Are Ken Smith Basses heavy or is it just me?

[Kraig Gregory]

Ken,

I have wondered for years why Ken Smith Basses (that I have played) are heavier than other basses with the same amount of strings. When you look at the body and the body shape, usually the Ken Smith is thinner and the shape is similar if not smaller to other high quality basses. I understand that Cocobolo and Ebony are heavier than ash and alder, but a 5 or 6 string smiths is usually 10-12 lbs, while a MTD, Fodera, or Pre-Gibson Tobias will weigh between 8.5-10 lbs. Is it all wood species, or is there a belief that heavier woods of the same species, make better tone woods?

To me an 10 lbs bass is comfortable, while an 11+ lb bass needs to be used in a rotation when performing longer sets.

Is there quality in weight quantity?

Kraig

[Ken Smith]

We don't build them to make any specific weight. They are what the are.

No one is complaining and we are still back ordered after 28 years.

[Bob Faulkner]

While my Smith is not my lightest bass, it's not what I would call uncomfortable. It helps that Ken supplies a nice, thick, sheep skin lined strap with his basses. I've played with mine on for up to 7 hours straight with no comfort problems.

[Tim Bishop]

Ken,

I have wondered for years why Ken Smith Basses (that I have played) are heavier than other basses with the same amount of strings. When you look at the body and the body shape, usually the Ken Smith is thinner and the shape is similar if not smaller to other high quality basses. I understand that Cocobolo and Ebony are heavier than ash and alder, but a 5 or 6 string smiths is usually 10-12 lbs, while a MTD, Fodera, or Pre-Gibson Tobias will weigh between 8.5-10 lbs. Is it all wood species, or is there a belief that heavier woods of the same species, make better tone woods?

To me an 10 lbs bass is comfortable, while an 11+ lb bass needs to be used in a rotation when performing longer sets.

Is there quality in weight quantity?

Kraig


Kraig, I would suspect part of the difference may be in a % of retained moisture in the wood itself and the type of finish applied. As far as "quality in weight quantity".....I am a big fan of Cocobolo and Ebony. IMO these are among THE BEST sounding woods used and just happen to be the heavier, however, I have used other woods not as heavy but sound very close or in some cases as good as the heavier woods. ;)

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, if the bass feels great in my hands, plays and sounds great, and it's a bit on the "heavy side", ask me if I care. :rolleyes:

[Ronson Hall]

Kraig, I would suspect part of the difference may be in a % of retained moisture in the wood itself and the type of finish applied. As far as "quality in weight quantity".....I am a big fan of Cocobolo and Ebony. IMO these are among THE BEST sounding woods used and just happen to be the heavier, however, I have used other woods not as heavy but sound very close or in some cases as good as the heavier woods. ;)

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, if the bass feels great in my hands, plays and sounds great, and it's a bit on the "heavy side", ask me if I care. :rolleyes:

Ditto, Tim!

My Cocobolo beauty is heavier than what I played last, but, it sounds so good that...I don't care!! :rolleyes:

[Tim Bishop]

Ditto, Tim!

My Cocobolo beauty is heavier than what I played last, but, it sounds so good that...I don't care!! :rolleyes:


Yeah, baby! :D

[Albert Smith]

Ken,

I have wondered for years why Ken Smith Basses (that I have played) are heavier than other basses with the same amount of strings. When you look at the body and the body shape, usually the Ken Smith is thinner and the shape is similar if not smaller to other high quality basses. I understand that Cocobolo and Ebony are heavier than ash and alder, but a 5 or 6 string smiths is usually 10-12 lbs, while a MTD, Fodera, or Pre-Gibson Tobias will weigh between 8.5-10 lbs. Is it all wood species, or is there a belief that heavier woods of the same species, make better tone woods?

To me an 10 lbs bass is comfortable, while an 11+ lb bass needs to be used in a rotation when performing longer sets.

Is there quality in weight quantity?

Kraig

Kraig, Understandably all bass players have different needs, but given the choice, Id rather have a heavy Ken Smith Bass, then to settle for a high priced bass that just doesn't give me the tone, range, and superb craftsmanship that's a given with Kens' creations. If the bass is too heavy buy a musicians stool. :cool:

[Chris Holsopple]

Yes, Smith Basses are heavy, that why I bought one of these-

http://www.comfortstrapp.com/

THE BEST strap I have ever used. Relieved my shoulder pain completely even on 4 hour gigs, however my back pain remains. No strap will relieve an aching back from that hanging weight. I get a burning sensation across the middle of my back, just below my shoulder blades. The heavier the bass, the worse it gets.

