Another old bass ID...

[Carl Egbert]

http://imgur.com/a/Lbo0b (http://imgur.com/a/Lbo0b)


Any thoughts on what this bass might be? It has no label and no papers. It's being sold as a specific time period and a specific nationality, but I'll leave out what those are for now so as not to muddy the waters. Apologies for the poor photography, I have no idea what I'm doing as far as that's concerned. I can try to take some better ones, or photos of different parts of the bass, if that would help.

[Ken Smith]

It would be nice if you said what it is they are selling it as instead of keeping secrets.

This is the 3rd bass like this with that same carving in the back button which is distinctive. I think the other 2 were called French basses, maybe one was named and were dated to the 19th century, mid and latter part each.

What it actually is I don't know. They gears are not typical French but French-like, more so than German. And yes, the pics are not great but there is a possibility that this is German, but one of the nicer ones made to look French.

Only one of them did I see in person and I am no closer now to naming it as I was then.

So, what is it selling as? Measurements might be helpful as well, in inches.

[Carl Egbert]

It's a very small bass; upper bouts are 19.5", lower are 26", body length is 42", Ribs are 8" at their deepest. It's selling as early 19th century French. The only bass from this time period I've ever really heard of is the Karr-Koussevitzky bass, which is actually fairly similar in pattern and size to this instrument. For reference: http://www.anderson-group.com/isb/images/karr-koussevitzky-bass.jpg

[Ken Smith]

It's a very small bass; upper bouts are 19.5", lower are 26", body length is 42", Ribs are 8" at their deepest. It's selling as early 19th century French. The only bass from this time period I've ever really heard of is the Karr-Koussevitzky bass, which is actually fairly similar in pattern and size to this instrument. For reference: http://www.anderson-group.com/isb/images/karr-koussevitzky-bass.jpg

Those two bass have nothing to do with each other in any way. The Karr/Kous. bass is cut down and possibly a composite. Some believe it is German. I have played it for a few minutes only. No one really knows what it is.

On the bass you listed, it is complete and un-altered, in a cello model shape with roundback. Once you have seen 100 or more old basses, your eyes will auto-re-adjust.

They might be correct on the origin or they could be wrong. Arnold Schnitzer had one in the shop not long ago, the exact same maker/model. Ask him, I would!

[Carl Egbert]

Interesting, I didn't know that the Karr-Koussevitzky bass was cut down.

I will send an email to Arnold. Thanks for your help!

[Eric Hochberg]

Is that this bass? www.allthingsbass.com

Go to carved basses, 19th C. Purported Mirecourt.

[Ken Smith]

Is that this bass? www.allthingsbass.com (http://www.allthingsbass.com)

Go to carved basses, 19th C. Purported Mirecourt.

No, not the exact bass but one like it. That is one of the three I have seen. One was in person, no pics but I remembered seeing that one at first.

[Carl Egbert]

Correct, that's a different instrument. It does look almost identical, though; same shape and size, same weird button, same or very similar tuners, even the flaming of the wood on the back is really similar. The one I'm trying out now is in worse shape overall, although everything has been repaired pretty well including an excellent scroll graft and setup. Have you played that bass, Eric? How does it sound/play?

[Eric Hochberg]

Haven't seen or played the bass, Carl. Maybe I'll get by there at some point.

[Michael Cahill]

It visited Arnold in 2010 so it may be the one you saw there, Ken. When I picked up my bass, Arnold showed me the bass he had built for you.

Because he had not seen that carving before, Arnold thought it might have been added by a creative luthier at some point. I guess it should also match the back of the scroll in some way if it were original.

"I still think the button carving was done after the bass was built. My only reason ,though, is that I've never seen it before. The bass is German, likely late 19th century, in my opinion." Arnold

Anyway, this may or not be someone's signature but I enjoy my bass.

[Ken Smith]

So, after viewing all 3 basses in the same period of time I conclude that this is a specific maker or model. Made where? Germany, France, Belgium of maybe even the Netherlands. Somewhere in that region.

[Michael Cahill]

Markneukirchen to Arnold

[Ken Smith]

Markneukirchen to Arnold

Seeing pictures of your bass now, the one Arnold had awhile back, I notice it has outer linings. The other two basses do not have those linings but everything else matches up. Assuming those outer linings are original and I don't see and indication to the contrary, you can rule out the French origin.

I have never seen a single confirmed French bass with outer linings. Those linings are the most common features that disprove French origin attributes. The most common basses with outer linings are German. A few basses from England and even more rare from Italy have popped up with outer linings. Sometimes, added during a restoration. But, this bass has nothing to do with English or Italian work.

Arnold has seen the bass and I would think he looked inside as well. Markneukirchen is in Saxony, a region on the Czech/Bohemian border. Several other towns in Saxony are also famed for violin making. When I included Germany as a possible origin, Saxony was in my thoughts but not exclusively. Mainly because this bass looks too original in design to be associated with the trade instruments made in that area but seeing those linings now on this particular bass above, I will say that Germany is most likely where it was made.

Sometimes you see a single feature and then, the fog clears up and you can see clearly.

[Michael Cahill]

have been repaired by the button carving luthier!

[Ken Smith]

have been repaired by the button carving luthier!

I highly doubt that but I see the humor in your suggestion. lol