Thomastik Bel Canto Strings

[Mike Cox]

Does anybody have any info on the playability/sound of Thomastik Bel Canto Strings?

[Ken Smith]

Does anybody have any info on the playability/sound of Thomastik Bel Canto Strings?

I played these on a few Basses up at Arnolds and they were nice. Not as sweet as Flexocors on some Basses I have played but thicker sounding and better Bowing than any other string I have played from Thomastic which include a few of the Spirocore gauges and the Superflexibles.

Since they are in the same range price wise as the other Bowing strings, I would give them a shot if I haven't found my string yet.

Arnold seems to like them as do many others that have discussed it over on TB but the reviews were mixed as well. I think the Bass and the playing style has a lot to do with it as well not to mention the Bow you use and how well you use it!

[Nick Hart]

Belcanto's work the best on new basses. That is the consensus from a lot of people. They aren't as heavy a tension as many of the bowing strings and have a lot more spin to them, so on newer basses (such as mine) that really need caressing to be played, they sound great. Also there is virtually no break in time. These things are great right out of the package.

In the studio here, everybody with a new bass has them and the sound has improved 10 fold, because of the lighter tension and because of the ease of playability. The kids with older basses don't use them but a couple have use the E (which is a great string) and Mr. Laszlo just started using the E and A on his Ruggieri.

[Ken Smith]

How do they work on old Italian and English Basses from 100-300 years old? I doubt they would make a bowing string that doesn't work well on them.

In fact, lighter tensioned strings is just what is needed on many older and distressed Basses. It is usually the New Basses that need heavier strings to vibrate and break in the fresh wood.

[Nick Hart]

The problem with a lot of new basses is that they have a lot of wolfs and need consistent vibrations put on them in order to open up and create a good sound. If you have a very heavy string, with less spin, the vibrations aren't consistent.

I had Original Flexocores and a Heavy Helicore E and they just had no spin. The sound was very dead, but with the Belcantos, my bass sounds much better than it ever has.

Hey Ken, I'm pretty sure we can put some plastic strings on those 100-300 year old Italians and they will probably sound amazing.

One kid here has a old Italian attributed to Montagnana, and he has four different strings across the board. And Mr. Laszlo has 4 different strings on his Ruggieri. When you're in that situation, it's all about preference, and hopefully I'll be there some day.

[Charles Arms]

I am using them right now. I would compare the tone to Flexcor in terms of depth and color. However, they are easier to start and more supple under the left hand.

My bass is a new hybrid. It sounds better bowed than it ever has.

[JoeyNaeger]

A lot of people had their basses strung with these at TMEA. After playing on them some more, I think I will get a set. They have the fastest bow response of any string I've played, and have plenty of volume. You can't dump lots of arm weight into them like some other arco strings because they're so low tension, but I feel like its not necessary with these strings anyway.

[JoeyNaeger]

I just put a set on my bass finally, and am very pleased. The G and the D are basically perfect. I wish the A and the E were stiffer but I seem to have this problem with every set I try so perhaps it's more of a setup issue. I was worried they would be too dark, but on my bass they have plenty of color while still being very warm.

[Eric Swanson]

I have had BC's on my bass since Christmas. So far:

- Easy under the stick
- Take less arm weight than I am used to...they work better with a lighter touch
- While better than anything else I have tried except Flexocor's for arco, they lack some of the Flexo's punch, on my bass. Not worse, just a little different.
- Even across all strings
- No "choking out" when I put more arm weight/less speed on the bow and play down near the bridge...a nice, piercing sound there, when playing in TP, on all four strings (yes, even the E).
- Consistent sound from the bottom note to the top of TP
- I like the pizz sound/feel. They don't have the fretless EB thing going like Spiro Weichs can (endless sustain without effort), but they growl plenty for me. A clear, warm pizz sound, to my ear.
- Soft under the hands, supple feeling, a nicely polished surface
- A little "floppy" but not troublesome...no rolling or anything like that
- Hold their tuning really well. Virtually no stretching after the first day or two.

I like them way better than Obligatos, Helicores, Corelli's, Spiro Weich, or Thomastik Superflexibles for arco, hand's down. Not as much as Flexo for projection and edge, but they are nice in their own way.

Haven't tried the Evah Pirazzi's, Eurosonic's, or Permanents, so can't compare to those.

[Katie Long]

It seems that almost everyone over in London is switching to BC's so I'm waiting for my set now. They've got a really good reputation over here so I'm going to give them a try on my bass. Other than that I quite like the sound of the evah pirazzis that lots of people are hyping at the mo. I'll let you know what I think when I eventually get them.

[Calvin Marks]

I completely agree with Ken in terms of "what bow you use." If you don't have the most refined bow technique and you play with a heavier bow these strings will most likely roll on you. It takes a lot of patience to get these strings to work well, but when they do they sound amazing. I love every one of the strings except the E is a bit too low in tension in my opinion. My A used to roll a lot but that had to more so do with getting used to relaxing my bow arm with my new orchestral bow. Definitely try them, they are really loud and sound very warm.

[Brian Casey]

I just put a set on my 7/8 Christopher 401 Monday night and the transformation was amazing. Orchestra rehearsal Tuesday and I left happier with my personal performance than I have in a long time, probably a combination of the BC's and the Oak rosin I received on Monday as well. I had been playing 3 year old Helicores, so anything was an improvement, but I think the BC's will be my string for awhile. Yes, a little soft, but they're still solid feeling, and I'm learning to finesse them better every day.

I was most surprised by the pizz sound, which I was really enamored with. I'm now considering leaving the Pfretschner home on some upcoming jazz gig when I know I'll have plenty of room and try to big Chrissie on a night of pizz. I'll always go back to the Pfrestschner with Olivs and Spiros, but the BC's have revitalized my feelings about the Christopher. I can see some validity to the comments about BC's working best on newer basses, but can't address which ones really do better under more or less tension.

Also, my luthier, who I bought the strings from, mentioned that you can tune the BC's up to solo pitch without problems. He said he's done it himself a couple times. Anybody else hear anything like this?


Brian Casey / Tanglehead

www.myspace.com.tangle_head (http://www.myspace.com.tangle_head)

[Richard Prowse]

Take one old set of Weichs and trash them to death. Hey, these strings last forever. (Imagine a green smiley guy here)
I've just replaced my trusty set of Weichs with Bel Cantos. I bow a lot, but have to do pizz gigs too. Weichs have been kind to me... kind of like a Fender Bass (no offence Ken; I hear that your basses are miles better, but a Fender always gets the job done!) (Imagine the little face guy three rows down on the right here).
At first I noticed how similar the BCs and the Weichs were... the D & G are slightly stiffer and the E & A slightly floppier. The pizz quality is down a bit, but the arco quality is a step up! Ah, they bow well! (now imagine the white face on the left, second row down) Bow articulation is actually similar to the Weichs, on my bass, but the sound is a little darker. These strings are good! I think we'll be friends for a long while.

[Eric Swanson]

I am checking out a prototype set of Belcanto Solo. Had them on for about a week, tuned at EADG (orchestra). So far, G and D are brighter than regular BC's, A seems a little flat, and E is way too loose/quiet.

The low tension is sweet and the jazz pizz sustain is better than regular BC's. Probably going to tinker with regular BC A and E over the next few days.

I'll report back. You can get them from Thomastik-Infeld if you email them. The only "cost" is that I have to fill out a questionnaire when I am done mulling it all over.

I am hoping that they will eventually expand the line to offer Weich, Stark, and Solo. Time will tell all...

[Richard Prowse]

I've had my Bel Cantos on for a while now and I'm really happy with them. The bow sound is very good. The pizz sound has a strong bottom and I like it, though it was harder to play pizz at first... probably still is, but I really like the sound. Problem is, though, I've got this buzz in my peg box whenever I play (imagine bass guitar frets) 9th on G, 14th on D and 21st on G. Ive checked that the screws on the machine heads are tight and that the strings are securely wound. I'd really welcome any ideas on what the cause might be. When I had the Weichs on, I sometimes seemed to get a buzz on 2nd on G and 14th on G (A).

[Eric Swanson]

The prototypical set of Belcanto Solos I have been trying, tuned at orchestra pitch (EADG), are too loose for my bass, arco. Put back on the regular BC's, over the past couple of weeks.

For jazz pizz, they were sweet; like a warmer Spiro Weich. They just didn't drive the bass enough under the bow.

Oh well. I am glad that I tried them.

They were made for a whole step higher, so not a huge surprise.

Still looking for a brighter G string, so maybe I'll see how a Superflexible or Permanent G works with the Belcanto D, A, and E...

[Abe Gumroyan]

everyone in the LA Phil bass section is using Bel Canto. My teacher, oscar meza, was a long time original flexocor user. He switched over and hasn't looked back since. I heard his bass before and after the switch and hear much more nuance and depth of color. That seems to be the consensus among the entire section. The instruments in the section help a bit also .... Panormo, Gagliano, Carletti, & Fendt :D ... And that's just 4 of the instruments ... Drooool LOL

[Richard Prowse]

I've just put my Bel Canto strings back on The Gloria. They're a shade darker than the Weichs and a shade softer for pizz (the Weich pizz is better).

[Joel Larsson]

I had them on for two weeks now. It's the best set seen as a whole I've ever tried; I usually have to combine strings from different sets to make things work. At last I got A and E strings which rumble! I usually have to use gut core strings on my bass to get this sound. Flats and Flexes seem to choke the lower regions of my bass. The sound is extremely even all over the bass, and the volume is quite loud. For solo playing, I can feel that they lack some of the brilliance up high that a good solo string can provide, but it still responds well (and who cares about solo playing anyway). Pizz I found was very neutral. No annoying "mmmMMWAAAH" that can be embarrassing in a section.
Oh, and my bass is 27 years old. Maybe the age theory presented by Nick isn't out of place.

[Richard Prowse]

I had them on for two weeks now. It's the best set seen as a whole I've ever tried; I usually have to combine strings from different sets to make things work. At last I got A and E strings which rumble! I usually have to use gut core strings on my bass to get this sound. Flats and Flexes seem to choke the lower regions of my bass. The sound is extremely even all over the bass, and the volume is quite loud. For solo playing, I can feel that they lack some of the brilliance up high that a good solo string can provide, but it still responds well (and who cares about solo playing anyway). Pizz I found was very neutral. No annoying "mmmMMWAAAH" that can be embarrassing in a section.
Oh, and my bass is 27 years old. Maybe the age theory presented by Nick isn't out of place.
I played at a folk club tonight (see the Down here (NZ) thread).
I waited a long time for my turn to play and was a bit tired when I played - I think that I leaned into the Bel Canti a bit too much, but my brother, who was at the back of the small hall when I played a solo bass piece, said that the sound back there was great! I think that, when I learn not to bow them too hard, they will really come up with the goods. Their pizz sound sounded good tonight too!

[Joel Larsson]

But you're a tough guy, Richard. We all know, and don't want you to compromise that! Can't you just do a Gary Karr and move nearer to the bridge? I did also notice that they were a bit sensitive to bow placement/speed/pressure - and especially to how straight you keep your bow when playing! They were like always having a teacher with you telling you when you aren't playing as you ought to. Kinda liked that. Now I had to take them off and put on my Perm solos, thanks to an exam coming up, and it's the first time that putting on a solo set hasn't seemed like major facelift. I want my Bels back!

I forgot to mention that they sound great EVERYWHERE on the FB; even the A and E strings sounds good in thumb position. Maybe they're a treat for all you Boardwalkin' guys. :)

[Anselm Hauke]

I did also notice that they were a bit sensitive to bow placement/speed/pressure - and especially to how straight you keep your bow when playing! They were like always having a teacher with you telling you when you aren't playing as you ought to. Kinda liked that.

don´t want to derail this thead, but thats what bowing plain guts did for me - if you can bow them right(bow placement/bowing angle/speed/pressure) , you can bow everything (imho, ymmv) (richard, sorry for the abbreviations; i mean abbr.; at least i did not use any smilies)(until now::))

[Richard Prowse]

don´t want to derail this thead, but thats what bowing plain guts did for me - if you can bow them right(bow placement/bowing angle/speed/pressure) , you can bow everything (imho, ymmv) (richard, sorry for the abbreviations; i mean abbr.; at least i did not use any smilies)(until now::))
What does 'ymmv' stand for? I hope you didn't just make that one up!
I hear you, Anslem M. Hawkeye - my plan this morning (I have two more days off before I go back to work) is to really examine my bowing.
Oh, and here's one of those silly abbreviations for you...
NCMF.
(Nice chatting, my friend.)
BTW (by the way) E. Joel, I don't really buy into the idea that playing everything by the bridge is the 'be all end all' - I think I prefer that Rabath guy's approach. WDYT?
(What do you think?)

[Joel Larsson]

My problem, dear Anselm, is that the Bels are a little bit more forgiving than plain gut. I'm not good enough for those yet! And then there is that solo playing problem again...

Richard, I don't like playing everything near the bridge either. Rabbath does have one nifty bowing technique. He can open up his instrument like few other. Do you have his DVDs?
(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)
Myself, I don't have anywhere near his control over my instrument, in any department (and I don't have that kind of money either - I mean, come on, if I had gold strings I'd sound good too!!) so I'll just stick to whatever will make me sound better in the long run. Hopefuly.
Saw him (Rabbath) a few weeks ago down in Germany, and despite being 78 years old, he plays like crazy! One remarkable man and musician, that one.

[Richard Prowse]

My problem, dear Anselm, is that the Bels are a little bit more forgiving than plain gut. I'm not good enough for those yet! And then there is that solo playing problem again...

Richard, I don't like playing everything near the bridge either. Rabbath does have one nifty bowing technique. He can open up his instrument like few other. Do you have his DVDs?
(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)
Myself, I don't have anywhere near his control over my instrument, in any department (and I don't have that kind of money either - I mean, come on, if I had gold strings I'd sound good too!!) so I'll just stick to whatever will make me sound better in the long run. Hopefuly.
Saw him (Rabbath) a few weeks ago down in Germany, and despite being 78 years old, he plays like crazy! One remarkable man and musician, that one.
No, I don't have the DVDs, but watched him on Youtube demonstrating bowing. I'll have to pass on the gold spun strings too. I suspect that good bowing technique makes vastly more difference than some fancy pants string - I'm sure that Rabbath could bow Weichs!

[Joel Larsson]

Yes he can. He made a bit of a point of showing us students how good our instruments could sound if played properly. :(

[Richard Prowse]

I like the cut of this guy's cloth! (old English retort)

[Richard Prowse]

Ah, i bel canti are feeling so good! I've worked on my bowing lately.
Io amo i bel canti!

[Ken Smith]

I have them on my Gilkes(Jilkes) and Martini now. For the Martini, I pulled them off the Hart and switched for the 92s Flex's that were on the bass.

The Extension E/C Belcanto string is a heavier and tighter gauge than the regular E-string. This makes a huge difference.

I put on a new set at the ISB during the show one day and the difference between them and the Flexocor 92s was amazing. The Gilkes has never sounded so full and deep as it does now. The Flexocors are more colorful but less round in the sound. My Martini is a more colorful bass 'period' and the color still shines thru with the Bel's on it so it's not just the String. The Martini is sweet either way.

[Richard Prowse]

How do you find they respond to rapid bowing - like a quick semiquaver (sorry, 16 note) run?

[Ken Smith]

How do you find they respond to rapid bowing - like a quick semiquaver (sorry, 16 note) run?

Ok, 16ths at what quarter note tempo?

I have no problem playing these fast or any other strings for the most part as long as they are on a good bass with a good set-up.

How would a string brand stay on the market of they could only be played slow?

I have a fairly light touch with the bow and can play quite fast as long as my left hand can keep up with my right/bow hand. Fast for me is not a problem bowing. Fingering is the problem. Try doing all the major works of Mozart and Beethoven playing the fast stuff. That's meat and potatoes for a good workout..

[Richard Prowse]

Ok, 16ths at what quarter note tempo?

I have no problem playing these fast or any other strings for the most part as long as they are on a good bass with a good set-up.

How would a string brand stay on the market of they could only be played slow?

I have a fairly light touch with the bow and can play quite fast as long as my left hand can keep up with my right/bow hand. Fast for me is not a problem bowing. Fingering is the problem. Try doing all the major works of Mozart and Beethoven playing the fast stuff. That's meat and potatoes for a good workout..
I was talking about the string response to quick notes, not the ability to play them. Sometimes I wonder if these Bel Canti get a bit scratchy when playing lots of quick notes - almost like they are moving slowly. It was a fair question. Frankly, I didn't expect The Spanish Inquisition.

[Calvin Marks]

I was talking about the string response to quick notes, not the ability to play them. Sometimes I wonder if these Bel Canti get a bit scratchy when playing lots of quick notes - almost like they are moving slowly. It was a fair question. Frankly, I didn't expect The Spanish Inquisition.

I didn't find them scratchy under the bow when playing fast. They're not at all like Thomastik's other strings (Dominant and Spirocore). They have a very smooth, round tone that's deep and "buttery".

[Calvin Marks]

My problem, dear Anselm, is that the Bels are a little bit more forgiving than plain gut. I'm not good enough for those yet! And then there is that solo playing problem again...

Richard, I don't like playing everything near the bridge either. Rabbath does have one nifty bowing technique. He can open up his instrument like few other. Do you have his DVDs?
(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)
Myself, I don't have anywhere near his control over my instrument, in any department (and I don't have that kind of money either - I mean, come on, if I had gold strings I'd sound good too!!) so I'll just stick to whatever will make me sound better in the long run. Hopefuly.
Saw him (Rabbath) a few weeks ago down in Germany, and despite being 78 years old, he plays like crazy! One remarkable man and musician, that one.

On his DVD he says he never uses solo strings because "it makes things easier", yet the Corelli mediums are basically a solo string in gauge and tension. The new Sonores he uses are solo strings tuned down to orchestral pitch...

[Joel Larsson]

I suppose he means that he never plays in solo TUNING. As for his Sonores, I was there when he got a new set of gold-wounds from Arnold Genssler in March. These are custom made for his needs and even if you could theoretically tune them up one note, I strongly doubt that they were produced with the aim to be tuned up. Genssler works very hard to reduce tension, and with the thin gauge I suspect that Rababth uses, solo player as he is, I suppose that means that the specifications may make it seem like a tuned down solo set.

[Richard Prowse]

I didn't find them scratchy under the bow when playing fast. They're not at all like Thomastik's other strings (Dominant and Spirocore). They have a very smooth, round tone that's deep and "buttery".
Yes, they're smoother than the Weichs, with a lovely dark bottom end; but, in my humble opinion (I wish there was an abbreviation for that phrase), remember that I'd never heard of the Petracchi technique, not dissimilar.

[Calvin Marks]

I suppose he means that he never plays in solo TUNING. As for his Sonores, I was there when he got a new set of gold-wounds from Arnold Genssler in March. These are custom made for his needs and even if you could theoretically tune them up one note, I strongly doubt that they were produced with the aim to be tuned up. Genssler works very hard to reduce tension, and with the thin gauge I suspect that Rababth uses, solo player as he is, I suppose that means that the specifications may make it seem like a tuned down solo set.

I hear ya. I actually asked Gennsler (sp!?) via e-mail about those strings and he mentioned a few "big name" players that use them. He specifically said that Francois' strings are his solo model used at orchestral pitch.

[Joel Larsson]

Ah. Makes total sense, then. :)
Yes, Genssler's strings are 'the thing', it seems. Makes me look for a cheap and easy way to get to Berlin...

Anyways, on the topic, I've been wondering about the Bel G. It seems to have a bit rougher structure than the other strings, and has worn more on the fingerboard. It sounds great and all, but has anyone else noticed anything like this, or have I played a defect string all this time?? :eek:

[Brian Ross]

(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)


Just a little info on those Genssler strings... while very far from cheap, the Genssler strings Rabbath uses are far from $2000 - 449 euros, or about USD 645. They're not a specially made model for Francois - they're a standard set that he makes called RED MORGANTE, which Genssler says are the best metal hybrid arco/pizz strings he makes.

[Ken Smith]

Just a little info on those Genssler strings... while very far from cheap, the Genssler strings Rabbath uses are far from $2000 - 449 euros, or about USD 645. They're not a specially made model for Francois - they're a standard set that he makes called RED MORGANTE, which Genssler says are the best metal hybrid arco/pizz strings he makes.

This is a Thread about Belcantos.. ok? If you wanna change the subject, make a new thread. I can easily move some things here over there or better yet, maybe I will just do it later when I find the time..

[Brian Ross]

This is a Thread about Belcantos.. ok? If you wanna change the subject, make a new thread. I can easily move some things here over there or better yet, maybe I will just do it later when I find the time..


Sorry. Just wanted to clear up the misinformation in this thread.

[Ken Smith]

I have them on my Gilkes(Jilkes) and Martini now. For the Martini, I pulled them off the Hart and switched for the 92s Flex's that were on the bass.

The Extension E/C Belcanto string is a heavier and tighter gauge than the regular E-string. This makes a huge difference.

I put on a new set at the ISB during the show one day and the difference between them and the Flexocor 92s was amazing. The Gilkes has never sounded so full and deep as it does now. The Flexocors are more colorful but less round in the sound. My Martini is a more colorful bass 'period' and the color still shines thru with the Bel's on it so it's not just the String. The Martini is sweet either way.

Getting back to Belcantos here, shortly after putting the Bel's on my Martini from the Hart and putting some new Evah's on the Hart, I decided that I preferred the sound of the Bel's on the Hart over 92s and Evah's so.. I switched strings once again on these and put the Evah's on the martini and the Bel's back on the Hart. The Hart sounds great now and the martini although not as smooth as it was with Bel's still sounds great with the EV Weichs on it.

IF, I have to choose only one string for every bass, I would be in big trouble. Bel's work best on many basses but not all. Sometimes the grittier bite of a Flexocor or Orig. FlatChrome is just what the doctor ordered...

[Calvin Marks]

Getting back to Belcantos here, shortly after putting the Bel's on my Martini from the Hart and putting some new Evah's on the Hart, I decided that I preferred the sound of the Bel's on the Hart over 92s and Evah's so.. I switched strings once again on these and put the Evah's on the martini and the Bel's back on the Hart. The Hart sounds great now and the martini although not as smooth as it was with Bel's still sounds great with the EV Weichs on it.

IF, I have to choose only one string for every bass, I would be in big trouble. Bel's work best on many basses but not all. Sometimes the grittier bite of a Flexocor or Orig. FlatChrome is just what the doctor ordered...

Belcanto is a very nice string indeed. It has quite a robust sound for a fairly low tension string and the pizz sound is very nice. They're better strings than Evah's IMO because the Evah's are so high tension and large in gauge that it makes playing a chore.

I've also heard that the Bel Ext C is the best out there.

[Richard Prowse]

I'm in total agreement Calvin.
My Bel Canto strings have been on my main bass (I only have two) for most of this year and will be staying put. They've settled down nicely - both for arco and pizz. The whole range sounds great. They're a joy to play.

[Richard Prowse]

I love Bel Canto strings.

[Scott Pope]

Well, here goes: the Bels GDA with the Spiro 3885.5W E have been perfect for my jazz & dance band gigs the last few months playing mostly standards. Now, for something completely different: I'm playing a cross-over country/rock/rockabilly gig this weekend. Last year I played this gig with Spiro Weichs, and of course, with so much sustain and growl that Spiros are known for, I could make them do what I needed to. The Bels, of course, are rounder and darker in tone. We'll see....

[Scott Pope]

Well, a little preamp gain and touch of compression can go a long way to make a gig work. Although it probably sounded fine out front, I was not happy with the darkness of the Bels for this particular gig, which comes as no surprise as they are really not meant for this kind of gig. But the bandleader liked it, and with strings being expensive, I'm not sure I'm in a position right now to have different string sets for different gigs.

Great experience, however.

[Ken Smith]

Well, a little preamp gain and touch of compression can go a long way to make a gig work. Although it probably sounded fine out front, I was not happy with the darkness of the Bels for this particular gig, which comes as no surprise as they are really not meant for this kind of gig. But the bandleader liked it, and with strings being expensive, I'm not sure I'm in a position right now to have different string sets for different gigs.

Great experience, however.

I am curious. If you are doing mainly Pizz type jazz/pop playing, why not just use Spiro reds? They pizz better, more clear and cost less? The Belcantos were designed for Orchestra bowing so every problem you have in Pizz playing is because they focused on the opposite, bowing!

Most basses do not do both orchestra bowing and jazz pizz equally well with the same set of strings on the same bass. If Bowing is your goal, Bel's are a good choice for some depending on the bass, tone and style you play. If it is jazz you are looking to do, I would not suggest these strings for most players for the reasons mentioned.

[Richard Prowse]

I am curious. If you are doing mainly Pizz type jazz/pop playing, why not just use Spiro reds? They pizz better, more clear and cost less? The Belcantos were designed for Orchestra bowing so every problem you have in Pizz playing is because they focused on the opposite, bowing!

Most basses do not do both orchestra bowing and jazz pizz equally well with the same set of strings on the same bass. If Bowing is your goal, Bel's are a good choice for some depending on the bass, tone and style you play. If it is jazz you are looking to do, I would not suggest these strings for most players for the reasons mentioned.
I agree, they're too loose for pizz playing. The EP weichs have a good jazz sound but are a bit slow under the bow.

[Scott Pope]

I am curious. If you are doing mainly Pizz type jazz/pop playing, why not just use Spiro reds? They pizz better, more clear and cost less? The Belcantos were designed for Orchestra bowing so every problem you have in Pizz playing is because they focused on the opposite, bowing!

Most basses do not do both orchestra bowing and jazz pizz equally well with the same set of strings on the same bass. If Bowing is your goal, Bel's are a good choice for some depending on the bass, tone and style you play. If it is jazz you are looking to do, I would not suggest these strings for most players for the reasons mentioned.

I got the Bels for three reasons: I wanted a dark pizz tone to try, by reputation these are the easiest strings for arco out there, and I got them slightly used really inexpensively by comparison to their new list price. Well, despite my best efforts and ongoing consultations with and help from my friends who teach, arco is probably just not going to happen, in spite of all the work I've put into it. I am left handed, but I have always played musical instruments conventionally right handed. So the same reason I'm not having much luck developing a good arco technique is the same reason I do not play 5-string banjo or play fingerpick style guitar: the right hand faculty just is not there beyond traditional index & middle jazz pizz technique, although from mashing valves since 5th grade my right hand works well for tuba. Worse, my right hand cramps, irrespective of French or German bow, or any reasonable adaptation of grip on either that my friends have had me try. These are my limitations as a player, and I came to terms with that some time ago.

Now, for these "standards" jazz/dance band gigs I've been playing, the band leaders have really enjoyed the tone and the flavor of pizz the Bels produce. I like the feel of the strings and the relatively even tension across the board.

Richard: yes, they are a little lighter than Spiro Mittels, but for the same reasons that I had to have a custom fanned-fret electric bass made, so I could keep playing in spite of old injuries cropping up and causing me grief, I won't be using any strings that are any firmer, including Spiro Mitts, and yes, I've also had my bass looked over for setup, as we all know that a good setup will do more for ease of playing than any set of light tension strings. I think you'd agree it's hard to get any more "playable" than the tension of the Bels, on an even shorter 40.5 mensure, (false nutted down an inch - and if you saw my left pinky you'd know why) with string heights at the end of the fingerboard of 4-5-6-7 mm on G-D-A-E respectively, with no buzzing at all anywhere, and even then, at the end of a 3-hour gig, I've still been known to soak my hands in ice water, and, well, we're not even going to discuss my wedding ring over my knuckle. Even at that, I know I could get some Velvet Blues, or a set of any of the different models of solo gauge strings and tune them down to get even less tension, but then they wouldn't drive my top sufficiently for tone and stability. For now, as long as I can deal with them, the Bels are, for me, a good balance of heavy enough tension to drive my top but light enough I can actually play them all night. Every body else's mileage will vary.

If I play other gigs of the sort I did Saturday, I do have Jazzers in reserve, also purchased slightly used at a great price, that I will change into going forward. But for only two or three gigs per year of what I did Saturday, in an informal setting, I'm not too concerned.

The bottom line (pun intended) is that on my particular bass the S42 Weich Spiros I had initially were so growly on my bass they almost sounded like Rotosound Swingbass electric bass strings by comparison. Ironically, for that very reason they were a great transition, tonally, from playing electric bass in these bands until I purchased my double bass a few years ago and got up to speed with it.

Now, my band leaders really like what I'm doing with the Bels, and my opportunities for gigs have expanded. So as long as the guys who hire me like them, they're staying on. If they start getting too dark, or if I get asked to play with a different tone, or if my playing takes a different turn as to the balance of kinds of gigs I play, then I'll try something else. In the meantime, as my avocation, not my vocation, I'm having a great time with them and making enough on the side as a "weekend warrior" to be really fun and worth my while: I like them, my band leaders like them, our audiences like them. I get asked to play again: what more could a guy in my position ask for?!

If arco had worked out for me, we'd be having a completely different discussion, of course. And I did change out the Bel E for a Spiro 3/4 3885.5W E for the very reasons mentioned: the arco tone on the Bel E was great, but the pizz was just too dark, and I changed it out as soon as it became apparent that my arco was not going to get appreciably better, and sold it down the line to the next guy working on arco.

[Richard Prowse]

All good Scott, stay with the BCs. Hey, they worked fine for me in a gypsy jazz band a few years back.
I'm just a little worried about your lefthandedness and giving up bowing.
I too am left handed, but play the traditional way - I started playing violin around 1960 and people just didn't consider switching an instrument around back then. Though, I do suspect that I am slightly ambidexterous.
Look, my head is presently full of man-cold and I'm probably not thinking my best but getting on top of the bass bow takes a long time. Even after having been brought up on the violin, I remember bowing the bass for many years before I started to feel that I could really bow.
My advice - just do a little bowing each day, say 10 minutes, as you start your practice. Just bow long notes and listen for a nice sound and try to enjoy that sound.
I know Ken will disagree but, if you have hand problems, go German. Back off on the pressure - pull and push.
Cheers yankee mate.

[Scott Pope]

I know Ken will disagree but, if you have hand problems, go German. Back off on the pressure - pull and push.
Cheers yankee mate.
That causes the inside of the fleshy part between my thumb and index finger to cramp. French causes the outside to cramp. No, for me, the ergonomics of arco just aren't there. I do appreciate the thought.

-- And BTW: after I got done posting last night, I got a phone call with a referral from our band's keyboard player, who is actually more of a bass player, to another gig, but who referred me instead of taking the gig himself because he believes I can read the gig better than he could. So life is good.

[Ken Smith]

That causes the inside of the fleshy part between my thumb and index finger to cramp. French causes the outside to cramp. No, for me, the ergonomics of arco just aren't there. I do appreciate the thought.

-- And BTW: after I got done posting last night, I got a phone call with a referral from our band's keyboard player, who is actually more of a bass player, to another gig, but who referred me instead of taking the gig himself because he believes I can read the gig better than he could. So life is good.

Ok, but don't give up on bowing. Get a good teacher and study the Bow properly. Bowing practice will take you to new places. The pain is worth the gain. Bad technique will cause cramps in minutes or even seconds. Bowing will strengthen even your left hand playing. That is a fact.

[Scott Pope]

Ok, but don't give up on bowing. Get a good teacher and study the Bow properly. Bowing practice will take you to new places. The pain is worth the gain. Bad technique will cause cramps in minutes or even seconds. Bowing will strengthen even your left hand playing. That is a fact.
Respectfully, Ken, after talking to my physician, and taking Tylenol and ice packs at the limit (I can't take anything else like ibuprofin due to a genetic clotting disorder), the pain is not worth the gain. After all the other injuries over the years, it makes it worse, not better. I wish it were different. But it's not. The guy who works with me, who I've known since we were 14 in band camp together, has taught for decades and is a bass player himself, not just a general strings teacher. The guy who reviewed my setup is a bass guy also, not just a general strings repairman, and has passed on my setup. Both have played my bass.

Oh, well, I've carried on too long. For what I am doing right now, the Bels are great. Thanks for everybody's help and encouragement. It's time for someone else to take a turn talking about them.

[Josh Holdridge]

Hello,

Can someone please explain what was said in an early post about 'string spin'?
I'm not familiar with this metric and I'm interested since I have a new bass.

To avoid appearance of taking this thread off topic, I'll put in my .02c about bel cantos. I have Flexo 92's on my bass (less than 1yr old) and was reasonably satisfied but not totally. I wanted something darker and warmer, bassically I'm impatient for it to sound old!

Put the BC's on there and immediately liked the deeper, thuddier sound of pizz. A little more gut-like sound, and lower tension than the Flexocors; buttery sound in some of the higher notes.
The jury is still out on the bowing. I'm going to try them in a few rehearsals and see how it goes. I have noticed that some notes seem easier to start but will have to see how they do on vigorous spicatto passages. The tone isn't too different from the 92's, my basses character seems to override the string difference a little bit, but they do have a bit less of an 'edge', which is ok with me.
I seemed to be getting a lot of scratchiness with the 92's though admittedly my technique has a long way to go. But if there is something about the BC's that is better for breaking in a new instrument, then I'd probably keep them on for a while.

[Bin Hire]

One thing I have noticed about strings is that the famous players seem to stick with one type. Apologies if I'm wrong with this statement. I know this was true of NHOP and, I think, Ray Brown. Gary Karr seems to stay with the same strings too? Have they found the perfect string for their purpose? I suppose they have. I have a friend who is a trumpet player and he seems to be constantly trying mouthpieces. I suspect that all these modern 'super strings' are very good. Maybe we just need to stick with one set for a few years and look at our technique. Apologies, I don't mean to be critical, but I think I have a tendency personally to blame the tools when it is the workman (in my case). Just a thought I had.

[Ken Smith]

Hello,

Can someone please explain what was said in an early post about 'string spin'?
I'm not familiar with this metric and I'm interested since I have a new bass.

To avoid appearance of taking this thread off topic, I'll put in my .02c about bel cantos. I have Flexo 92's on my bass (less than 1yr old) and was reasonably satisfied but not totally. I wanted something darker and warmer, bassically I'm impatient for it to sound old!

Put the BC's on there and immediately liked the deeper, thuddier sound of pizz. A little more gut-like sound, and lower tension than the Flexocors; buttery sound in some of the higher notes.
The jury is still out on the bowing. I'm going to try them in a few rehearsals and see how it goes. I have noticed that some notes seem easier to start but will have to see how they do on vigorous spicatto passages. The tone isn't too different from the 92's, my basses character seems to override the string difference a little bit, but they do have a bit less of an 'edge', which is ok with me.
I seemed to be getting a lot of scratchiness with the 92's though admittedly my technique has a long way to go. But if there is something about the BC's that is better for breaking in a new instrument, then I'd probably keep them on for a while.

What bass are you referring to? Your profile is kind of vague.

[Josh Holdridge]

Hi Ken,

The bass I'm referring to is a new Thomas & George Martin 4/4. I guess I was trying to be a little vague to keep certain info on the down low.

[Bunny Hoskins]

I guess I was trying to be a little vague to keep certain info on the down low.
Welcome to New Zealand buddy. :D

[Josh Holdridge]

Lol, thanks Bunny. I was hoping to avoid listing my name and then advertising that I have an expensive instrument at home. Oh well, too late for that. I guess it's need to know in relation to my question.

Hope I can find out about my inquiry anyway. . .

[Richard Prowse]

Hello,

Can someone please explain what was said in an early post about 'string spin'?
I'm not familiar with this metric and I'm interested since I have a new bass.

To avoid appearance of taking this thread off topic, I'll put in my .02c about bel cantos. I have Flexo 92's on my bass (less than 1yr old) and was reasonably satisfied but not totally. I wanted something darker and warmer, bassically I'm impatient for it to sound old!

Put the BC's on there and immediately liked the deeper, thuddier sound of pizz. A little more gut-like sound, and lower tension than the Flexocors; buttery sound in some of the higher notes.
The jury is still out on the bowing. I'm going to try them in a few rehearsals and see how it goes. I have noticed that some notes seem easier to start but will have to see how they do on vigorous spicatto passages. The tone isn't too different from the 92's, my basses character seems to override the string difference a little bit, but they do have a bit less of an 'edge', which is ok with me.
I seemed to be getting a lot of scratchiness with the 92's though admittedly my technique has a long way to go. But if there is something about the BC's that is better for breaking in a new instrument, then I'd probably keep them on for a while.
Hi Josh,
I think 'string spin' is referring to the string actually twisting under the bow - this, I guess, would happen with a lighter, more flexible string.
Hey, Ken will undoubtedly correct me if I am wrong here.
I used BCs for about two years and they are a very good string (if you read the old posts on this thread, you'll see that they were my favourite at one point).
I have two basses - a new (2003) fully carved and an old (1950?) plywood. I've mainly used Spiro Weichs, Corelli (I think they were 700s?), BC EP and EP Weichs over the last while. They're all good strings and all work fine on both my basses. I bow lots and pizz lots - obviously each string has advantages and disadvantages. I've got EP Weichs on my main bass at present.
I like what Bin said a few posts ago. I agree that we probably spend too much time changing strings (fun though!).
My humble advice, for what it is worth, is to leave the BCs on your bass and put in some serious time gigging and practising. I found the BCs a tiny little bit too flexible for pizz but, having said that, I used them for some jazz gigs and a lot of gypsy jazz gigs. Give those strings a good go - that's my advice.
Hope that helps a bit.

[Josh Holdridge]

Thanks Richard. It seems sensible what you are saying about string spin, though I'm not exactly sure how that translates into being optimal for breaking in a new bass. Perhaps some engineering genuises will scoff at my underpowered brain but like you say, I'm not worrying about it too much. Just going to play the heck out of the bass and practice a lot, that should go a long way to breaking it in.

I do like the strings though. They're better at spontaneous jazz jam duo sessions with possesed sax players than the Flexocors were, and they bow fairly well.