A Pfretzschner in the hand...(AKA the Farm Wife)

[Mark Plummer]

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Those of you that frequent the "other" bass discussion board know the story, for those of you that don't...

This bass was found in an Iowa road ditch by my father. It was undoubtedly a school instrument as it has a long defunct school name in marker on the side.

I've taken it to a highly reputable luthier and his take on it was..
German, WWI vintage, fully carved, not in bad shape at all, will make a terrific jazz bass. :)

I'm really excited to start the restoration.

Discuss! :D

[Ken Smith]

To me, that Bass looks to be a Wilfer (Juzek brand labeled import) and not a Pfretzschner. In my readings I have learned that all the members of the Pfretzschner family were Bow makers and not Violin makers with one exception and that was C.F. Pfretzschner I, II and III from the late 18th century on into the early 20th century. G.A. Pfretzschner is actually listed as a Bow maker only! I believe that his name was used for labels in instruments imported from Germany after 1900. Morelli and Juzek are two other 'import' names used as well in a similar manner.

Age wise as a Wilfer I would put that Bass after WWII and not WWI. The Purfling design under the Back Button does not look like the Pre-war Bass I have seen by Anton Wilfer bur rather the later ones I believe by Wenzel Wilfer a.k.a W.B.W.

How that Bass has a Pfretzschner label can be any number of reasons. Here is a picture of a typical Pfretzschner label from a Bass I once owned (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/MorelliBass.htm);

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/images/label.JPG


The design in the Back as seen here used by Pfretzschner (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/MorelliBass2.htm) is quite different that your Bass.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MorelliBass/images/pufling.JPG

The Label pic you posted is not very clear. Please tell us exactly what it says. Mine says;
-------------------------------------------
Artist Deluxe Model (hand written script)
Andreas Morelli (printed in script)
Handmade Reproduction (printed in script)
Antonio Stradivarius (hand written script)
Trade Mark Registered
--------------------------------------------------

I have seen Basses exactly like mine in both 3/4, 7/8 and large 7/8 (4/4) that had either a Morelli label like mine or a G.A. Pfretzschner label inside the Bass.

[Mark Plummer]

Ken, Thanks for the input. Is it possible that a Wifler/Juzek would have come with a Pfretzschner label?
The label reads

Reproduction of Antonio Stradavarius 172?

Made By GA Pfretzschner

[Ken Smith]

Ken, Thanks for the input. Is it possible that a Wifler/Juzek would have come with a Pfretzschner label?
The label reads

Reproduction of Antonio Stradavarius 172?

Made By GA Pfretzschner

No, they don't come here with any labels at all except maybe origin like made in Germany or a real Wilfer Label on the better ones. The importer labels them here. No foreign made domestic product is labeled in English unless it is made for export to USA or UK but in most cases, they come unlabeled and the dealer/importer places the label inside the Bass, not the shop in Germany.

Repo. of Strad? Really? Like which Bass that Strad made is it a Repo of? ZIP!! Strad did not make ANY Double Basses at all, EVER! It is a Repo only of the last German Bass made the week before and nothing more.

I have a beautiful English bass from 1814 from a period when they were just starting to copy Strad as Stainer and Amati were still the known Kings. My Bass is a copy of a Strad Cello and with the exception on the slight shoulder cut of c.1870, it looks like a Strad Cello! If it is a copy of Strad, it would look like This (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/GilkesBass/GilkesBass.htm)!

The only part that is copied on these German basses from Strad is that they are made of wood, the have strings and they make some kind of sound. Other then that, there is nothing in the make or design of the Bass that is taken from Strad other than the spelling of his name.

[Mark Plummer]

No, they don't come here with any labels at all except maybe origin like made in Germany or a real Wilfer Label on the better ones. The importer labels them here. No foreign made domestic product is labeled in English unless it is made for export to USA or UK but in most cases, they come unlabeled and the dealer/importer places the label inside the Bass, not the shop in Germany.

Please bear with me, I'm a DB neophyte.

So it's likely that this is a wilfer/juzek. Yah the luthier wasn't sure it was a Pfretzschner either. Interesting..
Do you suppose that the label (added by the importer) could be a violin, viola or cello label?

Whatever the maker, I think I happened on to a good instrument, the luthier was enthusiastic about it. He said, "It'll be better than you, or me for that matter."

[Ken Smith]

Please bear with me, I'm a DB neophyte.

So it's likely that this is a wifler/juzek. Yah the luthier wasn't sure it was a Pfretzschner either. Interesting..
Do you suppose that the label (added by the importer) could be a violin, viola or cello label?

Whatever the maker, I think I happened on to a good instrument, the luthier was enthusiastic about it. He said, "It'll be better than you, or me for that matter."

I would feel safer calling it a Wilfer (maybe made for Juzek, not sure). I understand you are new but even people playing 10, 20, 30 years still don't know this stuff about the makers and labels and the funny business. I don't know how it got the Label. Could be any reason listed including the Importer bought this or more basses from Germany and put the Pfretzschner lable in it because Juzek is a trade mark of Metropolitan Music (the Juzek family) and also because no one knew who Wilfer was then as his name was never marketed here. That's the key work here with the names, Marketing!

Some of these shop basses regardless of the label are very good basses indeed. Not necessarily professional orchestra quality but good for most other things professionally or otherwise.

Hey, I took one in on trade towards an Italian Bass, put almost 10k into the restoration and then sold it after a few concerts. It was good enough to buy(take in on trade), good enough to use in Orchestra and good enough to sell after all was said and done. The list of work done was huge but the results were worth every penny spent. I would do it again if the right Bass/deal came along. Actually, I just purchased an early 20th century French Bass not far off from the quality of an early Pfretzschner or Wilfer so that at least shows I practice what I preach, no?

Fix the Bass, play the Bass and enjoy the Bass. That's what I will suggest at this point.

[Mark Plummer]

Some of these shop basses regardless of the label are very good basses indeed. Not necessarily professional orchestra quality but good for most other things professionally or otherwise.
That's what the luthier said, good jazz bass, probably not a good orchestral bass. Fine by me. :)


Fix the Bass, play the Bass and enjoy the Bass. That's what I will suggest at this point.

That's the plan, the cost of gettng her up and playing is very reasonable, so i don't think I can go wrong. Thanks for your opinions and advise. I'll post the "after" pics.

[Ken Smith]

That's what the luthier said, good jazz bass, probably not a good orchestral bass. Fine by me. :)




That's the plan, the cost of gettng her up and playing is very reasonable, so i don't think I can go wrong. Thanks for your opinions and advise. I'll post the "after" pics.

Please post all the dimensions of the bass (in INCHES!). Then when the Top is off, have him measure all the graduations of both the Top and back thicknesses. I have the Morelli completely re-graduated and IT turned into a GREAT Orchestra Bass. You could use THAT Bass in the NY Philharmonic or any other professional top notch orchestra. If the wood is good and the model is good and the Bass is well repaired, it can be improved in most cases. I have lost count how many de-commissioned Basses I have brought back to life and everyone better than anyone in our lifetime (just about..) has seen or heard the particular Bass.

I am 100% FOR restoring good candidates. GOOD, is the key work there as some Basses can cost more in the end to fix than they are worth fully restored.

[Mark Plummer]

Measurements (in inches, I think I've measured it right)

Full Height - 71
Body Height - 43.5
Scale - 41.5 (per luthier)
Upper bout - 20
Lower bout - 25
Waist - 15.75 (at the bridge)
Rib depth - 8.25

[Ken Smith]

Measurements (in inches, I think I've measured it right)

Full Height - 71
Body Height - 43.5
Scale - 41.5 (per luthier)
Upper bout - 20
Lower bout - 25
Waist - 15.75 (at the bridge)
Rib depth - 8.25

Body measured from saddle to the Tip by the neck?
Ribs measured with or without the top and back? Should be rib material only!
Waist measurement should be measured across the narrowest part.
Width measurements should be measured across the Top and not the back using the widest at the upper and lower portions and most narrow in the center.
Basses with a wider waist will need a taller bridge to clear the center bout edges when Bowing. Basses with wider upper bouts will need a bigger neck stand to play over the shoulders in thumb position.

Either way, this is a regular modern 3/4 Bass. I will guess now that it might be a 'D' neck but you will have to string it up to be sure. Most earlier German Basses pre/post wwI had longer string lengths. It was not uncommon to see 43" s.l. on a 3/4 Bass and 44" on a 7/8 (4/4) model. As I guessed before even without the #s, these measurements indicate to me a post wwII Bass.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Yup, German shop bass. I'd guess between the two WW's. One thing that strikes me as especially nice is the carving work on the back of the scroll. Is the neck maple or beech?

Nice Score!

[Mark Plummer]

Is the neck maple or beech?
Nice Score!

Neck is Maple.

Went to the luthier today!!!!!:p

Now the waiting begins.....

[Mark Plummer]

Update!

Spoke with the Luthier today, top is off, ribs are repaired, ETA.


May


He's apparently swamped and I'm in no hurry, soooooo, he'll work on it as he gets time.

[Ken Smith]

Update!

Spoke with the Luthier today, top is off, ribs are repaired, ETA.


May


He's apparently swamped and I'm in no hurry, soooooo, he'll work on it as he gets time.


I know the feeling very well as far as being anxious as well as patient while you wait for a long restoration to be completed. The other thing is that until the Top comes off, you never know what you will find.

I have several Basses in restoration at the moment spread out between 3 Luthiers as well as several Basses waiting to be restored. Some of them are just to tighten up things a bit and re-do some of the old work. Others include full blown restorations that will each take a year or more to complete.

My Martini went in recently for a few things and after the Top came off several things were discovered that were not even on the menu. Actually, not even a hint of what was found inside. The good thing is that when the Bass is done, it will be in its best condition ever. The previous restorer was in a hurry to get the bass fixed up to sell. Now, much of that work has to be un-done and then re-done correctly.

My Loveri is also in restoration for almost a year now and hope to see that before long. That Bass as well had a few things hidden that could only be seen with the Bass opened. The Loveri Bass had the Back taken off as opposed to the Top of the Martini as well as the Neck out for a Graft.

Fun stuff looking inside old Basses.

[Mark Plummer]

Update!

Spoke with the Luthier today, top is off, ribs are repaired, ETA.


May


He's apparently swamped and I'm in no hurry, soooooo, he'll work on it as he gets time.

Well, May has come and gone and no progress, maybe next month... :(

[Ken Smith]

Well, May has come and gone and no progress, maybe next month... :(

Lol.. Welcome to the Club!

[Mark Plummer]

Well its been 18 months and still no bass. The shop has changed hands, work has been done, and the luthier now thinks he can have it to me by the middle of June.

Patience is a virtue, so I'm told.

[Joel Larsson]

Gee. I only ever had to wait 8 months for a bass. I do hope you have had something nice to play in the meantime!!

[Ken Smith]

Gee. I only ever had to wait 8 months for a bass. I do hope you have had something nice to play in the meantime!!

I just got a bass back after 5 years so what are you guys complaining about!

[Joel Larsson]

The possible lack of alternatives that makes you sort of depend on that bass you have there at the luthier's. You are a spoiled man bass-wise, Ken. :)

[Ken Smith]

The possible lack of alternatives that makes you sort of depend on that bass you have there at the luthier's. You are a spoiled man bass-wise, Ken. :)

Me, spoiled?

The Bass I played and owned for nearly 20 years now has Rogeri papers attached to it. Regardless of the name, it was a fantastic 'to die for' bass.

With all of the basses I now have which are mostly inventory (business), only a few of them were purchased for personal use. Although I do switch around a bit trying most of them out here and there, it's mostly for evaluation purposes.

Until a Bass is fully restored and broken in afterwards, I can't say if it's something that I will want to keep. With owning only one Bass (or two), that's usually not an option.

Anyway, I don't want to get off topic here but I do know what it's like to wait for a bass to come from restoration. On average I think that 6-12 months is normal for big restoration jobs. Some can easily take longer. The longer the Bass has been in dis-repair, the longer it might take to get the Bass all squared away.

So, anytime you can have a bass fully restored by a good bass Luthier in less than a year, you are doing just fine time wise..;)

[Joel Larsson]

Maybe that's so, and that I'm the lucky guy! Heh, that's a strange, unusual feeling. ;)
In both Sweden and Norway the more popular of the luthiers are drowning in work. I guess it's the same everywhere. Maybe that's a more lucrative market than that for simply playing..? :rolleyes:

[Mark Plummer]

Well, after a 21 month wait, it's done and in my grubby little hands.

Plays great, very clear punchy sound, not overly bassy or boomy, sweet jazzy sound.
Pics to follow.

[David McKinney]

How bout those pics?

[Vince Jesse]

So, who was this mysterious luthier that did such a great job for such a reasonable cost?

:)

[Mark Plummer]

Ummm that would be you Vince! Thanks for all the great work.