Carbon Fiber Bows

[Jeff Tranauskas]

I have seen several manufactures offer carbon fiber bows.
Has anyone had any experience with these types of bows?
If so please comment.:)

[Anselm Hauke]

i like my arcus bow
http://www.arcus-bow.de/english/63e_bass_prof.htm

[stan haskins]

My teacher uses a carbow as his main bow - I've tried it and liked it, a bit on the bright side for my liking, but I would definitely consider a CF bow as a usable option.

[Jeff Tranauskas]

I currently own a Carbow "Gary Karr" model German bow and I am extremely pleased with it! I recently had a pernambucco bow break in shipping so I called up Robertson and had them send me several bows in the 700-1200 dollar range. I honestly can't remember what the other ones were, but I did not expect the carbon fiber bow to beat out similarly priced pernambucco bows. I was blown away. The bow balances extremely well and is heavy enough to use the weight of the bow, but not so heavy as to hinder my playing.
Basically, try out lots of bows, compare various models of carbon fiber to higher end pernambucco bows. I have had no experience with low end carbon fiber bows, I have heard varied reviews on different makes.
I know that CF is not the bow material of choice for everybody, but if ya haven't tried it then you'll never know!

Ryan,
Thank you for the input! And thank you to all others who responded to my question.
Is your Gary Karr model the one with the snakewood frog?
How much was it? Just round numbers I don't need the exact amount.

[Ken Smith]

Once while at a dress rehearsal I switched Bows with a sub in the orchestra so he could try out out as I was selling it. He had a CF Bow and I had one of my Eibert Bows. I played about 5 minutes on his Bow and gave it back to him and asked him how he could play on that. He replied that is was much better than what he had before.

At a Violin I tried two other CF Bows by known companies and to me, they were not as good as a medium Grade wood Bow by any stretch.

This has been my personal experience so far with CF Bows. Not for me and from what I have seen, leave the CF in the golf Clubs and Fishing rods. The Bow needs some wood to match with the tone of the Bass and the Music.

[Flint Buchanan]

I'm currently using the Glasser carbon fibre bow, and while it was an improvement over the cheap brazilwood bow that came with my bass, I can't say that I'm totally happy with it.

The only real comparisons I can make are to my teachers 3k pernambuco bow-which I can say practically plays itself. I don't know the maker, other than it's Italian and she picked it up while travelilng in Italy. The other comparison I can make is to the URB bob bow that my section mate plays as a back-up. The Glasser is better balanced than the URB bow, and is longer as well.

That being said, I am looking for a replacement bow. If I can afford it, I am going to go for a natural bow this time.

[JoeyNaeger]

Not all carbon fiber bows are made equally. I've played on some that were less than spectacular, but they were also priced accordingly. I have a french carbow as my main bow now and it has done everything I needed it to. Of course, I'd love to upgrade at some point, but I think it is an excellent value bow for those looking for something inbetween a high end pernambuco bow and some cheaper student bows.

[stan haskins]

I've got a Gage Metropolitan German bow at home on trial right now. I love how this bow feels and responds - it's well-balanced and easy to control. The tone is very even, too - but it seems to be lacking something in terms of volume and punch. Overall, it would be a big upgrade from the cheap brazilwood I've been playing for the last couple of years. I don't know how it competes with other wood bows in its own price range, though . . .

[Ken Smith]

I've got a Gage Metropolitan German bow at home on trial right now. I love how this bow feels and responds - it's well-balanced and easy to control. The tone is very even, too - but it seems to be lacking something in terms of volume and punch. Overall, it would be a big upgrade from the cheap brazilwood I've been playing for the last couple of years. I don't know how it competes with other wood bows in its own price range, though . . .

You are in NY so you could easily go see Arnold and Jeff and try some of my KSB Bows. If they weren't good, they wouldn't bother selling them. They have been compared at times with other Bows up to 10x their price. I would much rather feel warm wood than cold plastic in my hands.

If I couldn't do it better, I wouldn't bother. I have enough to do as it is so if I take something else on, there is usually a good reason for it.

[Benjamin Bates]

My teacher uses a carbow as his main bow - I've tried it and liked it, a bit on the bright side for my liking, but I would definitely consider a CF bow as a usable option.

I agree the bow is bright. However, coupled with BelCantos my bass sings in a very rich and sweet way.
I like my carbow a lot!