Heavy doesn't always mean good tone, tho. I recently had a very hi-end bass made for me that was in the 12lb. range. The body was 5A flame maple with Asian ebony on top. BEAUTIFUL- but the tone was, well.., blah. I even tried different p-ups. Just couldn't wake that thing up. So now it's gone, and I'm going back to Smith. My 1st Smith bass was just a simple BSR5M-A, ash body, and I've owned 3 other Smith 5's since, and it was probably the most responsive of them. And it was a light-weight. Wish I could get her back....

Chris

[Michael Stram]

A musicians stool????!!?!?!?!:eek:

No real musician sits on stage while playing.:p

Thats an insult to the music.:D

[Ken Smith]

The average Smith Bass is 9-10lbs. This is a 5-string Bass. 4s are less and 6s are more. I have seen 4-string Jazz basses in Baseball Bat Ash weighing over 12lbs. Now, That is what I call heavy. The exotic woods also can add weight so don't blame me, blame yourself for ordering it with Ebony, Bubinga and Cocobolo Tops!

How about those companies using solid Bubinga for a Body? That not only weighs half a ton, it kills the tone as well.

[Tim Bishop]

[quote=Ken Smith;6258]The average Smith Bass is 9-10lbs. This is a 5-string Bass. 4s are less and 6s are more. I have seen 4-string Jazz basses in Baseball Bat Ash weighing over 12lbs. Now, That is what I call heavy. The exotic woods also can add weight so don't blame me, blame yourself for ordering it with Ebony, Bubinga and Cocobolo Tops!

quote]

Well, I'll be the first to "blame myself" then. I'll take a Cocobolo top seven days a week and twice on Sunday! :D Oh, and go ahead and throw in the Ebony and Bubinga for all those other times. :rolleyes:

[Bob Faulkner]

A musicians stool????!!?!?!?!:eek:

No real musician sits on stage while playing.:p

Thats an insult to the music.:D


My music sounds the same regardless of whether I'm sitting or standing..

I broke my back when I was 19, so standing for very long periods is not what one would call "a good thing".. If playing a longer show, I'll have a stool set up just in case..

[Christopher Rhodes]

I have one of these rather heavy basses - but I love her so much. MD7. Her booty is wide - and she feels good :)

Seriously... When I play my 7-string smith on a gig - I generally split my time between standing and sitting. It is much easier to peform sitting, but sometimes I have to stand - especially for some solos - but other solos, I will sit.

I have no hard fast rules about it - I just do what I think will make the song happen.

I do tend to enjoy my ken smith sitting however - I guess father time is catching up with me :). I think that most players get better performances sitting also - because the bass is balancing on you leg - and your fret hand is free ( or more free) to focus on just playing the intruments, vice balancing it.

The heavy cocobolo does produce a very unique sound - other smiths do not have that type of tone - is it better? debatable - but different - yes.

Other times however, I do prefer a light weight bass. Especially long gigs - so I have other basses for those gigs.

ok.. thats my two cents...

[Dave Cody]

I have always felt that a well balanced bass and good strap solves most weight issues

[Tim Bishop]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, if the bass feels great in my hands, plays and sounds great, and it's a bit on the "heavy side", ask me if I care. :rolleyes:

[Ronson Hall]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, if the bass feels great in my hands, plays and sounds great, and it's a bit on the "heavy side", ask me if I care. :rolleyes:


Well, it's time to take up the offering, 'cuz you just preached the truth, Mr. Bishop! ;)

[Ray C. Parrish]

I have always like heavy basses. The position of the neck just seems more stable especially when you are doing difficult lines that require you to change position quickly up and down the neck. Sounds a little corny, but it's true! :o

[Jason Mendelson]

Personally think my BMTE6G Fretted and BSRE6G Frettless are perfect weight...

The Frettless is lighter for some reason ;)

[Bob Faulkner]

The Frettless is lighter for some reason ;)

Less metal!

[Jason Mendelson]

hence the ;)

[Steve_M]

FWIW it's always possible to chamber denser body cores out if weight is an issue for some. Alembic do it with super dense mahogany and the range of basses I'm currently developing will feature it as well although I prefer the sound of alder for the prototypes. But we might offer mahogany as an option too.

[Ken Smith]

FWIW it's always possible to chamber denser body cores out if weight is an issue for some. Alembic do it with super dense mahogany and the range of basses I'm currently developing will feature it as well although I prefer the sound of alder for the prototypes. But we might offer mahogany as an option too.

First off, our Basses are not Heavy. Some of the woods you guys request for the Body Tops & Backs like Ebony, Cocobolo and several others are heavy, not the Bass they were put on. Also, Mahogany is NOT a dense wood by any means or measurement that I am aware of.

Chambering the Body also creates overtones that you can't control not to mention possible Glue drips internally. We have made some of these back in the 1980s and it's not any kind of improvement. If anything, it lightens the body area and makes the neck feel heavier.

