Jazz/Pizz String taste and choices...

[Ken Smith]

I want to bring up this subject of taste and choice as not everyone hears the Bass the same way for jazz much less plays the same Bass. Years ago when I played Jazz the main string was Spirocore. I do remember a few using Ropecore by Thomastic as well but these are now called Superflexible and I think they have a new formula.

When I started back playing a few years ago I was told to try Obligatos. They worked fine on my Batchelder Bass which I used for all styles of playing including Orchestra.

In the last few years I have tried a ton of strings so I will list them as best I can. Spiros, Superflexible, Animas 180 (the bowing ones), Varicore, Helicore orch, Flexocor, Orig Flexocor, Olivs, Oliv/Eudoxa mix, Oliv/Jaegar Forte mix, Orig Flat Chromes, Permanents, Flexocor/Perm mix, Jaegar Forte, Jaegar F/Eudoxa mix, Labella Gut/Gut wound, Labella Steel/orch 7720, Eurosonics and a bunch or proto-type test sets from both Labella and Eurosonic (JR music).

I have played other sets as well while trying other Basses but these I actually put on the Basses I owned. Also, some of the Basses I acquired had old versions of Flexocor and Eudoxa steel (orig Flatchrome).

For an older type Jazz sound I have found that the better the Bass, the more kinds of strings that sound good on it. Some other Basses are more picky and only work with one or two string types. Just yesterday I switched A and E strings between two Basses. On my Bollbach Lion I had orig Flexocors on it at first but were a few years old. I had a set of Jaegar Fortes in my cabinet unused/unopened for about 2 years. I put them on the Lion and it sounded better in minutes. Still sweet on the top but easier to play on the bottom. Then I thought about my Eudoxas on the Bisiach across the room. At first I was going to switch the two Basses and just change strings between them but was worried I could damage the Olivs or Eudoxas. Yesterday I took a chance and swapped just the A and E and both Basses sounded better after. The Bisiach had more growl with the Jaegar E than did the Lion and the Lion sounded better with the Eudoxa E than either the Jaegar or the Orig Flex.

Every Bass I string up must have some kind of Pizz quality. Recently I got my Batchelder back after it was in NY and Germany being shown. I have some other customers looking so I brought it home. The Obligatos were 5 years old and not sounding good at all. The Bass was not set-up like it was 3 years ago when I put it up for sale as people just messed with it. I did a quick set-up and put this slightly used set of Thomastic Superflexible/Rope cores on it. WOW, talk about agressive growl. I have been told they are not as lively as Spiros but on this Bass they sounded great. I had old Spiros on the Bass when I got it about 6 yeas ago or so. These sound much better to my ear for this Bass as far as that newer growly Jazz tone we've heard since about the '70s.

On my Gilkes I have liked either Orig Flat Chromes or Flexocors for an older Jazz tone. Actually, I use Flex Starks on most of my Basses and get a thicker deeper Jazz tone. My Loveri likes the reg Flex over the Starks as the heavier ones choke the top. Still, it has some zing on that deeper toned old Bass sound.

So, a lot depends on first, what you want to hear and second, what Bass you are stringing up. This is often an expensive learning process finding what works for both you and your Bass.

[Bob Branstetter]

I used Thomastic Spirocores for about 20 years. I discovered over the years that my skin or sweat was acidic enough that it caused the Thomastics to go "false" very quickly. Because of that, I was having to replace the string sets about every 3 months (I was playing 6 nights/wk). In 1996 I had the opportunity to meet Norman Pickering while attending a violin makers convention. Dr. Pickering is probably best remembered by us old guys for inventing the famous Pickering phonograph cartridge for turntables. He is also one of the World's foremost experts on violin family strings and wrote a book titled "The Bowed String" which many consider to be the bible of string books. He had been hired as a consultant by the D'Addario String Company to design a new line of violin family strings. When I told him that I was a jazz bassist, he was kind enough to ask me to be one of the beta testers for the their not yet released Hybrid bass strings. I loved them and have been using them ever since. Apparently they use a different type of metal for the string wrapping since I have not had any problem with these strings going "false". I don't care much for their pizzicato strings, but I've had good experience with both the Hybrids for jazz and the Orchestra strings for arco. The nice thing is that they are also somewhat cheaper than the Thomastics.