I own a Carbow, but am unsure what you mean by "bright". What do you mean? Wouldn't that be the quality of the hair that gave it "brightness"?

[Jeff Tranauskas]

Does anyone know where the Gage carbon fiber bows are made?

[Ken Smith]

I own a Carbow, but am unsure what you mean by "bright". What do you mean? Wouldn't that be the quality of the hair that gave it "brightness"?

I think that means too much treble in the tone! It just doesn't have the warmth of a good wooded Bow.

[Ken Smith]

Does anyone know where the Gage carbon fiber bows are made?

I think Gage would be the best to answer then. Probably in Carbonia, Fiberlandia. far far away... or, maybe in China.

I was at Lowes Home Center last week and I looked at a box of something like a Fan. It said 'made in China'. Everything I looked at said 'China' on the Box. I thought for a minute I was in Walmart.

On the Bow thing, I just picked up another Lipkins Bow (my fourth, but have sold two of them). I have a Custom one on the way soon. This will be Sue's 'ONLY' full Sartory model with a Parisian Eye in the Frog. She has made some Sartory models years back but with her regular Pearl Eye. Awhile back, she had to make a new Frog to replace a broken one on an old Sartory. She had to make the tooling Jigs for the special 'Eye' that Sartory used so she will use that to make a one-of-a-kind Lipkins-Sartory. She also mentioned two other things. One, it will be a one-time deal and she will never make another one like it and two, she will take pics throughout the making for my records/website recording all the steps involved in making this special Bow.

I don't think you can get that with a CF Bow, can you? The few I have played which ranged in quality still felt like cold plastic in my hands. A quality wood Bow warms up as you play it. I like the natural type feel of a good wood Bow. That's just my personal feelings about it.

[Benjamin Bates]

Thanks for your reply, Ken.

I feel I'm still a bit new to bows, even though I've been playing with one since 1992. I borrowed a bass and a wooden French bow in my time with the Darwin Symphony Orchestra ('92-'96), I bought my own bass which came with a cheap wooden French bow in Melbourne ('97-'04), then I left my bow on the dashboard of my car and it flew out the window in 2004, so I borrowed wooden French bows from the Darwin Symphony Orchestra which I used up until the beginning of 2006. I then took a lesson from a German bassist in Adelaide who converted me to German bow, and when I returned to Darwin my bass (wait for it........) fell down the stairs when my girlfriend was trying to move it out of the way, so I bought a new bass under the insurance as well as a new German CF bow (Carbow) that cost me AU$1500.

The Carbow now felt amazing to play with, I was very pleased with it. In Darwin we have extreme weather conditions and only two seasons - Wet and Dry. In the Dry I get a really warm sound out of my bow; in the Wet the sound quality is harsh and buzzy. At first I thought it was my technique problems. Early this year I moved down to Tasmania to study with the Principal bassist of the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra who is a French bow player. He's okay with me staying with the German bow hold, but whenever I have a lesson with him I get a warm sound with the bow because I'll be in a room with minimal humidity; but just recently it has been raining in Hobart so the humidity has started to rise. Thinking that the buzzing came back was due to my technique problems I talked to my teacher, who seemed not to notice any difference because we were having a lesson in a dry room.

But now after reading this forum I'm thinking it may be a mixture of humid weather and the fact that I have a carbon fibre bow. So that's why I asked are you sure it's not the hair quality on the bow? Does the quality of a bow really make a "brighter" sound?

I read these forums with arguments for and against synthetic bows and they all make sense, but what really is the science behind a wooden bow sounding and feeling "warmer" than a synthetic bow?

Please excuse the ramble, but I have been intrigued for a few years now and have never received a straight answer from anyone, violinists, cellists or bassists (I didn't ask any Violists).

[Ken Smith]

First off, you lost one out of a car window and falling down the stairs with another? Gee, I think you might be hazardous to hang out with..lol

I recently owned to great master grade English Bows by Arthur Bultitude both made within two years of each other. I am picking this and another maker to better compare similar bows rather than different ones (apples to apples kinda). The first Bultitude had old black hair and sounded a little bright. After I played it for awhile, it warmed up quite a bit. The Bow had not been used for several years and I was the first owner in USA as well. Truly one of the best Bows I have seen in my life. The second Bultitude came soon after and had year old off-white hair, well rosined and played everyday for a year before I got it. This Bow was smoother and a tad more responsive than the other one. It also had more side camber. Two Bows of similar wood by the same maker made in the same period and each sounded and felt slightly different. Both great though.

