Smith Bass Design and its History (The on-line Book in the making) [Archive] - Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Ken Smith

11-22-2008, 12:58 PM

Did you have any formal musical training or where you an ear player or both?

At the start of 7th grade (Ida Fischer Jr. High, Miami Beach, Fl.) I look at me schedule and see that one period has 3 classes but mixed throughout the week. I forget which or how many days for each but they were Art class, Shop class and Music. The School had 2 separate music rooms next to each other. One was the band room and one was the string room. In the summer preceding the start of school I knew I would have music and started thinking which instrument I would play. The two that came to mind was (I was still only 12 years old at that time) Trumpet or Drums, period! A friend of my brothers a few years older than me was playing Trumped so I guess it was in my mind. I knew nothing about music or instruments other than the Radio and TV. Actually, I probably never touched one until that first music class. I was assigned to the String room, NOT the Band room which I had hoped for. Actually, I was fine without music but I had to take it, no choice in the matter.

The first day the teacher (Mrs. Aline DaNino) showed us all the Violin, Viola, Cello and String Bass. We were showed how to Bow up and down each string and then tried out each instrument. At the end of the trials we were each asked which instrument would we like to play for the class which was I believe only once a week. Before I was asked, I had been thinking.. Violin and Viola, no way.. Cello? between my legs? yuck, thats for girls to play (I thought..lol). When I was finally asked I looked up to the top of the risers in the back and pointed, the.. the.. that ah.. "String Bass?" she asked.. Ah yeah.. I replied.. lol

So, after a few classes I asked to join the String ensemble because I liked it and I saved face, playing the only 'Manly' instrument amongst the 4 choices.. lol .. For real.. That was my thinking..

So, I played there two years plus some Summer programs and then went to NY and auditioned as an incoming Freshman for the ' High School of Music & Art' and was accepted. From there I became a professional Bassist and so on.

I was mostly (99%) a reader. The 'ear' thing came later. Using records, playing them over and over I would learn Bass parts and even write them out. I preferred transcribing and reading over listening and memorizing. It was just what I was comfortable with. Probably due to learning 100% from reading with just about 'zero' ear playing in the first few years.

Tim Bishop

11-22-2008, 01:47 PM

So, once you begain playing professionally, what would you consider your stand-out highlights from the beginning of our professional career until now?

Ken Smith

11-22-2008, 02:40 PM

So, once you begain playing professionally, what would you consider your stand-out highlights from the beginning of our professional career until now?

Humm.. well I bounced around from quite a few things. I won the Audition with Horace Silver in early 1969 when I was still only 17. I could not play in the clubs with the alcohol rules so I just did some concerts. Stanley Clarke had just turned 18, auditioned after me and was my replacement. That stands-out a bit looking back I guess but back then, winning the audition with Horace was considered a big thing. I beat out a lot of good players. In later years, I subbed for one of them on B'way. I guess the wounds if any had healed by then.

I was a fairly good reader and a doubler as well playing both Electric Bass and Double Bass. I was also a good bower. Funny saying 'was' because just two weeks ago I did a big band job and sight read charts on both basses as well. last week I did a Symphony gig (3 rehearsals and a Concert). The chops and 'eyes' are still ticking!

I would have to say that there was more work available on the BG than the DB but so many jobs needed both. At about 19/20 years old or so I got called to work for Johnny Mathis (http://www.johnnymathis.com/). The call was for both basses. We worked a few weeks at the Waldorf Astoria in NY, 7 days a week. The traveling rhythm section worked 7 days as well but the other contracted musicians could only work 6 days by Union law with Subs or alternates for the full 7 day work week. I was paid not for one double (an extra instrument aka Clarinet & Flute) but got the maximum of 4 doubles (each double is a small percentage extra over regular scale) plus a personal check of $75 from Mathis to make up for the 7th day in which I wasn't allowed to be working. Because he didn't have a bass player traveling with him they had to bend the rules a bit. The house contractor at the Waldorf worked it all out and said I was not to tell the Union about this which of course I didn't. During that engagement we did a HUGE concert at the 'Garden (MSG). There were seats up to the stage. Maybe 20-30,000 people at this venue. It was called 'Festival of the Stars'. It was the top 4 Columbia Records Pop artists. Johnny Mathis, Peter Nero, Vicki Carr and Percy Faith Strings. One HUGE Orchestra with 3 or 4 rhythm sections changing for each artist. I did just Mathis. Alvin Bream was the DB'ist for the String section. I just saw him behind me and never talked to him. About 2 years ago at my old NY Phil's Teacher's Birthday party/recital at Lincoln Center, I finally met and spoke with Alvin Bream.

Besides Mathis, I worked in (mostly subbing) about 18-20 B'way shows, other singers like Frank Sinatra Jr., Jimmy Roselli, Linda Hopkins, Kelly Garrett, Mercedes Hall (mother of Michael Anthony Hall, he was a cute kid back then.. lol), Shirley Bassey (Goldfinger!!) and many others. Some of this was in NYC, Concerts and some at Westbury Music fair. I did lots of Jingles (over 2,000 separate spots), a few Movie soundtrack dates, on screen in 2 movies and a few records of which most were for MMO (Music Minus One).

