help with bass ID

[igor kondur]

Here some pic. of instrument
Any ideas?
thanks)

[igor kondur]

more pic of bass

[Ken Smith]

Looks German to me. The Dovetail Neck joint in the Block might be a Mittenwald production. Wood, Varnish and Gears all look like a German bass to me.

I have no idea of the Maker but looks like an early 20th century made instrument.

Looks like a nice bass in need of a full and deserving restoration.

[igor kondur]

Thanks,Ken)

[igor kondur]

more pic. of scroll

[igor kondur]

Unfortunately,I have no info. ab sound of this bass-the owner lives 1500 miles from Moscow(and he is not a bass player)
I must ''take the A train''))

[Ken Smith]

I have no idea what it is Igor, but I find it to be one of the most intriguing basses I have ever seen a picture of.

Those are good gears-I have had a couple of basses with them and they worked very smoothly

A picture of the box(complete scroll) would be good

-Looks more Italian -could we please see the rest of the neck and scroll-

Wayne, look at the Neck/Dovetail joint in one of the pics and the varnish how it scratches. This has nothing to do with Italian other than the corners and basic model. This is a 100% Germanic bass. Like the ones you sold that YOU thought were Italian but were actually German as well.

[Ken Smith]

Ken, You can question my knowledge, my sanity, but don't ever question my honesty!

I have had two only two basses that were passed onto me as Italian- Both of them were appraised by the Kschier Brothers -who were German. They stated that they believed these 2 basses( I have only sold one, so your "ones" is incorrect.)to be Italian. When I sold the one bass, I told the new owner that the papers that I have say Italian, but I can't prove that it is Italian. I further say that both of my basses that are supposed to be Italian feel, look and sound different from any German bass that I have seen in person or picture of.

Ken, just because you don't know what something is - you don't have to say it's Germanic- It's okay to say I don't know-you know.

Do and sell what you like as you like. The 2 basses you showed me calling them Italian before ONE of them was sold, were German basses to my knowledge. Not every German Bass looks like a factory Juzek by Wilfer. It's a big country that borders France, Austria, Czech regions and extends down near Italy and some of the early makers actually trained in Italy. Still, I have seen many forms of German basses including some that look French and some that look Italian. Looks mean little on where they were made or by whom as it's just a style.

[igor kondur]

Thanks,Gentlemens,for helpful information)

[igor kondur]

I have another two basses for identification,but unfortunately I can't upload pic(external server error 500)((((

[Ken Smith]

One of the two basses -Ken-that I showed you- you have one just like it and you say it's Italian-S***, I'm confused

Joe Wallace played one of my basses in the Pits Sys for many years. He got the bass from the Kschier brothers who claimed it to be Italian-The Kschiers thought it to be Italian, Joe thought it to be Italian ---I trust what Joe and the Kschier brothers thought it to be- You told me that you would have to see the bass to be sure---end of story.

Again, if you don't know what an instrument is, you just can't say it's German

Sorry Igor-whatever your bass is- it looks to be a fine instrument-wish I had it-looks like a very good jazz bass.

What bass of mine would that be that is just like yours that I say is Italian?

[Ken Smith]

I have another two basses for identification,but unfortunately I can't upload pic(external server error 500)((((

I suggest you made a new thread for each bass in question. As you can see, things can go astray fairly easily. :)

For Pic problems, follow Mike's Tutorial; http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=100

[Ken Smith]

Oh, you know, that brown one-

give me a few hours while I find it -Gee sus

An old bass? This one? http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/neapolitan/

[Ken Smith]

Ken, it(THE BASS) was on the thread that you started on Italian Gambas in 2007--in your original post. This could be the one, but I remembered it as the same shade of varnish and everything-looked just like mine which is a more medium brown

Well then, look through that Italian Gamba Thread (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=655) and this page for all of the Italians I have had here (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/high.html) with the exception of a dealers bass with the Santaguilana label. Let me know which one you were referring to and we can talk. Here is fine since it's a modulation of the original Post. His Bass has some ideas from the Italian or Italian copied French model BUT, the Varnish and Dovetail Neck is a screaming LOUD sign that in one dim view should be easily noticed.

I do however have to point out that judging the origin of a Bass by its shade of varnish alone and on the internet is impossible. All of the basses on my web page called Italian are confirmed Italian basses by several authorities and have been seen in person before judging. I go by the style of the make first off as many basses have had touch-up or even over-varnishing or re-varnishing over the years.

There are so many German Basses made in that last 100-150 years copied from the French and Italian makers and styles that more often than not, they are German or Germanic from the neighboring Czech border. Older German/Germanic Basses before the 19th century commercial explosion may have looked more individual and handmade. Still, old Europen basses have to be studied inside and out and in person whenever a bass looks doubtful to a specific school or maker. If I say it's a German bass, it's because I have seen many others just like it that were confirmed German as well as confirmed NOT Italian or French or English, etc. There are many mysteries out there with origins. If I had 10% of every sale of basses that were sold as the wrong origin, instead of German, I would be a very rich man.

I do not in any way question your honesty Wayne. In fact I applaud you for being so open with your ideas and your business. But, players and dealers often, too often actually get caught up in there own enthusiasm and jump to the highest possible order of origin with maybe just a hint of hope in that direction.

[igor kondur]

Thanks,Wayne!)