[Ken Smith]

I have had about 9 Basses to date with Helicore's orch. on then when the Basses came in. When I got in 6 Corsini Basses they all had Helicore strings. Some bowed well and some did not. Some Es were .105" and some .110. They were not consistant in size or sound and all were the Helicore Orchestra model from the same batch shipped to JR Music to put on their Basses.

I know that Basses vary but the string gauge should be consistent from set to set, no?

[Bob Branstetter]

I have had about 9 Basses to date with Helicore's orch. on then when the Basses came in. When I got in 6 Corsini Basses they all had Helicore strings. Some bowed well and some did not. Some Es were .105" and some .110. They were not consistant in size or sound and all were the Helicore Orchestra model from the same batch shipped to JR Music to put on their Basses.

I know that Basses vary but the string gauge should be consistent from set to set, no?
I don't doubt what you are saying Ken, but I have to say that I have not found this to be the case with the Helicore Hybrids or Orchestras that I've used and I've been using them since before the first ones hit the retail shelves in the mid 90's. I agree that .005" is too much variation for a string, but as far as bowing or sound is concerned, I find absolutely nothing unusual about 6 different (same model) basses from the same maker/factory sounding and playing/bowing differently with the same strings. I had that happen in my shop all the time when I was buying basses from other makers as well.

[added 1/30/07] I just noticed in another forum topic that one of the persons who bought one of Ken's Corsini basses thinks that was a Plus that the bass came supplied with Helicore Orchestra strings. This, of course, proves absolutely nothing other than different folks like different strings. If that wasn't true, there would be no market for all the different bass strings currently available.

[Paul Warburton]

[added 1/30/07] I just noticed in another forum topic that one of the persons who bought one of Ken's Corsini basses thinks that was a Plus that the bass came supplied with Helicore Orchestra strings. This, of course, proves absolutely nothing other than different folks like different strings. If that wasn't true, there would be no market for all the different bass strings currently available.

#1......Hi B!!!!!

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I've been using Spirocores since I began playing again and I'm sure I could have done much worse. After a brief (1 hour) fling with Helicore Hybrids I'm back to the Spirocores again on my Upton Hybrid bass. In the Helicore's defense, I bought them used and the A string was just WAY too bright. They may have been damaged along the way.:confused:
I'm going to give Obligatos a spin to see what they're like. The Spirocores just have that metalic sound, particularly the G up around the heel that bothers me. I'm looking for a more woody tone and hoping they do the trick. Then, if I like them, will they last?

Keeping an eye on that String G.A.S....lol:rolleyes:

[Marcus Johnson]

That "zing" up on the Spiro G is literally the only thing I don't like about them. It bugs me the most when I'm playing through the pickup. I'm now using the AMT mic for just about everything, so a lot of that is not a problem anymore. I'm really loving that mic right now! It's actually helping to delay my next string purchase, because my current Spiro set sounds so great.

Greg, I think you'll like the Obligatos. They are really hard to beat, given the price. On my bass, they are warmer and darker than Spiros, a little more diffused sounding. The growl is still there, but a little less ubergrowly than Spiros. Arco is lovely. I guess I got about a year out of my last set. The G string zing is less pronounced than Spiros. I never really got rid of the zing factor until I used Animas.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I've played on a G and D Obligato on my teacher's Rodier. The only thing I know for sure is that they feel nice. :)
The "zing" on the Spiro G is something I kept hoping would go away, but I've played the string for about 10 months. It's part of the package.

[Ken Smith]

I've played on a G and D Obligato on my teacher's Rodier. The only thing I know for sure is that they feel nice. :)
The "zing" on the Spiro G is something I kept hoping would go away, but I've played the string for about 10 months. It's part of the package.

Have any of you Spiro users tried the Superflexibles set or 'G' to fix any of the problems mentioned here with the brightness of the Spiros? I have a set now on my Batchelder and it is a tad less 'zingy' but still pleanty of growl. Kinda has more fundamental. I have used Spiros and Obligatos on that same Bass and for Jazz, these SFs seem right in the middle.

[Marcus Johnson]

I've played on a G and D Obligato on my teacher's Rodier. The only thing I know for sure is that they feel nice. :)


That's for sure. Kinda buttery, almost.

[Brian Glassman]

That "zing" up on the Spiro G is literally the only thing I don't like about them. It bugs me the most when I'm playing through the pickup. I'm now using the AMT mic for just about everything, so a lot of that is not a problem anymore. I'm really loving that mic right now! It's actually helping to delay my next string purchase, because my current Spiro set sounds so great.

Greg, I think you'll like the Obligatos. They are really hard to beat, given the price. On my bass, they are warmer and darker than Spiros, a little more diffused sounding. The growl is still there, but a little less ubergrowly than Spiros. Arco is lovely. I guess I got about a year out of my last set. The G string zing is less pronounced than Spiros. I never really got rid of the zing factor until I used Animas.

Lately I've been using Spiro Mittels on E, A and D, w/ a Superflexible G. I'm really enjoying this combo right now on my Prescott.
Less zing on the G, bows a bit better and still matches up really well w/ the Spiros and bright enough for this dark bass. Also the SF has a really pure tone on the open G. I liked it so much I tried switching to a SF D string as well. It was good for arco, but I felt it had too fat a diameter and was not such a great match next to the Spiro A. I went back to the Spiro D. I like strings on the fresh side and I play this bass alot, so I never have strings on longer than 7-8 months. I'm in that zone where they are just broken in nicely and are at optimum playability and sound :D.

On a related topic, I can't help thinking how w/ Weichs, a Mittel E is really more balanced to the set. So maybe it is also true that a Spiro Stark E would be a better match for a Mittel set.

Any comments?

BG

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

When I got my Upton Hybrid last fall it was strung with Spiro Mittels on their recommendation. The bass just sounded great to me and others who played it, but I had a Weich set on my other bass and they just FELT better to me so I swapped them. Night and day difference in playability.:D However, as most everything in life is a tradeoff, I gave up some volume and tone.
The Obligatos will either do the trick or maybe I'll try the SF or Corelli's or or or or or or or ??
Screw it, I'm going to practice.:D

[Phil Maneri]

On a related topic, I can't help thinking how w/ Weichs, a Mittel E is really more balanced to the set. So maybe it is also true that a Spiro Stark E would be a better match for a Mittel set.
I've done that and really loved it. Prefer it actually. The Stark E on my bass is huge and loud and thunderous pizz or bowed.

One of my favorite strings. I've used it in all kinds of combinations.

I'm not using it at the moment but I always seem to come back to it.

[Marcus Johnson]

Hah! I knew someone did that, I just forgot who. I bet you can shake the room with that setup once they're broken in.

[Michael Case]

Right now I'm using Oliv G&D with Obligato A&E. Before that I used a Spiro/Dominant combo that I liked very much. I have also used Full Spiro mitel and weich sets as well as Velvet Animas. Through all of my experiments I keep getting an itch to return to the Spirocores.

[Bob Branstetter]

I've played on a G and D Obligato on my teacher's Rodier. The only thing I know for sure is that they feel nice. :)
Interestinly, I played that same bass a couple of weeks ago and didn't like the D and G Obligatos as well as the Helicore Hybrids that were on it previously for either sound or feel. Different strokes for different folks!

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

It must have been tremendous with the Helicores, Bob. I played it Monday and am in awe of that bass. I'm amazed that a Conservative Semi-Retired Midwestern Luthier was able to tweak so much tone and playability out of a Kansas City bass. ;)
That bass is truly magnificent. Maybe in another 30 years it can go to another deserving player.

Actually, the G, D and A are Obligatos. The E/C is a SF. Thanks for reminding me to call him for the E to replace mine that is unraveling.

[Jim Barber]

This was posted on "another bass forum", it is a matrix of strings and different bass lines demonstrating types of pizzicato bass lines/styles. It is very interesting.

http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php

Jim

[Mike O'Malley]

Wow--that's an interesting link. And maybe what's most interesting to me is how much they all sound alike. I mean, I can hear differences, but for the most part they aren't all that vast

[Michael Case]

I guess I should update my string set-up. I had a brief disillusionment with the Oliv strings after my G started to unwind. I went back to my old set-up of Spiro Weichs on the bottom and Dominants up top. Problem is, after using Olivs no other G&D compare, the Doms sounded all twangy and too bright. So I coughed up the bread and replaced my Oliv G and put them back on the bass with the Spiro weich E&A. I'm really liking this set-up, Ive never been a big fan of Obligatos they're a little twangy to my ear. I recently read a report of Spiro middle E&A with Oliv G&D and now the wheels are turning. Man, I have Uncletoad syndrome. :eek: