Info on my 1900's German 7/8 shop bass

[Chris Brunhaver]

First post here. I just wanted to say how much I like this forum. It certainly has a very high "signal to noise ratio", as compared to other forums and is a great resource.

I am planning on selling my current double bass and was hoping for some more information and opinions etc. It is a german "shop" bass without an original label. There is a label from Hammond Ashley, where it was regraduated in 1978 which reads "circa 1900 German 7/8".

It was owned by a teacher and local symphony player who had a fingered low C extension and I've had it about 15 years.

It had some significant bumps and bruises (bassbar crack, new bass bar, a number of cracks in the top on the lower right bout, broken neck block) from an accident (before I owned in and one during when I owned it but was expertly restored by Sarah Balmforth, here in the Seattle area and has been solid since (even living in Northern Nevada for 7 years).

I was a bit curious about what went on with the scroll, which I've attached a picture of the back of. Was this just cracked and glued or was it grafted or something?

It has a round back and gamba corners. Measurements are are a 43.25" string length, 45" body length, ~27.5" lower bout, ~21" upper bout, 7.5" lower ribs, ~7" upper ribs, and a D neck.

Sound-wise, the bass has a huge low end (everything for the A down to the low C really resonates the floor) and a fairly mellow upper range.

I know this is a common question, but are there any clues as to which shop this came out of (by the attached pictures)? It looks quite a bit like Ken's morelli but with a different purfling pattern near the button. Maybe a Wilfer? It looks a lot like this bass: http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=477

On sound alone, I think would be a $15,000 bass, but due to the unknown origin and repair work I was looking to get more like $12,000. I took it to Hammond Ashley and they suggested I take it to Roberson's, Cincinnati bass cellar or David Gage to sell it but I didn't particularly want to ship it that far or pay a 25% commission.

Does this sound reasonable to sell online or should I reconsider that? Any other comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6066/sideyt.th.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6066/sideyt.jpg

http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/7899/machinesandextension.th.jpg

http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/7899/machinesandextension.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2574/backdixo.th.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2574/backdixo.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4581/frontahc.th.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4581/frontahc.jpg

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/6990/backofscroll.th.jpg

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/6990/backofscroll.jpg

[Ken Smith]

Ok, with that re-finish job it looks kind of new. The Gears if original to that bass are probably early 20th century.

Combining the new finish (whatever that shiny stuff is), Top repairs and furniture-like jointed pegbox repair in the Back, I would say this bass is a hard sell for anyone who knows his basses. Couple that with the extra long string length) anything over 42" is long today), makes this an even harder bass to sell.

Now, as far as the reference to Morelli, that is a label/brand, not a maker. The same shop could have made basses for a dozen other brands along the way.

The best ID you have there is that Purfling in the Back and looks to me early-mid 20th Century Germanic, Wilfer shop style. Perhaps made between the two great wars if not after.

Concerning re-finish, anyone who strips a bass from its original varnish is taking away some of its original history. Touch up, match up and re-coat with clear or light color if need be but NEVER strip anything original unless it's 100% unavoidable. Most times, it's the easy way out for the repairman, and I choose that word for them over restorer because restoring should leave the bass as original as possible. If this bass is a c.1925-1935 bass, I see no evidence of it other then the scroll IF original without looking inside the bass. Removing originality removes value as well so keep that in mind for the future.

Check with these 25% dealers that sell basses and see what they think they can sell it for. A friend of mine sent a bass to one of the shops to sell a Few Years ago and it is still un-sold. It was a bass like this in all original condition and selling in the mid-high teens. Still, no sale to date. Add in your bass's condition and that's what you will compete with on the rack or on your own. Over 42" string length cuts out at least 90% of potential buyers. I have sold only one bass that was over 42" in recent and just slightly and it was that Morelli you just referenced. It had a full high grade restoration as shown about a year before it was sold.

[Chris Brunhaver]

Wow, the man himself. Thanks for the quick reply Ken.

On a off topic aside, if I ever strike the lotto, I'd love to buy your J. Hart bass. It is almost the spitting image of my college prof Barry Lieberman's Fendt Maggini, which I had the privilege of playing a number of times during my 5-6 years studying with him. The funny things thing was that, he discussed a number of times selling that bass to his best student when he stopped playing for good. Unfortunately, I am not that best student but still really appreciate the old instruments and the living document of your website showing some of these beauties.

As for my bass, even though I'm a pretty big guy at 6'2" and have big hands, the reason I would sell it would be to get a smaller instrument. The sound is certainly there but you need to work for it a bit in the upper registers, particularly.

I will call these dealers mentioned and see what their thoughts are and I certainly very much appreciate your feedback.

[Chris Brunhaver]

By the way, I took these pictures at night with a flash and so the bass isn't really shiny at all and is somewhat darker in color.

It still had a little bit of shine, as I think the previous owner had a French polish done along with some of the top repairs.

I'll get some pictures in natural light (for the purpose of selling it, at least).

-Chris

[Ken Smith]

Wow, the man himself. Thanks for the quick reply Ken.

On a off topic aside, if I ever strike the lotto, I'd love to buy your J. Hart bass. It is almost the spitting image of my college prof Barry Lieberman's Fendt Maggini, which I had the privilege of playing a number of times during my 5-6 years studying with him. The funny things thing was that, he discussed a number of times selling that bass to his best student when he stopped playing for good. Unfortunately, I am not that best student but still really appreciate the old instruments and the living document of your website showing some of these beauties.

As for my bass, even though I'm a pretty big guy at 6'2" and have big hands, the reason I would sell it would be to get a smaller instrument. The sound is certainly there but you need to work for it a bit in the upper registers, particularly.

I will call these dealers mentioned and see what their thoughts are and I certainly very much appreciate your feedback.

Ok, call them. It can't hurt. On the Lottery, you only need the winning ticket to BUY it. Playing it is less if just for a few brief moments.. ;)

[Chris Brunhaver]

Bah. Just called a couple and, while the guys are extremely nice and professional, and I will wait to hear back from them on their thoughts etc., I don't think it will be worth me shipping a bass trunk to and from and the pay commission etc. If I had a bass at $40k, I think it would be a different story and would definitely consider going that route.

I would rather give a local or west coast guy a deal on what has been a really great instrument for me.