Opinions - best tuning gears?

[Thomas Erickson]

So - given the choice, what modern (currently available I should say) machines would you have on your bass?


Opinions on what's the best (or how some of the better choices compare)?

[Adam Linz]

Hey Thomas. I recently put new plates and tuners on my bass and I did a lot of research to see what I could find. I found that Rubners look like the best but had a hard time trying to get what I wanted. After trying to email Rubner directly in Germany I kinda gave up on those. Then it was onto Gallery Strings in London. Their web site makes you believe that they carry about a dozen or so different models, but at the end of the day I was told that they only make their Baker model which is a shame because all of the other models were killin. they were all pretty expensive as well. So after much debate I went with a set of Busans from Kolstein. They were not the easiest to install but if you have a good luthier with some patience they are a good quality for the money. I'm very happy with them and they compliment the plates I had made.
I spent almost $1200 on tuners, plates, and labor but I think they will last for a long time. My bass is a violin shaped Andreas Morelli. Some people thought it was a lot of money to spend on a middle ground bass but I think you should always get what you want when it comes to your bass and it's health. Since I've put my tuners on I've seen some amazing custom gears on several hand made basses. I wish I had an arsenal of basses to put them on. Besides performing well they add something to an instrument that is hard to describe. A personality. Anyways, best of luck in your search . Adam Linz

[Arnold Schnitzer]

I've been using the Sloanes from Gage. I like them much better since they started making them with the lightweight aluminum shafts. If you like really fast tuning these are not for you.

[Thomas Erickson]

I've been using the Sloanes from Gage. I like them much better since they started making them with the lightweight aluminum shafts. If you like really fast tuning these are not for you.

I've wondered about that before, since I haven't seen the aluminum version yet - so is it just the shaft that is aluminum then? I like most aspects of the original Sloanes, including the ratio, but the weight is a bit of a nagging issue. Do you think there's any compromise in feel or durability with the aluminum?

[Arnold Schnitzer]

No compromise. The shafts are anodized to match the brass color. The only thing is, if you mount them all the way through the scroll, the opposite side will be silver. I don't find this objectionable, since it polishes up to a nice sheen that goes well with the stainless steel worm gear. And on new basses, I don't drill through. I think there is about a 25% weight reduction.

[Ken Smith]

I like the quality of them but I do not like the look of the mounting plates under the gears. Also, I do not like how slow they tune. I too have used Hat Peg gears and there are the fastest to change strings but not the easiest to tune. Two of the very expensive old Italian basses in the Philly Orchestra have old Hat Peg gears on them and the owners/players are fine with it.

Personally, I love the old English gears, the real Bakers and the older versions of them, possibly by other English gear makers of the 19th century. Any copy of these that actually work and turn smoothly are my kind of bass gears. Nothing I have seen beats the Baker's or similar period English gears.

If a Bass is French, it should have French gears on it and repaired to work as well as possible. If English, English gears or something close to it.

For German or Italian; English gears on the Italian if possible and German on the German is my like. Some finer German gears look French but they are German make but French 'style', not French made. I have one old German bass with actual French gears and they will stay on. No great bargain but they work. My Prescott had French gears as well.

As long as they work or can be made to work and they look ok, leave them be.

[Thomas Erickson]

Nice to know that the Sloane shafts are anodized. Like Ken, I'm not a big fan of the look of the plate - but I do like the high ratio. I don't generally have a need to change strings in a hurry, and I've spent enough time playing (other people's) basses with lurching gears that the slow tuning is kind of nice. :)

[Matthew Tucker]

IMO if you're not using the cheap string winder attachment for cordless screwdriver that All Hail sells, you're making string changes a harder job than it needs to be.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Sloanes now come with a free winder that goes on your drill. I have quite a collection.

[Ruben E garcia]

I've been using the Sloanes from Gage. I like them much better since they started making them with the lightweight aluminum shafts. If you like really fast tuning these are not for you.


