How do you get better on bass?

[Richard Prowse]

I've just returned my 78 Jazz Bass from tenor to standard tuning. I have a hipshot bass extender and I am really enjoying those low notes. When I put my bass in tenor tuning years ago, I took about 4-6 months to relearn the neck in this tuning. I built up a collection of solo pieces too. This never effected my double bass (which is in standard tuning), but I became more familiar with tenor bass guitar notes than standard tuning notes. Now I need to do some practice to readjust the way I see the notes on the bass guitar... won't take long as I'm not afraid of putting in the hours. It made me think though, as a teacher, we're all constantly trying to get better. Maybe we could share ideas on how we strive to improve our 'chops'.
Don't get me wrong, I can go out and do a gig on the standard tuned bass guitar (as I will tonight), but I like to get really inside the instrument.
I'll start my new practice by running major scales all over the instrument... moving to new keys a fourth away. I'll also check out triads. On my DB the most important scales I practise (besides, obviously, arpeggios) are major, jazz minor (for augmented sounds) and diminished. Bach cello suites definitely make me feel like I'm getting better on the big fiddle.
Let's talk about getting better!

[Richard Prowse]

No.1: play in tune, play in time.

[Mike Jenkins]

I play every day and sing what I play. I also play in the dark every now and then to force myself to trust my feel and not look at the fretboard durring difficult parts of songs. I feel this helps me "get into" the instrument.

[Richard Prowse]

I play every day and sing what I play. I also play in the dark every now and then to force myself to trust my feel and not look at the fretboard durring difficult parts of songs. I feel this helps me "get into" the instrument.
Do you sing it and then play it, or play it and then sing it? I think I'd go with sing - play. To get the full benefit you'd need to develop good singing ideas?

[Ken Smith]

Years ago this question was asked about Golf by an avid Golfer trying to improve his game. The answer he got was, "Go to sleep and Dream about it"..lol:D:D

Ok ok.. Serious.. First off.. Have you been classically trained or just wingin' it?

What level player are you?

Are you trying to figure this out on your own?

Are you willing to seek professional help? (not mental unless you need that too..lol)

What kind of music do you play mostly or want to play?

Do you believe that you must first learn the Bass and then play the music you like or do both at the same time without all the hard boring work?

For you Richard I would prescribe two main things.

1) Go read the entire thread "Down Here" (Bull Pit) and see if there is any helpful hints within and please stay awake until you have read and understood everything.:D:D

2) Put on as many records/CDs of the type of Music you like and learn all the Bass Parts until you can't tell your playing/sound from the guy on the recording.:mad::mad:

And that's an Order!!!:eek::eek::eek:

[Richard Prowse]

Years ago this question was asked about Golf by an avid Golfer trying to improve his game. The answer he got was, "Go to sleep and Dream about it"..lol:D:D

Ok ok.. Serious.. First off.. Have you been classically trained or just wingin' it?

What level player are you?

Are you trying to figure this out on your own?

Are you willing to seek professional help? (not mental unless you need that too..lol)

What kind of music do you play mostly or want to play?

Do you believe that you must first learn the Bass and then play the music you like or do both at the same time without all the hard boring work?

For you Richard I would prescribe two main things.

1) Go read the entire thread "Down Here" (Bull Pit) and see if there is any helpful hints within and please stay awake until you have read and understood everything.:D:D

2) Put on as many records/CDs of the type of Music you like and learn all the Bass Parts until you can't tell your playing/sound from the guy on the recording.

And that's an Order!!!
I hope the golfer never plays in the rain... you know... wet dream!
lol:D :D

Hey Ken, I actually read the "Down Here" thread for the first time yesterday. Well, it was Saturday and I was feeling lazy. I think I understood most of it. I saw it as a commentary on improvisation.
Let me explain:
Okay, it's good to study other peoples' playing (as you suggest above) and make it your own. I've had students who can play most of Jaco's stuff note for note, and play most of it very well. Unfortunately Jaco beat them to it by quite a few years, lol! Admittedly, they've imitated a master, but what do Jaco's note choices actually mean to a guy from Tauranga (Down Under) who has a whole different set of experiences to call on? I've met many excellent classical musicians who say thet can't improvise. Why? They know the scales and can understand harmony. They've played the melodies of the masters for years! Why do they have nothing personal that they need to say? How sad their lives must be! If you have time (maybe, a lot) reread my comments on Miles Davis in the down here thread. For years I wondered why everyone raved about Miles. The penny dropped the other day when I was playing 'Kind of Blue' to some aspiring jazz students. Listen to 'Milestones' and then 'Kind of Blue'... in that order. I don't believe that that Coltrane & Cannonball really play that differently (from earlier stuff I've heard of them) to cater for the modal thing. But, snap!, Miles' playing crystallises! You know he's been heading that way for quite a while. Well, he was never the best bebop player, the style didn't sit that comfortable with him. My point is that Miles is so great because he comes in from a different and personal angle. Unfortunately I was not born with Miles' genius and (sometimes... well often) I write crap. But doesn't a good improviser go off at tangents (in a controlled way, of course!) and doesn't he strive, at least sometimes, to have an original thought and then try to justify it? How do you teach how an improviser thinks? You can teach the theory, but where does the 'moment' that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck come from? Ken, in the end we all die. Why not loosen up and be a free spirit (within reason, of course... don't take this advice to work), step out of the 'this is safe' thing, play some wrong notes, oh... and keep an eye on the 'Down Here (NZ)' thread.

[Ken Smith]

Hope it rains?

[Richard Prowse]

Hope it rains?
Lol...
______

[Steve_M]

I got to a point where there was only so much value I got out of practicing. I'm not into widdling or fancy pyrotechnics. As impressed as I am by others who can do that, its just not soul food to me.

However there's nothing to compensate for playing with other musicians who are more skilled and can push me. I'm real lucky in London in that they have kids in diapers here who can run rings around many 70's session pro's thanks to the likes of places like London Music School and Bass/Drum/Vocaltech.

For instance I checked out a funky house band on Thursday (www.myspace.com/drivinmecrazymusic) which had been put together by a kiwi guitarist I know and he'd pretty much skimmed the cream of recent graduates from these schools. The result was an astoundingly tight band.

The drummer in particular blew my mind because he was relentless in belting 11 shades of sh*t out of his kit and EVERY single note was machine precision perfect. I had to get up to the front of the stage and check he wasn't plugged into a click. I've got the guys details so I may drop him a line when I get my own function band sorted out.

Experiences like that are what drive me to do better.

[Richard Prowse]

I got to a point where there was only so much value I got out of practicing. I'm not into widdling or fancy pyrotechnics. As impressed as I am by others who can do that, its just not soul food to me.

However there's nothing to compensate for playing with other musicians who are more skilled and can push me. I'm real lucky in London in that they have kids in diapers here who can run rings around many 70's session pro's thanks to the likes of places like London Music School and Bass/Drum/Vocaltech.

For instance I checked out a funky house band on Thursday (www.myspace.com/drivinmecrazymusic (http://www.myspace.com/drivinmecrazymusic)) which had been put together by a kiwi guitarist I know and he'd pretty much skimmed the cream of recent graduates from these schools. The result was an astoundingly tight band.

The drummer in particular blew my mind because he was relentless in belting 11 shades of sh*t out of his kit and EVERY single note was machine precision perfect. I had to get up to the front of the stage and check he wasn't plugged into a click. I've got the guys details so I may drop him a line when I get my own function band sorted out.

Experiences like that are what drive me to do better.
Well written Cat Chap Wearing A Watermelon Skin On His Head.
Lol :D :D (to quote Ken)

[Richard Prowse]

...I mean Monkey Sucker.

[Steve_M]

...I mean Monkey Sucker.

It makes me appear more sophisticated. People can see I'm my own monkey, a modern monkey with a life of sophistication and elegance...

...a funky mukka who dares to be different.

[stan haskins]

The only way you can be sure to improve at something is through regular application and assessment. Pick one or two topics that you know you need to improve on (you know you need to through assessment - you watch a video of yourself or listen to a recording to see what you are or are not doing: varying articulation, dynamics, note choice, phrase length. whatever floats your boat. You should pick things that are weaknesses in your playing). Stickl with that topic for a good length of time (months, or seasons work well for me because I can pretend there's some mystical aspect to it if I want) aned apply it in every aspect of your practice. I mean that if you're working on injecting contrasting types of articulation to your playing, for instance, you should try to do that in every situation: etudes, chord tones, solo rep, walking lines . . . don't just say "OK, I'm working on articulation now, then I'll go back to my other practice." Assess yourself regularly through taping, videos, whatever. I hate when I lose track of the basic thing I'm working on (usually happens when I get self-indulgent and work on new repertoire at the expense of practicing fundamentals) and then find I've gone backwards the next time I see or hear myself play.

Another thing, Richard, have you thought about "visualizing" the instrument? Can you make a mental picture of how individual lines, melodies, chords, etc, "fit" on your Fender with your new tuning? I'm far from being an expert on playing alternate tunings, but my job requires me to frequently switch between violin, viola, cell, and bass. The only way I can approach that with any confidence is by visualizing where the notes live, and kinesthetically "visualizing" how my body interacts with the instruments in their different playing positions.

Keep us posted. We all think fender basses are cool in standard tuning.

[stan haskins]

And, by the way (or BTW if you want), everyone loves smoking monkeys.

[Steve_M]

And, by the way (or BTW if you want), everyone loves smoking monkeys.

Its the air of disassociated nonchalance you know... ...and our appreciation of the finer things in life such as fine wine, art and enlightened primate company...

[stan haskins]

Yeah, that - and monkeys in iron lungs are just the cutest thing in the world! :p

[Steve_M]

Oh stop!

You're making me blush!!

[Richard Prowse]

Stan, I know Brib thinks that you're very wise... and funny too!

ps. My Fender's back in tenor tuning because it's more fun that way.

[stan haskins]

Stan, I know Brib thinks that you're very wise... and funny too!

ps. My Fender's back in tenor tuning because it's more fun that way.

So, does that mean: "forget I asked the question, as no on else has worried about it since Stanley Clarke fiddled with it in the late 70's"?

Or, more like: "I'd like to know if anyone else is doing it now"?

Or, perhaps: "screw you guys, I can switch effortlessly between and betwixt tenor and standard tuning; can you do that?"?

To my mind, tenor tuning is for banjos. Fenders have a more "distinguished path" (SEE YOUR OWN GREEN LINE)

But, I like to play Simandl. So, what do I know?

[Richard Prowse]

So, does that mean: "forget I asked the question, as no on else has worried about it since Stanley Clarke fiddled with it in the late 70's"?

Or, more like: "I'd like to know if anyone else is doing it now"?

Or, perhaps: "screw you guys, I can switch effortlessly between and betwixt tenor and standard tuning; can you do that?"?

To my mind, tenor tuning is for banjos. Fenders have a more "distinguished path" (SEE YOUR OWN GREEN LINE)

But, I like to play Simandl. So, what do I know?
Victor Wooten. Amazing Grace.

[stan haskins]

good answer.

[Richard Prowse]

good answer.
How many gold stars do I get?

[Richard Prowse]

There is certainly a lot to be learnt from practising the Bach cello suites. I'm working on number 1 - still trying to nail the end of the prelude, but just about got it. I like the way that it takes me out of my comfort zone. I can almost feel myself getting better when I practise Bach.

[Richard Prowse]

Good practice is the key to getting better.

[Richard Prowse]

Want to learn about tone? Listen to Gary.

[David Powell]

Daily rehearsal.

Learn in slow first. Speed it up to faster than you will play it, then slow it down.
Learn it with the bow first, even if it's a pizz part
Learn it with an alternate fingering.
Learn to make both fingerings sound the same
Learn it an octave higher / lower
Learn it backwards (read the score from end to beginning)

Then you know it backwards and forwards.

Play with other musicians as often as possible.

Slowly but surely, I'm getting better.

[Richard Prowse]

Daily rehearsal.

Learn in slow first. Speed it up to faster than you will play it, then slow it down.
Learn it with the bow first, even if it's a pizz part
Learn it with an alternate fingering.
Learn to make both fingerings sound the same
Learn it an octave higher / lower
Learn it backwards (read the score from end to beginning)

Then you know it backwards and forwards.

Play with other musicians as often as possible.

Slowly but surely, I'm getting better.
Great advice, but I'm too lazy to learn some things up & down octaves and with alt. fingerings. I know you're right though! Well, I do tend to do this with some of my jazz heads.

[Richard Prowse]

First day off school. Put my 78 Jazz into standard tuning, to please Stan who never seems to talk to me these days.

[stan haskins]

Nothing personal, Richard. Just had a very busy holiday week. The family has been keeping me way too busy. I've barely had a chance to practice at all, and got ill to boot . . . I still check in to read the Down Under thread, and still think you ought to do some writing that's not for an internet bass forum, but, whatever.

So, how do you get better at your P-Bass? I've got a hybrid ('66 Jazz neck on a mid-70's precision body) which has basically become a decoration. I seriously haven't even touched it in more than 2 years . . . Someday I'll be able to get to all of the things I've been wanting to do, and that bass may get plugged in.

[Richard Prowse]

Nothing personal, Richard. Just had a very busy holiday week. The family has been keeping me way too busy. I've barely had a chance to practice at all, and got ill to boot . . . I still check in to read the Down Under thread, and still think you ought to do some writing that's not for an internet bass forum, but, whatever.

So, how do you get better at your P-Bass? I've got a hybrid ('66 Jazz neck on a mid-70's precision body) which has basically become a decoration. I seriously haven't even touched it in more than 2 years . . . Someday I'll be able to get to all of the things I've been wanting to do, and that bass may get plugged in.
Hey, Stan, so good to hear your writing again! (this is actually correct grammar)
When I put my Jazz into tenor tuning, I relearnt all the notes for the new tuning... that was quite a few years ago... so now all the triads, chords, etc. that I worked on have two names. I need to do lots of practice now to get out of thinging of those tenor strings. I've put together a 12 tune solo repertoire that I'll work up... it won't take too long, as I've worked on the tunes before, but they now sit in different places on the neck.
I have GHS strings on, which I've always liked, but the E string has a bit of a funny sound... it should sound more 'full' but sounds a bit hollow with a slight echo. If you want to get that P-Bass going, I suggest that you start playing your major scales and triads around the cycle of 4ths.
Don't neglect that big violin though!
I hope your illness has cleared up and that all your family are well. I'm going to see my daughter (Stephanie) today, which should be nice. She lives about 40 minutes away in a place called Newtown. My wife (Shelley) has some Easter eggs for her, which I don't feel good about because of how Easter discriminates against certain days (see the Down Here (NZ) thread for the full story).
Hope to hear from you on the Down Here (NZ) thread soon.
Your pal Richard

[Richard Prowse]

I'm only practising double bass now. Total focus.

[stan haskins]

I'm only practising double bass now. Total focus.

:mad: Yes. Discipline, man. :mad:

[Richard Prowse]

:mad: Yes. Discipline, man. :mad:
Stan, Sie sind auf es!

[Dennis Michaels]

You guys absolutely kill me. I had a problem student a few years ago who never practiced or applied himself in any way while still having his sites set high. After 2 years I lost it and told him this." If you won't practice and work on this thing, you have no choice but to lower you expectations so you are happy playing bass as badly as you said you want to". Goal achived:D

[Richard Prowse]

I had a great double bass teacher many years ago. One time I asked him,
"What should I do when I don't feel like practising?"
He replied,
"Watch TV."

[Richard Prowse]

I had a great double bass teacher many years ago. One time I asked him,
"What should I do when I don't feel like practising?"
He replied,
"Watch TV."
Before you berate him, think!
There was a lot of truth in what he said.
I believe he was a very wise man.

[Robert Prowse]

Was that Harry? ;)

[Richard Prowse]

Got it in one.


Wow! That reply sounded very yankee!