J945 pickups output issue

[Amit Shtriker]

Hi,
I've been playing a BSR4J-MW for 4 years now, and since I got it I noticed that the output of the pickups is relatively low, at both passive and active modes. I always connected it to the "Passive" input on amplifiers that had seperate inputs for active and passive, as though I used it with the preamp in active mode, most of the time with EQ boost. I always had to use a good amount of gain to bring it to a good level, and the output is always lower compared to other basses (passive and of course active).
This never bothered me as you can see because I sounded a lot better then those basses even at a lower volume..

Lately I started wondering that maybe there is someting wrong with my electronics. Are the J945 pickups supposed to have a relatively low output (and there is nothing extremely wrong about it), ot it's just my pickups that have some kind of a problem?

Thanks a lot.

[Tim Bishop]

Hi,
I've been playing a BSR4J-MW for 4 years now, and since I got it I noticed that the output of the pickups is relatively low, at both passive and active modes. I always connected it to the "Passive" input on amplifiers that had seperate inputs for active and passive, as though I used it with the preamp in active mode, most of the time with EQ boost. I always had to use a good amount of gain to bring it to a good level, and the output is always lower compared to other basses (passive and of course active).
This never bothered me as you can see because I sounded a lot better then those basses even at a lower volume..

Lately I started wondering that maybe there is someting wrong with my electronics. Are the J945 pickups supposed to have a relatively low output (and there is nothing extremely wrong about it), ot it's just my pickups that have some kind of a problem?

Thanks a lot.


Amit,

First off, I never assume much anymore, however, I will assume that you know there is a big difference between "Passive" and "Active" as far as the output goes. Given that......

A couple of questions and possible solutions that come to mind:

1. Is the battery fresh? If no, replace and test-drive. If yes, go to #2 below.

2. Do you have a p/u gain adjustment? If yes, maybe it is not adjusted "hot" enough to match your amp output. If you do adjust p/u gain adjustment, be sure not to adjust too "hot" as to overdrive the amp!

3. If #1 and #2 meet satisfaction, check your p/u height relative to string height.

Let me know what you discover. :)

[Amit Shtriker]

Thanks Tim!

I wrote that I bought this bass 4 years ago, so I've had a couple of battery replacements - with a fresh battery, there was no significant difference between passive and active mode (EQ flat), and when the battery needed replacement I knew it when the passive mode was even louder then the active..

By P/U gain I assume you mean the amp's input gain (before EQ), because I don't have any level adjustment in the bass' preamp cavity - this is what I wrote about needing to bring the preamp gain significantly high for the level to be adequate at the master output.

About changing the pickup height, tried this also last week when I tried to set up the bass (I couldn't bring it to the condition it was when I got it.. time to take it to a professional tech), but I felt that the sound changed in a way I didn't like (or wasn't used to), so I changed back the height to where it was.

Is there any other advice for me or anything to check out?:)

[Tim Bishop]

Thanks Tim!

I wrote that I bought this bass 4 years ago, so I've had a couple of battery replacements - with a fresh battery, there was no significant difference between passive and active mode (EQ flat), and when the battery needed replacement I knew it when the passive mode was even louder then the active..

By P/U gain I assume you mean the amp's input gain (before EQ), because I don't have any level adjustment in the bass' preamp cavity - this is what I wrote about needing to bring the preamp gain significantly high for the level to be adequate at the master output.

About changing the pickup height, tried this also last week when I tried to set up the bass (I couldn't bring it to the condition it was when I got it.. time to take it to a professional tech), but I felt that the sound changed in a way I didn't like (or wasn't used to), so I changed back the height to where it was.

Is there any other advice for me or anything to check out?:)


No, I'm not talking about "amp's input gain". I'm talking about the bass' gain. Are you sure there is no gain adjustment on that bass' pre-amp circuit? Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with your model, however, make sure that truly is the case. Can you send me a photo of the inside of the electronics cavity?

