I use this outline to trace the final top shape.

I spent a few days visiting the Poelmann shop in Germany several years ago, and they do not use any forms. Michael Krahmer told me that his reason is that they make so many models that they would have forms all over the place, and every time they built a new model they would have to create another one. They use a simple template system, and build from the top to the back. I also have used this system for my Ergonomic basses, because I'm less concerned with symmetry. Personally, I think it is more difficult than using a rib form or mold.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Today I start making a bass, I must remember that I don't start at the base of the bass, but at the top:confused:

Now I know why it took me so many years to build my house. I didn't start with the roof!:cool:
I've always wondered if you could build a house the way you build a boat--build it upside down and then flip it over...

[Thomas Erickson]

I've always wondered if you could build a house the way you build a boat--build it upside down and then flip it over...

Intriguing idea; perhaps something like that would work well if building the house into the side of a fairly steep incline. Kind of a half A-frame sort of deal, built at the bottom of the slope and then flipped into place with a big winch or something.


As for basses, I was thinking about it and it seems like a cornerless model might be a nice candidate for a free-form (form-free?) method. How about it Wayne? A nice big cornerless bass from that slab-cut cedar and something equally funky for the back/ribs... I'll swap you for my old archtop that you were eyeballing a while back... :D

[Thomas Erickson]

Thomas-it's a deal! You ship yours first. I already have a big round whiskey barrel for my mold.:D

I don't even know what this means... I take it your whiskey barrel is just about empty? :eek:

[Matthew Tucker]

Not quite sure what to make of Luciano's method. I don't know if this is how he builds all the time or if that was an experiment. I can't imagine carving an arch without an outline to work to, and flipping the thing over would be even more cumbersome than it already is. He adds linings to the ribs first, then trims them to match the blocks. I can't see how this is really an improvement on established methods.

I don't mind the idea of a certain lack of symmetry because I think it adds to beauty. But you can get this anyway even with a "mould" build. It seems like it is complicating things a bit - but perhaps it's easier than it looks, and perhaps the results are worth it?

Is he a member here yet?

[Thomas Erickson]

Clearly he adds the c-bout linings before attaching them, but I wasn't able to tell at what point he adds the rest. I think maybe after the ribs are glued to the blocks?