How tight is your bow?

[Richard Prowse]

I was practising the other day and working on tone. I suddenly got back into investigating something I had overlooked for quite a while - how tight my bow hair was. Now, I'm no scientist but, it makes sense that hair on a looser bow will make contact with more of the surface area of the string. I loosened my bow until I could easily push it onto the string and make the middle of the stick touch the hair - probably not a good test for German bows, but mine is an ex-French bow and the luthier designed the frog a little differently to keep the balance of the bow pretty much the same as it was as a French bow.
I was just wondering if anyone out there had thoughts on bow tightness, or had a system (eg. 3 complete winds) to keep the tightness of their bow regular.

[Ken Smith]

Depends on how you play. You don't want the hair dragging on the stick. That will break hairs. Play your hardest ffff with the bow and tighten it until your hairs do not hit the string. This can be altered depending on what you are actually playing. Stronger/harder players tighten the bow more on average than lighter players. On average is the key as players do what they like or feel they need. You can do the same. Do what works best for you. No rules here per say.

[Richard Prowse]

Come on Ken, we humans make up rules for everything. Maybe we need to formulate bow tightening rules?
Well, as a guide.

[Terry McDougal]

Somewhere in the middle? You don't want a tight kilt, nor a loose one, for obvious reasons.

[Bin Hire]

Well put Terry!

[Thomas Erickson]

I really don't mean to sound like a jerk, but tightening your bow is something that is so simple it really can't be explained. I mean, if it "bottoms out" it's too loose, and if it's too tight, well, it's too tight. If your bow doesn't seem to be working, you're probably a lot better off looking at your technique or maybe your bow just sucks. ;)

[Ken Smith]

I really don't mean to sound like a jerk, but tightening your bow is something that is so simple it really can't be explained. I mean, if it "bottoms out" it's too loose, and if it's too tight, well, it's too tight. If your bow doesn't seem to be working, you're probably a lot better off looking at your technique or maybe your bow just sucks. ;)

I think there is a bit more to it than that. After some time, the hair will stretch from the frog little by little. Tightening the stick is harder when you have less room to tighten it from the hair being stretched.Also, the balance of the bow (in playing it) changes as the frog moved further towards the screw and away from the grip. I have one bow that has a very stiff stick and a fairly big camber. Tightening that bow is not so easy because the hair has been in there a long time (what hair is left), and I can barely get the hair off the stick when tightening it.

I know bows and know them well. Some just need some TLC so they work better. Also as you say, there are some not-so-great bows out there in use as well. That can make things difficult regardless of the hair condition.

[Thomas Erickson]

Fair enough. All the more reason to get regular rehairs. Assuming you have a luthier who does a good, consistent job anyway.

[Ken Smith]

Fair enough. All the more reason to get regular rehairs. Assuming you have a luthier who does a good, consistent job anyway.

I have to confess that I don't get my Bows re-haired as often as I should and never have. I have gone years on my main bows now and back in my earlier days as well. I just seem to get used to the Bow and wait till the last minute. I had a re-hair recently on my Eibert Sartory model. The hair on there was about 7 years old or more. My Lipkins Sartory needs a re-hair as well but just can't seem to let it out of my hands to get it done. The Lipkins hair is 4 years old. My old Sartory may have had 1 or 2 re-hairs in 15 years that I can recall back in my early days.

Like the saying goes, 'do as I say, not as I do'. Get re-hairs as needed even if you have to ship the bow out to do so.

[Thomas Erickson]

I think rehairing technique and hair quality/variety are something (well, among many things) that are really lacking or absent, at least in the US. It may seem like a minor thing, but bow hair, at least to the orchestra player, is a pretty big deal!

[Bin Hire]

Interesting. It's probably closer to seven years since I had my bow rehaired. It still seems to play fine and there is plenty of hair. Are you saying that the hair 'wears out'?

[Thomas Erickson]

For sure. Not only does it stretch, like Ken says, but rosin builds up and it just plain gets dirty and worn out.

I say that if you play with the same bow every day, it should be rehaired once a year. Naturally I don't follow my own advice, but every time I get a rehair I wish I'd done it sooner!

[Joshua phelps]

I have a great nurnberger its one made by his son but still my prized possesion since im poor :) the bow needs a rehair badly I think the hair has been on for about ten years & rather than breaking lots of hairs it's just so smooth it won't grab no matter how much rosin you put on (I'm sure pops would work). Where do you guys get your bows rehaired? Also Ken what style bow do you use?

[Thomas Erickson]

Unless you live in a major urban center and know who to go to, I'd say just send your bow to one of the well know shops and have it done. If you call, they'll send you a tube to ship it in.

And for the record, Pops rosin is a sticky disaster, at least in my opinion and that of many others. I've found that it makes a mess of bow hair, the top of your bass, the inside of your bass bag/bow case, carpet, and anything else it comes near.

[Ken Smith]

I have a great nurnberger its one made by his son but still my prized possesion since im poor :) the bow needs a rehair badly I think the hair has been on for about ten years & rather than breaking lots of hairs it's just so smooth it won't grab no matter how much rosin you put on (I'm sure pops would work). Where do you guys get your bows rehaired? Also Ken what style bow do you use?

Many of the Bows here I have used personally; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/bows/

[Joshua phelps]

Thomas - I agree on pops. I tried a cake pops & it melted in my studio in the dead of winter. It is a huge mess & especially for the top. I love oak rosin all around plus the added benefit of just taking a soft cloth to go over the top after practice & the very occasional polish to clean my bass & not having to use something way more harse like kolsteins to get huge clumps of rosin off. Ken - you play french & German bows? Which do you prefer?

[Joshua phelps]

Ken - I just realized that there were like 20 French & only 1 german & those were ksb bows. Guess I have my answer :)

[Ken Smith]

ONLY French, and good ones. My old Bow was a Sartory. It doesn't get better than that at any price.

[Richard Prowse]

For sure. Not only does it stretch, like Ken says, but rosin builds up and it just plain gets dirty and worn out.

I say that if you play with the same bow every day, it should be rehaired once a year. Naturally I don't follow my own advice, but every time I get a rehair I wish I'd done it sooner!
Oops, I need a rehair!
My hair has been on far too long; though it still sounds good.

[Ken Smith]

Oops, I need a rehair!
My hair has been on far too long; though it still sounds good.

My hair in some spots is long gone and I still need a hair cut besides. :(

Still, I don't think it's long enough for a German bow.. :rolleyes:

[Joshua phelps]

I wish I could try playing several nice bows but ive never had the opportunity other than my nurnberger & some of my teachers bows. I've tried French & wanted to be a French player but I could never develop my grip without having serious pain after only an hour or so of playing. I have really big hands so I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I like the attack you get from French bow but my German grip is coming along ok too.

[Richard Prowse]

I wish I could try playing several nice bows but ive never had the opportunity other than my nurnberger & some of my teachers bows. I've tried French & wanted to be a French player but I could never develop my grip without having serious pain after only an hour or so of playing. I have really big hands so I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I like the attack you get from French bow but my German grip is coming along ok too.
I played French for years and changed to German because of an injury - my brother had taken some German bow lessons with a guy in the NZSO and guided me. Now and again I try French just for fun, but I'd never go back.

"My hair in some spots is long gone and I still need a hair cut besides. :(
Still, I don't think it's long enough for a German bow.. :rolleyes:"
I get it Ken, very good switch of hair type.