Standing/Sitting

[Richard Prowse]

Okay, along with what bow you choose to use (German or French), whether you choose to stand or sit while playing is one of the most defining decisions a double bass player makes. I know most of us do a bit of both, depending on the situation we are playing in. For me standing is the way to go. I've experimented with a lot of different sitting positions lately, but standing always wins out for me. Okay, sitting offers more stability. The main problem with standing is balancing or controlling the bass while you move around the fingerboard. I've also thought a lot lately about how some sitting positions slant the bass back more, making the bowed string closer to being parallel (well more like 45 degress really)to the floor and, thus, letting gravity help to keep the bow on the string.
After all of my experimenting, I still prefer to stand. Why? Probably because I feel I can get more physical with the bass, and get my body more involved with the music. Personally, I'm prepared to sacrifce a little accuracy for that.
I'd be really interested in all your thoughts on this topic.

[Nathan Parker]

Sitting is for Cellists.


But seriously, folks, I prefer standing. The jazz world seems to have more standers. I don't know how it is in classical-land, but I seem to see lots of folks stoolin' it over there. I like the angle that sitting provides, but I was just never able to get comfortable on a stool. Probably because I'm too fat for stools. That being said, there are many bassists who I admire and respect who sit while they play. Whatever floats your boat.

I should add that I do use a laborie end pin, which seems to bring the bass to an angle that is closer to sitting. I really like the way it places the bass, and I am hooked. I feel it allows you to get more weight in your left hand, although pizz might be a little more fatigue inducing. But, I haven't minded it. You should get a laborie endpin, Richard. Do it.

[Richard Prowse]

I should add that I do use a laborie end pin, which seems to bring the bass to an angle that is closer to sitting. I really like the way it places the bass, and I am hooked. I feel it allows you to get more weight in your left hand, although pizz might be a little more fatigue inducing. But, I haven't minded it. You should get a laborie endpin, Richard. Do it.
Well Nathan, I thought about those end pins, but lately I think I prefer my bass more vertical. In the end I don't think having the bass on more of an angle really helped my bowing, although bouncing was easier. I know what you mean about the pizz being easier on a vertical bass too. Still, I'd love to give one of these end pins a go!

[Nathan Parker]

I encourage you to do it, Richard. I've heard people make a big deal out of drilling holes in the block and how scary it is, but when I talked to my luthier about it, she really didn't bat an eye at it. Not that big of a deal, it seems.

Don't think, just do. That motto always seems to work out well for me.

[Richard Prowse]

So you can't get one that fits in the existing hole? What if you don't like it?

[Nathan Parker]

In my experience, having the laborie hole drilled in the bass does not affect the tone of the bass when not in use. I still have gotz endpin for others to use when they play my bass, and I use it from time to time, and it sounds just like it did before the hole was there. Of course, if it does bother you, you can just have your luthier plug the hole, which is not all that hard, as is my understanding.

Just look at Matthew's thread about restoring that old French bass. If they can do that, plugging a nicely drilled hole is a jiff.

[Ken Smith]

In my experience, having the laborie hole drilled in the bass does not affect the tone of the bass when not in use. I still have gotz endpin for others to use when they play my bass, and I use it from time to time, and it sounds just like it did before the hole was there. Of course, if it does bother you, you can just have your luthier plug the hole, which is not all that hard, as is my understanding.

Just look at Matthew's thread about restoring that old French bass. If they can do that, plugging a nicely drilled hole is a jiff.

Reach down and feel the air pushing thru either of the holes when not plugged. I had a bass come in and when I plugged the angled hole, it was much louder then when it was down firing the air out of the bass.

[Nathan Parker]

Reach down and feel the air pushing thru either of the holes when not plugged. I had a bass come in and when I plugged the angled hole, it was much louder then when it was down firing the air out of the bass.

Well, there you go, Richard. Just plug the hole if you don't like it. Seems to be a simple procedure.

Do it.

[Richard Prowse]

Thanks Nathan, but I don't know how keen I am on those bent pins yet.