Our Basses are not light either. They are what they are, solid! Take the Pickups, Bridge and Circuit components and weigh them. These are not plastic toy components. They have a bit of mass on their own. Maple and Walnut were the first woods we used for body materials and I would be more than happy to stick with them. The problem is that some people want something else and they often weigh more. The bigger the Neck (6 over 5 etc), the more the bass will weigh.

I can't see the point in this Thread by the Title it has. It starts out with a false assumption. If our Basses were really heavy, we would not still be making them after 30 years, I think.

Steve M., are you working for Alembic now, promoting them or starting your own company? If so to any of the above, remember what forum you are on.

[Bob Faulkner]

Ya I'm not sure where the heavy idea came from.

My Smith bass is not the lightest I own, but it's also not the heaviest I own either. It darn sure is the best bass I own, hands down.

[Michael Wilson]

If anybody does not like the weight of there Smith i will be glad to take them of your hands[for free of course] There is nothing and i mean nothing like my 91 BTG6 Ebony. I sent it to Ken for some TLC and when he heard the tone, his words were and i quote, "This Bass Is Slammin" No more to be said.

[Michael Wilson]

Ken,

Do you make custom basses? like a bass with a maple fingerboard. If not why? if i wanted any type of wood combo for a custom bass would that be a issue for you to make.

Mike

[Ken Smith]

Ken,

Do you make custom basses? like a bass with a maple fingerboard. If not why? if i wanted any type of wood combo for a custom bass would that be a issue for you to make.

Mike

We offer what we offer because I feel that is the best for what we make in general.

Maple is way softer than Morado for a Fingerboard and even softer than the harder Ebony. That is going backwards. They gave up Maple when Ebony got popular, about 100 years ago. Fender solid Maple necks were made for cost, not quality.

I am not going to cut down some tree for an idea someone has about a Bass. I have already what I think makes a good Bass. We are not new at doing this. I think 30 years doing says something.

On the "Custom" question we do make Custom combinations of the woods within what we offer. Not trying at all to be harsh on my reply above but to get the results I am comfortable with in advance, I need to stick with what I already know. I do not want to experiment with your money.

[Bob Faulkner]

Ken has a thing about his basses.. He likes to know that when he sells one, it will be kicking along just fine 20-30 years later as long as it's taken care of. When I ordered my Smith I also wanted a custom neck, but he shot the idea down because he didn't want to compromise on the longevity of the bass.. If you order a bass today, it's getting a neck that was glued up often several years ago and has been acclimating since then so that it's as stable as possible when it goes on a bass.. This method works.. I've had my bass for 7 years now and through hot, cold, humid, dry, light to medium gauge strings, etc, I've never had to touch my truss rod.. That neck is a rock..

[Ken Smith]

The Thread originator posted a potential damaging claim which by the replies posted from other Smith Bass owners easily disputes any misconception about the average weight of a Smith Bass.

By his own Profile statement (Musical Background;Not much to tell, have been more of a bass collector than a musician, but I love all things bass.) our friend Kraig Gregory is not a regular player so this is just his viewpoint.

After several Replies in the Thread he originated, he has not come back at all to interact or discuss this possibly damaging comment. Therefor, I have re-name this thread to reflect his viewpoint rather than just a statement of fact.

If one is only a part time player, the physical aspect of playing the Bass can be more fatiguing than it would be for those that play daily and work within the music profession regularly. I myself rarely play Electric (Smith) Bass outside of the office these days as I mainly only play Double Bass for Symphony or Jazz gigs. When playing that 'occasional' BG job, even 9 or 10 lbs. on your shoulder is noticeable if you are not used to it, period.

[Kraig Gregory]

First off let me say that I in no way started this thread to damage or insult anyone or brand. I love Ken Smith Basses and have owned four of them and loved them all. I expecially love the BMT basses made during the mid 1990's. While I would say that I am more of a collector than a player, I have owned over 50 high end and vintage basses and two of my BMT's are in my top 5. As far as neck through basses, nothing compares to a 7 piece body and 7 piece neck Ken Smith. I am currently droolling over Tim's Cocobolo 6 right now, wishing I had the funds.

Yes, I know a cocobolo 6 is at the top of the weight scale, but I can just imagine how the bass sounds. I rarely get out and play anymore and there is something about purchasing a smith that tells you that you made a wise investment. The fact that Ken's basses hold their value is not by chance. They are extremely well built and have incredible tone and the highest level of craftmanship.

Of the BMT's I have owned, two were quilt maple, one tiger maple, and one cocobolo. I regret that am currently BMT less, because they were all extraordinary basses. The weights of them ranged from 10-12 lbs (5-6 strings only).

So as you can tell, I am a fan of Ken Smith Basses and would purchase one today without blinking an eye. I appreciate everyones input and time.