Beethovans 3rd and 9th...

[Ken Smith]

I play the 3rd next week and I play the 9th on May 5th. Do I put the 9th away and concentrate ONLY on the 3rd and then shed the 9th or work on the 9th as well over the next week?

I played the 9th about 35 years ago and don't remember a thing. The 3rd is no piece of cake but the 9th looks like a nightmare! I must do a good job next week as well so I was just wondering if anyone out there has been in my shoes before and might have some advice.

Don't take too long as I rehearse tonight and next Tuesday and play the 3rd on Wednesday. To make things worse, we are also playing the Russlan & Ludmilla Overture at about 600 mph as well as the Sibelius Violin Concerto with a guest Violinist from the Philly Orch (Paul Roby). That is the easiest of the three but not easy by any measure so I have my work cut out.

My main dilemma is the 9th and very little time to work on it. I was busy with the Mahler that I just did Saturday and the Conductor told me in the parking lot afterwards "way beyond my expectations" (as far as my little Solo went). He emailed me today and said "Your solo exceeded all expectations Friday night and was well above anything you did in rehearsals. Bravo! It was my personal highlight of the evening!". Actually it was 'fair' in my mind. I played it perfectly in every rehearsal except one which he happened to remember so anything was an improvement..lol

So as you can see, I am expected to pull it off as if I have nothing else to do in my life..lol

[Nick Hart]

I'd say hike up the practice time and woodshed them both. The last movement of Beethoven 9 is enough to make even the best bass players sweat and certainly can not be learned well enough in that time frame. Beethoven 3 doesn't nearly as many complicated licks as 9 and will take a fraction of the time it will take to learn Beethoven 9. For the Sibelius, if you can do ricochet you'll do fine and its just a lot of counting, and the Glinka isn't terribly hard, just practice a lot of scales and that will go over well.

[Brian Gencarelli]

Ken, If you have until May 5th for B#9, put it away until after B#3. You can practice both, but I would study the 9th without the bass this week. Find all your trouble spots, listen to the symphony and watch your part go by. Put in bowings, fingerings, etc...

Nick is right, the 4th movement is a bear, but so awesome. The recit is actually the easy part of that movement. Just start playing the fugue in slow motion. Choreograph the fingers.

Listening and knowing the score as well as the conductor is my goal for all these masterworks. I feel it is important to know the music backwards and forwards... it helps to learn it under the fingers if you know "where it is going".

May the force be with you.
Brian

[stan haskins]

Nick is right, the 4th movement is a bear, but so awesome. agreed.
The recit is actually the easy part of that movement. DO you really think so? I find it very difficult to time after the first phrase ("oh Freunde, nicht diese Toene"). The notes aren't hard, but the phrasing . . . well, I 'm still working on it. YOu're talking about the low string recit, right? The one that bass singer repeats before the Marciale later?

May the force be with you.
Brian

And also with you.

[Ken Smith]

Did the 3rd and it went well.:) Did the first run-thru rehearsal last light on the 9th. Skeleton crew only. I asked my old NY Phil teacher about it and said if you get picky with the f, ff and fffs dynamics, you wont hit all those fast notes/jumps but if you play easy you will have more time for the shifts. Even the Basses in the NY Phil miss a few notes at light speed playing the Cello part and an instrument 2x the size the Cellos are playing.:(

Now that I have a clue what's going on around me and the tempos, I need the 'force' and then some to pull it off 80% or better being the picky guy I am about playing.:(

[Brian Gencarelli]

Ken,

When the adrenaline kicks in you will be able to move those fingers fast enough.... ;) fight or flight!

Stan, I understand the timing issue... I just try to play what is on the page when I am practicing it. (like for an audition.) I try not to put too much interpretation of my own into it, and save that for the conductor.

The first time I performed Beethoven #9, I was about 22 playing in the Augusta Symphony (GA) and got put Assistant with my college professor. Talk about pressure... (insert sweating bullets icon here...) Just to make things interesting, we did Beethoven #1 on the first half of the concert.:eek:

I have done it several times since then. It gets better every time. As of now I have performed all the symphonies except #4. Don't know why... just doesn't get programmed much. I want to do it to complete the cycle.

Anyway, have fun with that Ken! It is your Destiny!

Brian

[Ken Smith]

Ok, panic is past me now. Did it last night and I'm still alive..lol

A few spots in the 4th movement like the dbl sextuplet eight notes in Two no doubt which fly by like 64ths. Then the ending.. geeze...talk about speeding.. My Bass was even yelling for help it was so dizzy from my Bow flying across the strings and my left hand jumping two octaves faster then the speed of sound..