[Amit Shtriker]

O.K.
My bass has the old B.M.T 3 band circuit (9 Volt). I am in between sets in a little morning gig now, so when I get home I will look for the gain adjustment and will post a pic of the preamp cavity.. Thanks:cool:

[Christopher Rhodes]

I own several basses from various makers. I have also noticed the low output of the Smith basses. I have two. Nothing is wrong with them - that is how they are designed. I have noticed that when in the active mode - it only activates the Bass, Middle and Treble knobs. In the passive mode - only the volume and blend knobs work. I am not why this is - however - I suspect this helps in studio recording sessions - keeping the bass quite.

There is a solution - a very good one. Use a "Pickup booster". I have recently been using this - and what a huge difference. Amazingly so. I got the idea from the man - Melvin Lee Davis. Check it out.

I am using the Seymour Duncan Booster - but I would like to try the Xotic Booster in the below youtube demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFem2m3WY30&mode=related&search=
Melvin Davis talks about Xotic Bass RC Booster

oh yea - the pickup booster works for all the basses - active or passive or piezo - simply put - a must have for each of your basses.

I am on the hunt for more of them - one in each gig bag!

[Amit Shtriker]

Thanks Chris:)

What is the pickup booster good for other then raising the volume (which is not a very critical problem)? And I think what you said about the recording sessions, is the opposite - because the bass' output is low, more gain is needed to record it in a healthy level, which induce more noise.. Anyway, even in passive mode it's quieter than any other passive bass I recorded (like Shechter or Fender).

And Tim, here's a shot of the elctronics cavity:

http://i18.tinypic.com/4pn3w91.jpg

Is the pickup gain the little blue thing on the upper right? What level should I opt for and is there a possibility of adjusting the gain too high and distort before the amp input (I mean the internal bass' preamp)?
Was the gain intentionally adjusted so that the active and passive won't have that much difference in level or should the active mode be adjusted hotter than the passive?

[Christopher Rhodes]

Ive had this unit for only about one week - and it does more than just raise the volume - it adds a fullness that is not there otherwise. It is dead quiet without altering your tone at all. Clean boost without that "hiss" sound sometimes present in a preamp - with more gain.

Maybe you can check one out at your local music store to see exactly it will do for your bass. It only costs about $80.

I tried using on my home recorder - and again - dead quiet, but a greater signal strength from the bass.

[Amit Shtriker]

This is interesting Chris.. I guess this booster can help my sound anyway:) . I think I can't find it here in Israel because no one brought it, but I am having a trip to the U.S. in a couple of months, so I'm sure I will try one:cool: . b.t.w. Where did you find that pedal for $80? Everywhere I saw it, it was $186...

[Tim Bishop]

And Tim, here's a shot of the elctronics cavity:

http://i18.tinypic.com/4pn3w91.jpg

Is the pickup gain the little blue thing on the upper right? What level should I opt for and is there a possibility of adjusting the gain too high and distort before the amp input (I mean the internal bass' preamp)?
Was the gain intentionally adjusted so that the active and passive won't have that much difference in level or should the active mode be adjusted hotter than the passive?

Yes, ("the little blue thing") that is the gain adjustment. As far as level and to increase gain, you will need to make a clock-wise adjustment forward until you are happy with what you need from the bass without overdriving the amp you are playing through. Depending on the amp you play through and/or how you have the amps levels set, you may be able to max out the bass' gain adjustment without overdriving the amp. I've never had to adjust the bass' gain that high though, so, just be careful: Take your time and be gentle making the adjustment. It's an easy adjustment, however, if you are not comfortable doing this, find someone qualified who is.

Also, in active-mode (with a good fresh battery) there will always be a noticeable "hotter" overall output level than the passive.

The passive mode was designed to get you through a gig when the battery has failed. If you play in passive mode, you will need to make the appropriate adjustment to the amplifier you play through in order to get the output and tone you desire. When you are in passive mode, the bass' active electronics/pre-amp are by-passed.

[Christopher Rhodes]

I have the Duncan. I was just using it in passive mode with my 7 string Smtih - very clean - with more output volume.

[Tim Bishop]

This is interesting Chris.. I guess this booster can help my sound anyway:) . I think I can't find it here in Israel because no one brought it, but I am having a trip to the U.S. in a couple of months, so I'm sure I will try one:cool: . b.t.w. Where did you find that pedal for $80? Everywhere I saw it, it was $186...

Amit, before you spend any additional $'s, make sure your bass' gain adjustment is set optimally and that a professional set-up is achieved. Also, when you get your bass set-up, set it up with a fresh set of Smith Medium Taper Cores. ;)

[Tim Bishop]

I own several basses from various makers. I have also noticed the low output of the Smith basses. I have two. Nothing is wrong with them - that is how they are designed. I have noticed that when in the active mode - it only activates the Bass, Middle and Treble knobs. In the passive mode - only the volume and blend knobs work. I am not why this is - however - I suspect this helps in studio recording sessions - keeping the bass quite.



Chris, passive mode is designed as a back-up to the the bass' pre-amp/active electronics should the battery die during a gig. So, what you describe above is exactly correct because in passive mode you are by-passing the bass' pre-amp/active electronics. Also, see my other replies to Amit's question about bass' gain control.

[Amit Shtriker]

Thanks a lot Tim!
I am not that intimidated by electronics as you might think:) , I actually studied electronics in high school (even though I skipped a lot of classes so I could spend more time playing bass:D ).. I am sure this won't be a big of a deal for me:cool:

When you are in passive mode, the bass' active electronics/pre-amp are by-passed.

Of course, I asked that question because I was thinking that the active gain was normally adjusted to be close in level to the passive mode:) . And thanks for your recommendation on the taper cores, actually I am going to take the bass in for setup this sunday (first time in 4 years..), and even the coated Elixirs couldn't stand the wear of the last busy (and also fun) month.. Feel I need a change in brand, something fresh.. I hope the taper cores will feel smooth under my hands, it became an essential part of my playing in the last 2 years.:cool:

And thanks again, Chris, I will try both boosters on my trip ,after my bass is in a healthy condition.. And then see if I need one..

[Tim Bishop]

Thanks a lot Tim!
I am not that intimidated by electronics as you might think:) , I actually studied electronics in high school (even though I skipped a lot of classes so I could spend more time playing bass:D ).. I am sure this won't be a big of a deal for me :cool:

Great! Than you should be good to go!


Of course, I asked that question because I was thinking that the active gain was normally adjusted to be close in level to the passive mode.

Again, passive mode is intended to be used in the event the battery fails during a gig so you can continue playing. Activating passive mode by-passes the pre-amp/active electronics.

:)

Let me know how everything turns out when all is well and done.

[Amit Shtriker]

Everything is great now.. I turned up the gain and now I got a really healthy signal out of my bass, and the passive level is very low compared to the active in flat EQ. I also got my bass set up by a professional and it plays well. The only thing I'm not sure about is the Smith Taper Core strings (didn't want to move over and write again in the strings thread, sorry). They sound great and crisp out of the package, but I have a really big issue with them not being smooth enough for me (I were used to the Elixir coated ones), I feel a little bit uninspired because my playing involves a fair amount of smooth slides, and the strings kind of not letting me feel free moving across the neck.:confused: The guitar tech let me try some kind of string lubricant, and it felt better at that moment, but I don't know if I want to rely on lube all the time.. Do you use anything to keep your strings smooth or is it just me and you feel these strings are smooth enough? Maybe I just need to get used to them because they really sound good on my bass.. And I hope they will not go dead too fast:)

[Tim Bishop]

Everything is great now.. I turned up the gain and now I got a really healthy signal out of my bass, and the passive level is very low compared to the active in flat EQ. I also got my bass set up by a professional and it plays well. The only thing I'm not sure about is the Smith Taper Core strings (didn't want to move over and write again in the strings thread, sorry). They sound great and crisp out of the package, but I have a really big issue with them not being smooth enough for me (I were used to the Elixir coated ones), I feel a little bit uninspired because my playing involves a fair amount of smooth slides, and the strings kind of not letting me feel free moving across the neck.:confused: The guitar tech let me try some kind of string lubricant, and it felt better at that moment, but I don't know if I want to rely on lube all the time.. Do you use anything to keep your strings smooth or is it just me and you feel these strings are smooth enough? Maybe I just need to get used to them because they really sound good on my bass.. And I hope they will not go dead too fast:)

Amit, give it some time, break them in and then see what you think. I would not have recommended putting lubricant on the strings as that will just contribute to the strings going dead quicker. :mad:

I'm not surprised the new strings sound really good on your bass. :D That's why I recommended them. :rolleyes: I can't imagine using Elixir's, nickels, or any type of coated bass string. To me these types of strings just sound dead.....but that's just me, however, I suspect you would agree now that you've played both?

I have no issue with slides using Medium Taper Cores (steels). It's all about feel and touch. I think as you get use to them you'll be ok. Let me know after you've gone through a set or two. ;)

I'm glad your happy with your set-up. :)

[Bob Faulkner]

Have you tried the compressors? They're a lot easier to slide on and still retain a good zing.

[Amit Shtriker]

Haven't tried them yet, Bob:) I think I can't find them in my location.. But I will try them in my trip to U.S in a couple of months:cool: Do you know where can I find them? I think that the big music stores don't have them..
These are regular strings without the taper core right? I guess I'll have to set up the bass again for them:mad:

[Bob Faulkner]

Haven't tried them yet, Bob:) I think I can't find them in my location.. But I will try them in my trip to U.S in a couple of months:cool: Do you know where can I find them? I think that the big music stores don't have them..
These are regular strings without the taper core right? I guess I'll have to set up the bass again for them:mad:


I order them direct from Ken. They aren't taper core, though I wish they would make taper core compressors. In truth I found my Smith accepted them just fine without needing any adjustments.

[Tim Bishop]

Haven't tried them yet, Bob:) I think I can't find them in my location.. But I will try them in my trip to U.S in a couple of months:cool: Do you know where can I find them? I think that the big music stores don't have them..
These are regular strings without the taper core right? I guess I'll have to set up the bass again for them:mad:

I order them direct from Ken. They aren't taper core, though I wish they would make taper core compressors. In truth I found my Smith accepted them just fine without needing any adjustments.

Amit, if you do decide to change strings from Taper Cores to something other than Taper Cores and depending on how good your set-up was, you most likely will need to complete another set-up and what a complete waste of your money that will be: Again, I would recommend you give the Taper Cores some time to adjust to your playing since you are not use to them. Otherwise, good luck!

[Dennis Michaels]

Amit, if you do decide to change strings from Taper Cores to something other than Taper Cores and depending on how good your set-up was, you most likely will need to complete another set-up and what a complete waste of your money that will be: Again, I would recommend you give the Taper Cores some time to adjust to your playing since you are not use to them. Otherwise, good luck!


I agree with Tim.

[Tim Bishop]

I agree with Tim.

Thx Dennis......can always use the additional ammo. :)

[Mauricio Guillen]

hi, i,m mauricio guillen from Chihuahua Mexico
i just got a 5 strings Fusion 2005 bass with the bmt3 18 volts
i need to know if there,s way to raise the p/u gain because i think
is too low

thanks for your help

[Tim Bishop]

hi, i,m mauricio guillen from Chihuahua Mexico
i just got a 5 strings Fusion 2005 bass with the bmt3 18 volts
i need to know if there,s way to raise the p/u gain because i think
is too low

thanks for your help

Yes, but be careful not to push it too much. You don't want to overdrive your amp!!! :eek:

The adjustment is inside with the pre-amp. You'll notice a small trim pot adjustment on the circuit board between the 2 batteries next to the dip switches and just above the bass control pot. You will need a very small flat-head screwdriver to make the adjustment. The gain is set well from the factory, so not much additional gain is usually needed.

For a lack of a better way to say it: If you are looking down on the trim pot, invision a clock face. Ken usually has these set at around 10 O'Clock. With the lowest setting at say, 4 O'Clock, and the highest at 2 O'Clock, you have allot of room for adjustment. I don't think I've ever pushed beyond 11 or 12 O'Clock. But again, this depends on how much you need to get out of your bass relative to what your amp can handle optimally.

BTW, why do you think you need to make this adjustment? Are you sure your bass is set-up right for you? Generally speaking, I find very little adjustment is needed for me on any Smith bass that comes set-up from Ken. However, I'm not suggesting what works for me, works for you or anyone else. Only you can know that.

[Mauricio Guillen]

i compare setup in my amplifier ampeq with other bass
and has more gain
i have already adjust the gain in the bass thanks for your help
it was like 8 o, clock i made adjust to 10 o, clock
and now

thanks again