[Thomas Erickson]

Thanks Nathan, but I don't know how keen I am on those bent pins yet.

You could try KC Strings "tilt block" apparatus, if the hesitation is just on boring the hole. It seems well thought out and should be simple enough for a handy bassist to install himself...

[Richard Prowse]

Thanks Thomas. Actually I came home from work to practise, late yesterday afternoon - it was very hot and humid. I felt tired, so I pulled out my stool and reset my spike on the second notch. I'd watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR6eskEN0jo&feature=related)earlier in the day and have often sat like this in the past. Without thinking about NHOP, or the video, I assumed the same sitting position. It felt very comfortable and I finished up practising for twice as long as I had intended. Mission accomplished, I guess. It's good when you learn from the masters!

[Dave Martin]

I'd watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR6eskEN0jo&feature=related)earlier in the day
That was so good it hurt my feelings... Time to spend a few hours watching some more of that sort of thing...

[Thomas Erickson]

I dig the playing for sure, but the technique makes me say hmmmmm...

Guess I'd have to see him playing some different stuff to "get" how it works as an all-around approach.

[Richard Prowse]

I dig the playing for sure, but the technique makes me say hmmmmm...

Guess I'd have to see him playing some different stuff to "get" how it works as an all-around approach.
Thomas, my friend, this guy could pizz quavers at 336bpm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xf-1h7LnU&p=8F05FB7AA05C9DDA&playnext=1&index=24). Seems to me that the technique was working. This way of sitting works fine with the bow too.

[Dave Martin]

I dig the playing for sure, but the technique makes me say hmmmmm...

Guess I'd have to see him playing some different stuff to "get" how it works as an all-around approach.
I've listened to his recordings for years, but never watched a video. As someone whose lack of technique is essentially derived from the Simandl book, I found that way he plays to be enormously odd, but it works quite well for him. In fact, This thread makes me want to ask more questions about posture and other variants. So I shall...

[Richard Prowse]

Technique, in the end is about what works. You've got to be comfortable too, otherwise you won't want to play for too long. When I was young I studied violin at university. There seemed to be a million rules about how you should hold the bl00dy thing. I never felt comfortable; and I was too worried about how I was holding the violin and the bow to concentrate on making music. In the end it really put me off. When I took up the bass I had to work most things out for myself (especially on electric, because there didn't seem to be any good teachers around, or many instruction books - this was the 1970s). I only made one rule - it's not allowed to hurt. I approached my technique from what I had learnt about string instruments, and by watching people who played well. Over the years I've put in quite a bit of time studying how NHOP plays because I just love his playing. I find his approach very logical. I'd be very interested to know more specifically what people don't like about his technique. I can tell you that how he sits is very comfortable.

[Thomas Erickson]

Thomas, my friend, this guy could pizz quavers at 336bpm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xf-1h7LnU&p=8F05FB7AA05C9DDA&playnext=1&index=24). Seems to me that the technique was working. This way of sitting works fine with the bow too.

Oh, I don't mean to knock his technique or anything - and sure, whatever works works, even if it looks odd!

But at the same time, there is much to be learned from established techniques too; I think a lot of times we (bass players especially) get ahead of ourselves thinking "well techniques A-Z don't seem to be working for me, I must be unique or a genius" and off we go into developing the next great method, or just abandoning the pursuit of real technique, when the original problem was that we simply didn't understand (or weren't properly taught) some fine, underlying qualities or points of the basic techniques. Kind of like how a great artist throws paint at a wall and it is a masterpiece, but if I throw paint at a wall I'm a vandal (or a retard). :D

[Richard Prowse]

Oh, I don't mean to knock his technique or anything - and sure, whatever works works, even if it looks odd!

But at the same time, there is much to be learned from established techniques too; I think a lot of times we (bass players especially) get ahead of ourselves thinking "well techniques A-Z don't seem to be working for me, I must be unique or a genius" and off we go into developing the next great method, or just abandoning the pursuit of real technique, when the original problem was that we simply didn't understand (or weren't properly taught) some fine, underlying qualities or points of the basic techniques. Kind of like how a great artist throws paint at a wall and it is a masterpiece, but if I throw paint at a wall I'm a vandal (or a retard). :D
Thomas, I'm listening (well, reading actually) to what you say. I've certainly never considered myself a misunderstood genius! Don't tell the others, but I'm just not very bright. Yes, established techniques stop us reinventing the wheel - a wise man seriously regards what has gone before; what tools the master has chosen. Personally though, as I get older (still younger than Ken), I see the power of intuition - granted I have been playing string instruments for a little over 50 years and maybe I've learnt a technical trick or two. I personally think that good technique is all about remembering the basics...
Am I in tune? Am I playing in time? Am I phrasing? What the hell am I trying to say?

[Bin Hire]

Thomas, I'm listening (well, reading actually) to what you say. I've certainly never considered myself a misunderstood genius! Don't tell the others, but I'm just not very bright. Yes, established techniques stop us reinventing the wheel - a wise man seriously regards what has gone before; what tools the master has chosen. Personally though, as I get older (still younger than Ken), I see the power of intuition - granted I have been playing string instruments for a little over 50 years and maybe I've learnt a technical trick or two. I personally think that good technique is all about remembering the basics...
Am I in tune? Am I playing in time? Am I phrasing? What the hell am I trying to say?
Richard, good technique is also knowing the fingerboard, knowing how to get a good sound with bow and fingers.

[Pete Wood]

I realise I'm coming in late on this debate...

I reckon it's horses for courses. In an orchestra, standing just looks dumb. Vice versa in a band. I think I play better arco standing, but with my current main gig, worship leading and playing at the same time (where I play about 40% arco), sitting would be bad for my voice, so I stand.

BTW, what are these angled endpins people are talking about?

P.s. I like NHOP salute to Jaco Pastorius in the middle. No can dispute his virtuosity, but like Jaco, I've never really liked his tone.

[Eduardo Barbosa]

I play jazz standing, but in my humble opinion I almost feel like in orchestra you should sit....

[Richard Prowse]

I play jazz standing, but in my humble opinion I almost feel like in orchestra you should sit....
Yes, it would be silly to be the only person standing.

[Ken Smith]

Yes, it would be silly to be the only person standing.

I just came from rehearsal for Beeth. 9th, and we have 7 basses. 6 of them, including me, sit on our own personal stools. The 7th guy stands. His choice. Better if he's in the back than standing in the middle of us. ;)

[Eduardo Barbosa]

I also think that if you stand, maybe you should be behind the other people.
In my Orchestra there are 6 of us. 3 sit and 3 stand, and we are all mixed up.
Curiously the 3 that sit are the guys, and the 3 that stand are the girls!!! I am kind of afraid to ask why they stand! maybe something to do with being a woman... who knows!!!?
Anyway, for the last concert of the season I am the acting principal and we got another girl to fill in. So... now it's me sitting and 5 women standing!!!
In my opinion it just looks wrong. to me it looks a lot more elegant when the bassists are sitting.

[Ken Smith]

I also think that if you stand, maybe you should be behind the other people.
In my Orchestra there are 6 of us. 3 sit and 3 stand, and we are all mixed up.
Curiously the 3 that sit are the guys, and the 3 that stand are the girls!!! I am kind of afraid to ask why they stand! maybe something to do with being a woman... who knows!!!?
Anyway, for the last concert of the season I am the acting principal and we got another girl to fill in. So... now it's me sitting and 5 women standing!!!
In my opinion it just looks wrong. to me it looks a lot more elegant when the bassists are sitting.

Acting principal? Well, as Principal you can ask them each why they are standing. Now you have everyone wondering.:confused:

Most of the Female players I have seen sat and played. I think Girls stand and women sit from what I recall over the last few years.

Yes, ask them.. lol..

The Principal must know what's happening in his section and as for 'Acting', rehearse your lines!:)

[Richard Prowse]

I think Girls stand and women sit from what I recall over the last few years.

Hey Ken, sounds like you're a bit of an expert on women - a valuable gift!