The other two to compare are Bows made by Sue Lipkins made within about a year of each other. The one I've been playing for awhile I received just after the 2006 VSA Competition/Convention. This Bow was smooth at first without much bite. After a year of occasional playing (using several bows for various Basses and concerts) it has lost a few hairs, is well rosined and had gained a bit of bite. The second one I just got and sent it up to Sue for a Re-hair as it was also well played for over a year and needed a clean-up. After getting that one back and comparing it, the tone of the stick is about the same as it was with the old hair (from Lipkins as well) but with a new re-hair and more hair than the other Bow, I feel it is not as smooth as it was 2 weeks ago. This one is slightly darker sounding or rather smoother sounding than the other Bow. Both look fairly identical but the feel is slightly different. Both have the exact same white hair of the highest grade available.

Conclusion? Coarser hair sounds brighter or rather more edgy. White or smoother hair in comparison sounds smoother. Cheaper grades of hair regardless of color break faster and give less sound and might sound thinner as well. What the player hears on the Bass is not exactly the same as a listener 10 or 20 feet away. Sometimes a quieter Bow sounds louder and fuller when standing and listening to it being played some distance away from the Bass.

Bows vary in tone as much as Basses do. This is due to the wood and the making combined. CF bows are usually very consistent in materials (within brands and models) and less life-like in the variances. There are all grades of CF and wood bows on the market. Perhaps it's economics paying only about 1/10th the price for a workable CF Bow while the wood Bows I play start at 3k and run up to and over 10k. My old Sartory would fetch 12-15k today and the Frog was believed to be a replacement. THAT was the best Bow I have ever held in my life, hands down!

[Benjamin Bates]

Okay that makes sense. I understand I have cheap black hair on my bow and it sounds scratchy, and it does lose a lot of hair. Maybe I'll go with better quality white hair next time. Though I have had good tones from my bow recently. Would humidity really affect the tone as drastically as it does with my bow? Or maybe...I'm guessing, if I had good quality hair on my bow I wouldn't have tonal differences with humidity changes. It's the only conclusion I can come up with, I've tried different resins, I've tried cleaning the bow and reapplying fresh resin, yet still somedays I'll have a gorgeous tone and others a real buzzy sound. I just don't get it.

[JoeyNaeger]

I think the one variable you're leaving out is the bass. It could be that your bass dislikes the change in humidity. Some people recommend a summer and winter soundpost. Your bow probably isn't going to be affected by the humidity changes much. It's carbon fiber, so it's not like it's absorbing moisture or anything like that.

[Charles Federle]

High humidity can have nasty effects on a bow's hair. This summer I was playing a series of summer outdoor concerts. This summer it rain almost every day for a few weeks straight, oddly enough except for our concerts. I felt like I was living back in the swamps. No matter what I did with my bow out there it would not work. Always felt like there was no rosin on whenever I would come back indoors was just gummed up. Hair can make or break even the best of bows.

Now as far as carbon fiber bows are concerned I have been very pleased with almost all of the ones that I have played. They may not all play quite as well as my stick, but compared to wood bows of the same price I find carbon fiber bows play much better. The sound is not the same, but they are still good sticks. In fact I wish I had one for those outdoor gigs.

[Benjamin Bates]

I think the one variable you're leaving out is the bass. It could be that your bass dislikes the change in humidity. Some people recommend a summer and winter soundpost. Your bow probably isn't going to be affected by the humidity changes much. It's carbon fiber, so it's not like it's absorbing moisture or anything like that.

High humidity can have nasty effects on a bow's hair. This summer I was playing a series of summer outdoor concerts. This summer it rain almost every day for a few weeks straight, oddly enough except for our concerts. I felt like I was living back in the swamps. No matter what I did with my bow out there it would not work. Always felt like there was no rosin on whenever I would come back indoors was just gummed up. Hair can make or break even the best of bows.

Now as far as carbon fiber bows are concerned I have been very pleased with almost all of the ones that I have played. They may not all play quite as well as my stick, but compared to wood bows of the same price I find carbon fiber bows play much better. The sound is not the same, but they are still good sticks. In fact I wish I had one for those outdoor gigs.

Thanks for your replies; I was wondering if my posts were being ignored...

Interesting...the idea on seasonal soundposts, I might have to read up on some threads.

and it's interesting to see someone else gets the same "gummed up" effect on their bow. Thanks guys :o