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Anselm Hauke
03-29-2008, 10:45 AM
i found this http://cgi.ebay.it/Contrabbasso-italiano-dell800_W0QQitemZ300210124641QQihZ020QQcategoryZ62 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
bass, and then that
http://philipjkass.com/Guadanini_speech.htm
http://www.philipjkass.com/turinspeech.htm
articles, and think thats very interesting.
what do you think?

Edit:
i added the pic and the ebay text, to save it when the ad dissapears.
Text:" Vendo bellissimo Contrabbasso italiano scuola Pressenda: Leopold Noiriel (1789-1849), lunghezza del diapason cm 106,5, fondo bombato in pioppo come le fasce, in perfetto stato. "

Ken Smith
03-30-2008, 05:00 PM
This maker is listed as a French maker, not Italian. Even the first name is German I think.

The basses are even described as new. Who could have made them? Virtually the only basses known from Torino during these years were made by the Frenchman Leopold Noiriel, who was born in Mirecourt in 1789 and who moved to Turin shortly after his marriage in 1810. We lose track of him after 1835, and his death is unrecorded. He could have been the maker of these instruments. We can only speculate as to whether he was an employee of Guadagnini.

The prime instruments that were being made in the Lete-Pillement workshop were violin and guitar family instruments as well as chamber organs and serinettes. After Lete=s untimely death in 1819, his employees began to go out on their own. A number of Frenchmen turn up in the trade at this time. These included Nicolas Denis and his sons, makers of organs, serinettes and general music vendors; Francois Mulot, a maker of all sorts of instruments, Leopold Noiriel and Francois Calot, the last two makers of violins, basses, and guitars. The business did not close immediately but continued in the hands of his widow for at least another eight years. Their style and method of working would ultimately become the Turin style.

Neither Noiriel or this Pillement (Lete) are listed in Henley but do have only a slight mention in Jalovec. Thanks for posting this. I quoted the phrases mentioning Noiriel which took some reading to find. If this is true, I have learned something about the Turin region that I was before only barely aware of.

Anselm Hauke
03-31-2008, 11:56 AM
If this is true, I have learned something about the Turin region that I was before only barely aware of.

me too :)

Anselm Hauke
06-11-2009, 12:00 PM
is this the bass that is for sale at robertson&son for 180.000?
(iirc the "buy it now"-price was 18.000€...)

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm428/bassmonkey2/ISB%202009/ISB20096909045.jpg

Ken Smith
06-11-2009, 10:50 PM
is this the bass that is for sale at robertson&son for 180.000?
(iirc the "buy it now"-price was 18.000€...)

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm428/bassmonkey2/ISB%202009/ISB20096909045.jpg

That is the price. Apparently someone bought it and knew or rather thought it was worth a lot. It is probably fully restored now and that I am sure raised the price from a bass as-is to a Bass fully restored. My big Gamba Bass is pegged as the best bass at the show by most of the Orchestra Pros that have played and or heard it. maybe I should raise my price.. ?? There is also a Busan here at the show that doesn't hold a candle to my English Basses as well as a small attributed Maggini that has half the sound of my Candi. A Lott Bass is also on the floor that I know at a fairly low price with a sound to match. She just aint what she used to be.

If the Pedigree is there and proven, the price is there with it. If the sound is exceptional, the price is higher yet. I haven't played the Noiriel bass much yet past plucking a few strings. I will play it a bit with the bow tomorrow and give it a good look and listen.

Anselm Hauke
06-12-2009, 02:24 AM
I will play it a bit with the bow tomorrow and give it a good look and listen.

thanks, it would be nice to know how it sounds.


did you play the Hieronimus Amati at JD Hill?

Ken Smith
06-12-2009, 07:32 AM
thanks, it would be nice to know how it sounds.


did you play the Hieronimus Amati at JD Hill?

I will let you know about the sound BUT, are you sure this is the exact same Bass that was on Ebay? This one is a Gamba shaped bass, not Violin..

The 'acclaimed' Amati is not here. They decided not to bring it. However, I did play the Kousivitsky/Karr Bass and the ex-Tom Martin Maggini. Aside from historic values, I think I have better sounding basses.

Anselm Hauke
06-12-2009, 09:00 AM
I will let you know about the sound BUT, are you sure this is the exact same Bass that was on Ebay? This one is a Gamba shaped bass, not Violin..

i don´t know, all i´ve seen is the ebay-pic and the pricelist, so it seems not to be the same bass.

Anselm Hauke
06-12-2009, 10:57 AM
the ex-Tom Martin Maggini.

i visited him last year before the exposition in brescia, and he said something like (iirc): "i once owned 3 of the 6 basses that are shown there"...
:cool::cool::cool:

Abe Gumroyan
06-19-2009, 06:02 PM
did anyone play the "Stainer" bass ?.... a colleague of mine inquired about that instrument and was quoted 230K .... wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to much for a german bass if you ask me, I dont care HOW old it is. Where was this Busan located ?.... And as for that John Lott you spotted Ken was it at Andy Stetson's booth ?... He just acquired a John Lott and is selling it for 79,500 ... Pretty fair price for a Lott

Abe Gumroyan
06-19-2009, 06:06 PM
oh and those prices ............ let me sell my one of my organs to buy a bass ;)

Ken Smith
06-19-2009, 07:56 PM
did anyone play the "Stainer" bass ?.... a colleague of mine inquired about that instrument and was quoted 230K .... wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to much for a german bass if you ask me, I dont care HOW old it is. Where was this Busan located ?.... And as for that John Lott you spotted Ken was it at Andy Stetson's booth ?... He just acquired a John Lott and is selling it for 79,500 ... Pretty fair price for a Lott

The Stainer is NOT a Stainer. It is just what McKibbon called it. It is about 200 years old or so, maybe less. I heard a much lower price at the show from someone who asked. I know the bass and played it many years ago. I would say Austrian or Bohemian, not German and made a century or so after Stainer. It was set-up with solo strings last week when I saw it.

The Busan was at Reiley's booth just across from the Lott. The Lott is the same you mention and was once here in my shop as a possible trade-in. If you collected all 3 of those basses and played them beside my show basses, you might not like the tone vs. pedigree for what the price is on those as compared to mine. The Lott is priced fair but has been through hell and back with damage and repairs. I would have gladly taken it in on trade towards one of my basses 2 years ago when it was here but the deal never happened. My Martini puts out more sound as we did compare them side by side back then. The Busan I tried only in the booth but I didn't feel much in my 'gut' like you do when the bass has power. It does look like the real deal but it is a very small bass by comparison. A very sweet bass I would say but not something for a professional orchestra. More of a solo or chamber orchestra bass at most.