I was looking for spots during the piece to shake out my right hand from cramping up. I just bought this beautiful Bow made by Geza Balint (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Bows/Balint/Balint.htm) and it has a bit of weight to it. I had been using my lighter Bazin (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Bows/Bazin/Bazin.htm) most recently after selling yet my second Bultitude (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Bows/Bultitude/Bultitude2.htm) which I regret but someone else was in need more then I and Arnold convinced me it was the right thing to do for a great player.

I had just gotten the Balint Bow this past Wednesday afternoon and went straight to a rehearsal with it in a different orchestra. Then used it Thursday evening and Saturday morning for the 9th rehearsals. I brought the Bazin as well just in case but the sound the Balint pulls is superior to the Bazin which up until now was about my smoothest darkest sounding bow with only the Bultitude winning out for its playability and normal length over the shorter Theater style Bazin Bow.

I played the Balint about 3 years ago and didn't like the overly smooth sound. My Eibert Pecatte (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Bows/Eibert/EibertPeccatte.htm) model Bow seemed to have more bite to the sound so I stuck with that and walked away from the Balint. After selling my 2nd Bultitude and 3rd Lipkins as well, I was without a regular length high-end Bow. Both my Eibert and 2nd Lipkins are out on trial so I thought checking out the Balint again might be good since I now prefer the smoother darker Bow sound that three years ago I rejected.

By the way, Sue will be making me a Bow soon for the first time. It will be a Sartory model with a Parisian Eye in the Frog. The only other time she made a Frog like that was to replace one on a real Sartory. The other 3 Lipkins Bows were great as well but were not made for me. I bought two from other players and one was her VSA competition Bow. All were beautiful and great, just not my personal order. Even if the one she makes is similar in playability and sound to the other three it will be my keeper as all were great. I just didn't have any personal attachment to them as they were not made personally for me.

On the first few Rehearsals I used my slightly lighter weight Bisiach Bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Bisiach/Bisiach.htm) to avoid carrying the heavier or rather regular weighted Gilkes (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/GilkesBass/GilkesBass.htm) as I am just recovering from some lower back/pinched nerve problems. At home for practice on the 9th I used my Bollbach Lion head Pallotta (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Bollbach/Bollbach.htm). The Gilkes is going back to Arnolds for some customers to look at. The Bisiach is going to Jeff B. for an extension and FB job and a few little touch-up things. I will then be able now to use the lighter weight Bisiach for all my Rehearsals and some concerts while leaving home my prized Hart/Maggini Bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Hart/Hart.htm) which its massive restoration is soon to be completed. I will use the Hart for only the last few rehearsals and Concerts where warranted.

For instance, I have a outdoor concert in June in a Park and another one outdoors in June as well at some Lodge. This might be a job for my 7/8th Shen (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/ShenBass/SHENBass.htm) as I don't feel good about bringing any valuable type Bass to an outdoor venue.

In the mean time, all I will have (other than the Shen) for May or maybe June (until Jeff finishes the Bisiach) will be the 1978 Pollmann (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Pollmann/Pollmann.htm) I just bought from Arnold which I will get next week.

So... the 9th is behind me and my fingers are recovering with the proof being how well I typed this post! :D

[Brian Gencarelli]

Congrats Ken! It is always nice to get the "biggies" under the belt and behind you. I don't know how you keep up with all those basses and bows, but I would love to try!!! :D

Brian

[Ken Smith]

Congrats Ken! It is always nice to get the "biggies" under the belt and behind you. I don't know how you keep up with all those basses and bows, but I would love to try!!! :D

Brian

My head is actually spinning a bit with Basses on my mind. Just today the Gilkes went back up for sale at Arnolds. Jeff took my Bisiach for an Ext. job. A Bass player friend in Philly who drives with me to Arnolds borrowed my Bollbach Lion for a possible sale/trade with his old Viennese model German Bass that needs some restoration work. I picked up my Lipkins expo Bow that was out on trial with the Bultitude which was sold. I looked at two other Bows today as well and countless Basses, three of which I have some personal interest in. My Friend brought back another Bass for one of his students at UArts to try out and I just brought home my newly scored 1978 Pollmann and did some personal adjustments. All this including traveling from 9am to 9pm with Lunch included with my Philly friend (a fine Bassist) Arnold, Jeff (who drove up as well for the meet) and Jed, Arnolds asst.

Keep up with my Basses? I don't even wear a watch anymore because it might mess up my pace!:eek:

PS: To pour salt on any musical wounds I may have, my friend Kevin who drove and also played the 9th with me in the orchestra had the nerve to play a CD from the NY Phil. c1967 with the 4th movement blaring as we drove back to see how we sounded in comparison..lol

Tomorrow is a DB day off. I have to ship out some Smith Basses and get some real work done!:cool: