D'oh moment

[Matthew Tucker]

I acquired a czech ply bass as a project bass for my daughter and a practice job for me. It wasn't strung up when I got it, as the bottom block was stuffed. So I replaced the bottom block, cleaned up a few dings from inside, stripped the varnish (it was pretty awful) and after tossing up for ages, removed and reset the neck (remember that epoxy gluey mess?). I did a bloody good job, too, I think, with new mortise cheeks beautifully fit and the overstand now a scant 30mm. Graphite rod in the neck, button neatly replaced, and the ugly repair mess that was there before is now a thing of beauty. So, as the bass lies in its cradle for revarnishing, I happened to measure the scale length - would you believe, for the first time.

... 44"

D'oh!

I had the opportunity to correct this a bit when I had the neck off. I should have measured before; I could have shortened the neck. I could have shortened the scale by at least an inch by setting heel further into the block. All I can do now is a false nut, which won't achieve much.

WHY didn't I measure this before?? :confused:

[Bob Branstetter]

Maybe this would be a good time to do your first neck graft. :)

[Jeff Moote]

Just play it at 44"

Is the bass big enough to sound good at that length? If so, that's a nice 4/4 string length and is not totally unplayable. Maybe a false nut and a bit of cheating the bridge can bring it to 43" or 42.5" which are totally reasonable :)

[Ken Smith]

I acquired a czech ply bass as a project bass for my daughter and a practice job for me. It wasn't strung up when I got it, as the bottom block was stuffed. So I replaced the bottom block, cleaned up a few dings from inside, stripped the varnish (it was pretty awful) and after tossing up for ages, removed and reset the neck (remember that epoxy gluey mess?). I did a bloody good job, too, I think, with new mortise cheeks beautifully fit and the overstand now a scant 30mm. Graphite rod in the neck, button neatly replaced, and the ugly repair mess that was there before is now a thing of beauty. So, as the bass lies in its cradle for revarnishing, I happened to measure the scale length - would you believe, for the first time.

... 44"

D'oh!

I had the opportunity to correct this a bit when I had the neck off. I should have measured before; I could have shortened the neck. I could have shortened the scale by at least an inch by setting heel further into the block. All I can do now is a false nut, which won't achieve much.

WHY didn't I measure this before?? :confused:

First off, never less than a D neck. Eb necks add to the string length quite a bit. Solutions for shorting string length include, false Nut, Block cut/lower set, New Block with lower set/and or placement, Neck Splice (shorten length and maintain D-neck minimum), New Neck Graft, New Neck, Cheat the bridge up an inch or so (bottom of bridge feet at or above the FF notches) and any combination of the above to get he results you need.

On some of my Basses we have done the following;

Loveri (D+/Eb neck):False Nut and cheat bridge combined (Mod. not currently pictured on the website). String length reduced from 43"+ to under 42" depending on bridge placement. (this job done be me)

Morelli (Eb neck): New lower set block, shoulder/block area trimmed and bridge cheated. String Length reduced from 43.5-44" to 42 3/8" final. (AES Restored)

Shen 7/8" (D-neck): Bridge cheated up. String length from 42" to 41.5". Movable as needed between the two. Soundpost in same place either way.

Prescott 4/4 (was to 7/8th 19th century) D-neck: New neck Graft, new neck block, lower set. Bridge on the notches. String length reduced from over 43" to 41 3/4". (AES Restored)

Things to watch carefully for: The F# note should be reachable in 6th position 4th finger and not over the shoulders in Thumb Position. Play an A in first pos./1st finger and shift quickly to 1st finger F#, 3rd finger G#, with your palm/wrist reaching the edge of the top/shoulder. This is mainly for D-necks with Eb necks having slightly more room. If it seems hard to reach the F#, then you have a problem with the length/note layout. Measurements are only as good as it makes the Bass playable!

Recently Paul Biase and myself did some measurements on my Mystery Bass which is getting a Block-cut with some slight trimming around the upper shoulder/block area. We took an Italian Bass with a D-Neck and a 42" string length and measured from the upper bridge foot to the Shoulder where your hand touches. This was the first time I saw this type of measurement as usually I have only seen the neck measured from under the Nut to the end of the neck and from the Neck end to Bridge foot. Biase points out that although it is a close measurement, it is not exact enough as the neck heel/butt can vary from bass to bass and what we need is the 'playable' type measurement to the shoulder of the bass to hit the correct notes in tune.

After my Bass had been there in a slow restoration for about 3 years, I felt that was the best day yet seeing the measurement taken for playability which is why I bought the Bass to begin with, to play it!

[Matthew Tucker]

Maybe this would be a good time to do your first neck graft. :)


Aaaaaargh ... I knew you'd say that. And if only I hadn't just done such a neat and permanent job with the graphite neck insert (ep*xy), I would. But now I hesitate to remove the neck from the block, and I don't know how I'd go cutting/splicing the neck with the graphite in there. It's going to ruin my tools, isn't it??

I think I'll tack the old fingerboard on first, string it up and see how it plays. If its playable for me I might keep it that way. If Its all too hard, then I'll HAVE to shorten it, won't I? Either to give to my daughter, or to sell. Grrrr.

[Matthew Tucker]

I strung it up tonight with some crap strings I had lying around, just to see.

Just as well I tried crap strings, 'cos I broke two G's trying to get it up to pitch before I realised the problem. D'oh. I didn't think of that.

It sounds like a big ply bass, as you'd expect. Fairly dark, OK sustain.

Jeff you're right, I can play 44" OK. Its a bit more athletic, quite fun actually, and I could get used to it ... but I think the above problem is a bigger one. The bass probably isn't going to have much of a future if it needs non-standard strings, unless its tuned down to DGCF as a matter of course ...

[Jeff Moote]

Any 4/4 strings will do, correct? They're usually the same price as a 3/4 set.

[Matthew Tucker]

This morning I played the bass after it had been under tension all night, tuned to DGCF. Surprisingly nice, and worth persevering with. But I really can't see it getting a lot of use at 44" so I'm pretty much resigned to the task of cutting the neck down somehow.

Any luthiers able to give me any hints on how to cut that long splice? I'm thinking a backless japanese katana saw perhaps ... and a hacksaw to get through the graphite part ... ugh.

Can the job be done with the neck still on the bass or will i have to (groan) somehow get that neck out of the block again?

[Bob Branstetter]

I know you don't want to hear it, but I don't see how anything other than a neck graft or a total neck replacement is going to give you a long term solution. I assume you are talking about a long scarf joint. The graphite bar and epoxy will make that very difficult to do, if not impossible. I've never been a fan of scarf joints on bass necks. Even if you can do a near perfect job, over time those long thin edges of the scarf always seem to chip away or snag on something (Think wood splinter in your thumb!).

[Matthew Tucker]

Well Bob, for better or for worse, I already extracted the graphite rod and did a spline graft, without removing the neck from the bass.

This is a cheap bass for my daughter. I spent a couple of hours on this and I think a scroll graft would take a lot longer, not including the time to remove the neck and go through all that again..

If it turns out unsatisfactory I can still do the longer and better repair.

But I think I did a good job.

:)

[Bob Branstetter]

Hi Matt - It looks like you did a nice job with it. I would have expected you having more trouble getting the graphite bar out with that thin neck.

Maybe the next cheap bass you get will have a broken neck and you can try your hand at a neck graft. I have a feeling, from looking at your previous work, that you would be able to do a good graft too. I've always felt that completing a nice graft is one of the most satisfying experiences a luthier can have.