Are you refering to this:

Irving Sloane Bass Machines By David Gage???
(http://www.davidgage.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=33)

http://www.davidgage.com/store/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=50c16d880652e9acf74d999f7d9e3e5e

[Ruben E garcia]

Question for you guys... are Ebony ones considered the best ones??? the could be quite expensive...

[Ken Smith]

Question for you guys... are Ebony ones considered the best ones??? the could be quite expensive...

No, the Rubner HatPegs to me are much less expensive than any of the higher grade Baker type copies or the Sloans. The Ebony is cheap as compared to high grade machining. The Rubners are the same gears as the metal ones but made to house the Ebony or Rosewood shafts. I have had both and they are in my book, medium grade machines. They will only work as good as the 'machined' Gear/Worm parts are. The Ebony shaft just holds the string. Also, the installer has to drill the hole in the wood for the string.

[Thomas Erickson]

^^^ What he said.

I think the basic Rubners are good simple gears for the money (cheeeeep), but not much more. The hatpeg versions seem rather pointless to me - more money for something that usually looks goofy. :rolleyes:

[Thomas Erickson]

Anybody used both Sloanes and the Krutz gears and want to compare?

[Ken Smith]

Anybody used both Sloanes and the Krutz gears and want to compare?

I would take the Krutz as they tune easier and quicker. Sometimes you get a slightly sticky gear in the set but that can be adjusted.

I just like them better and also, I think they are slighter cheaper. They are heavier maybe but not that big of a difference.

[Thomas Erickson]

Having had the sloanes but not Krutz, I would not have guessed the Krutz were so heavy from how they look. Interesting.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Anybody used both Sloanes and the Krutz gears and want to compare?
I hate to disagree with our esteemed host, but to me the Sloanes win hands-down over the Krutz gears (which I hear are out of production anyway).

[Ken Smith]

I hate to disagree with our esteemed host, but to me the Sloanes win hands-down over the Krutz gears (which I hear are out of production anyway).

It's ok. I know you would say that and yes, the Krutz are gone now from what I hear.

Still, style wise I liked the Krutz gears a lot and put them on several of my basses when I could. I just don't like the look and shape of the Plates that the Sloans are mounted on. They are the smoothest available and tune at 50:1 ratio as opposed to the 40:1 (?) Krutz.

When changing strings by hand it takes much longer with the Sloans and that to me is a royal pain. My first few basses had German Gears, Hatpegs and German made French style gears. I did just fine with those at 20-24:1 ratio (guessing) and didn't have a problem tuning them.

Show me some good looking Baker Gears on or off mounting plates and I will jump on them even if under 40:1 ratio.

Playing in tune is much harder than tuning a bass for me so I go with looks and smoothness of turning.

[davidseidel]

I'm just back in Australia after the best part of a year spent in UK and during that time I paid a visit to Martyn Bailey - a very highly experienced maker and repairer who certainly has paid his dues.
I played one of his own instruments and found it very impressive in the English tradition.
Thought his tuners might be of interest - seemed ideal to me FWIW....

http://www.mjbl.co.uk/doubl-bass-machines.html

[Ken Smith]

I'm just back in Australia after the best part of a year spent in UK and during that time I paid a visit to Martyn Bailey - a very highly experienced maker and repairer who certainly has paid his dues.
I played one of his own instruments and found it very impressive in the English tradition.
Thought his tuners might be of interest - seemed ideal to me FWIW....

http://www.mjbl.co.uk/doubl-bass-machines.html

With shipping at today's rates, that's close to $550-600 with shipping to the states, estimated. Most Baker gear models work good. Some great and some not so great but they are a tradition.

I have old/original gears on both my Tarr and Panormo school basses. They look great and work good as well. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/panormo-school/images/scroll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/tarr/images/scroll-left.jpg

Arnold, send me some of those extra winders you have. I had you put Sloans on one of my Pollmanns before and never got the winder! :(

[davidseidel]

Yes, Ken, agreed that the old hand made ones are hard to beat but wasn't this thread about finding what's available on the market today?
Sloan's seem have the consensus aside from the slow tuning issue
Just thought members might be interested in Martyn's work anyway aside from the tuners, he's worked for all the big English dealers etc and on cointless rstorations of valuable basses and in addition makes very nice instruments in the English tradition.

[Ken Smith]

Yes, Ken, agreed that the old hand made ones are hard to beat but wasn't this thread about finding what's available on the market today?
Sloan's seem have the consensus aside from the slow tuning issue
Just thought members might be interested in Martyn's work anyway aside from the tuners, he's worked for all the big English dealers etc and on cointless rstorations of valuable basses and in addition makes very nice instruments in the English tradition.

Yes, they look nice but quite pricy. If the Dollar was the Pound, then it's a different thing. Arnold put a set of gears from Gallery on the Storioni copy he made for me and I had another set on some other bass that came thru from them as well. I don't know from pictures which are better but I know of Martyn's gears.

[Thomas Erickson]

Maybe a neat option on Sloanes (or any high ratio machine) would be for the key to have a little hex "nub" on it - then you could use a drill or one of those cheapo electric screwdrivers without an extra bit. I don't think it would look odd or anything.

[Geoff Chalmers]

I also wanted to recommend Martyn Baileys machines. They really are beautifully made and work perfectly.

[JoeyNaeger]

Does anyone have any experience with the tuners sold by gallery strings? They have a large selection and most can be used with blind holes.

http://www.gallerystrings.com/accessories/machine_heads/index.htm

[Ken Smith]

Does anyone have any experience with the tuners sold by gallery strings? They have a large selection and most can be used with blind holes.

http://www.gallerystrings.com/accessories/machine_heads/index.htm

I have had two basses with gears that were put on new basses when they were made. They worked great.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/lott/images/lott_mod11.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/schnitzer-smith/images/scroll-left.jpg

[Matthew Tucker]

They look lovely on the website, but when I contacted them, some time ago, i was given the impression that not all the models shown are available. I don't imagine turnover is very quick, so they probably make on order. I may be wrong.

[Ken Smith]

They look lovely on the website, but when I contacted them, some time ago, i was given the impression that not all the models shown are available. I don't imagine turnover is very quick, so they probably make on order. I may be wrong.

I doubt that they 'make' the gears or does almost anyone else that 'sells' gears. Usually, the 'have them made' and sell their 'branded' gears.

This is what I believe personally.

When Arnold was making my bass, he called them for a particular gear and found only one or two styles were available, period. I don't know if that was going to change down the road but, now IS down the road and you received a similar reply.

So, if they have what you like, buy them. The other choice for similar looking gears are from Martyn Bailey. I don't know who or how his are made but I am sure coming from him, they will be at least as good.

I have these gears coming in from Hungary on basses made for me or old basses restored there that need gears. They work 'ok' and need a bit of going over to be smoothed out. I am not 100% where they are made. Either in eastern Europe or China in my guess. Maybe, I will bring some sets in but I have yet to even ask for prices for just the gears. I am just happy to see them on the basses.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/northern-italian/images/scroll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/marconcini-model/images/scroll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/old-hungarian/images/scroll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/old-hungarian/images/scroll-back.jpg

[JoeyNaeger]

Okay, thanks for the input. Those look quite nice Ken. I got a cheap vibe from the website, but maybe that's from the low res photos. That's unfortunate they don't stock all the models, but that's not surprising honestly. The Martyn Bailey tuners are gorgeous, but I'm not really hip with drilling through holes. I do however like that you can adjust length of the worm gear shaft. I guess I'd like to see the two designs combined.

[Matthew Tucker]

What have you got against tuners that go all the way through?

[JoeyNaeger]

Structurally inferior...doesn't look as nice... I guess it's okay, but I don't think it's the best way to do it.

[Matthew Tucker]

contact michael abarientos in the phillipines. his tuners are nicely made, if a bit heavy. i use on my basses and very happy. the price is right too at around $300 a set. He supplies to Kolsteins i'm pretty sure.

[Ken Smith]

These are the Tuners I prefer now. I have had them put on 3 of my basses already and love them. New model of Antiqued Rubner gears.