I also worked in the Orchestra at Radio City Music Hall first as a sub in the mid '70s. Years later they switched the venue (from 4 shows a day with the Rockets and a movie) to an 8-show a week B'way schedule. I did that too on and off. Not the best gig but it was a gig. I did Ginger Rogers (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Ginger+Rodgers&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#) last show there as well as the Christmas Show once or twice. I recall doing the Nutcracker there as well.

Late night Club gigs and private teaching also kept me busy.

Tim Bishop

11-22-2008, 02:59 PM

Very impressive, Ken.

So, with the end of the 70's approaching, what was the influence or intrigue that led you to building EB's?

Mike Braun

11-22-2008, 03:05 PM

Did you have any role in the development of the 6 string bass? I know yours was one of the firsts.

Ken Smith

11-22-2008, 04:06 PM

Did you have any role in the development of the 6 string bass? I know yours was one of the firsts.

Yes, most of the knowledgeable world of BGs (hopefully) knows that we made the first wide spaced non 0ne-off 6-string Bass. There is a book called "The bass Book" published in 1995 written by Tony Bacon where it is stated on pg.59 "Ex-Professional bassist turned luthier Smith was among the pioneers of the modern multi-stringed bass with wide string-spacing and low-B tuning". This is the caption under a picture of a Smith 6-string bass.

We made our first 6 for Anthony Jackson on 1981. There was very little if anything to go on as far as what to do or what to design. The only other one I had seen was the previous attempt for Anthony by Carl Thompson. I asked Anthony to show it to me so I could see what was wrong with the one he had. That look was mainly a 'what not to do' lesson. I say this without any disrespect towards Carl as we were at one time good friends.

Who did what first and where? Your guess is as good as mine. I am sure who invented electricity or anything else can always be disputed in some way. I am just saying that I had basically no examples at all to copy from. Just my playing skills and my instrument design ideas to make a working playable 6-string. Back there, there were no Parts companies to call up and order from. The Bridges and Pickups needed to be designed and made from scratch, custom ordered from people themselves that were not even sure what would work. It was an uphill struggle, but now.. we are here.

I do feel in a way that modern builders walk on a road paved partially be me and others like me that wanted to make something that before hand didn't exist.

Very impressive, Ken.

So, with the end of the 70's approaching, what was the influence or intrigue that led you to building EB's?

Ok, this might be awhile but I will keep it short for now and elaborate as we go on here.

In 1973 I bought a fine old 18th century Italian Bass. It was the best Bass I had ever played. Imagine playing up the low E string. After a few notes it becomes uneven and wolfy sounding. This bass could be be bowed from the Nut to the end of the Fingerboard over two octaves up and not a single bad note. Also, it bowed great with Spirocores and that in itself is odd because those strings are not easy to bow. They are great jazz strings but most players then used Flexocor for bowing, not Spirocores. This Bass was a monster and I was curious to find out how much an Electric Bass could be improved from its standard cardboard box with strings in comparison. Most people in NY played a Fender. Most Fenders had dead spots on the G string around the Bb to the Eb. Usually one note was the worst and one or two on either side of it. It was on the 'D' on one of the Basses I had. When ever I needed to play a long help note, I would play 'that' D on the D-string octave to make it ring out somewhat. This being only of of many point in comparing a stock or customized Fender bass to the DB that I had.

My goal was to make an Electric bass that could stand along side my DB and be equal within its own merits as far as sound quality went. It looked to me as if the Guitar industry was geared towards fast cheap 'accountant' planned costing within its manufacturing. I was thinking more along the lines of a hand made Violin.

My idea and desire for an Electric Bass was not part of the current industry. Yes, there were custom and private builders out there BUT, had the played my Italian Bass or knew what a Violin was or how to incorporate there grandfather string instrument methods and results into their stringed amplified carcass?

I wanted a Bass that had 'no' excuses attached to it in its making or performance. One night while playing the proto-type bass (made c.'76/77) in the Pit at 'Westbury Music Fair' for Shirley Bassey, the lead Trumpet player tells me my bass sounds great and that they listen to me for the 'pitch'. Years earlier, I worked with this same guy for a year in a B'way pit on my first B'way show gig and complaints were they daily dosage back then about the Bass being too loud usually, not compliments. You know, the Trumpets NEVER play on the beat..lol

After hearing a Trumpet player tell me he used my Pitch to play, I knew I was on the right track design wise.

Trust me, as I mentioned above, this IS the short version of the answer..lol

How long will it take to post 40 years of 'Bass' experience?

Bob Faulkner

11-24-2008, 11:14 AM

Can you expand on the concepts and techniques from the building of traditional acoustic string instruments that you incorporated in your bass designs, and what made you lean specifically in those directions?

Ken Smith

11-24-2008, 11:23 AM

Bob Faulkner

11-24-2008, 12:02 PM

Ken Smith

11-24-2008, 02:11 PM

you mentioned double bass and violin as part of your inspiration in one of the posts above. I was wanting some expansion on the building techniques of those instruments that you found attractive, and how you used them to improve the bass guitar.

Oh, ok. I'll do my best to explain my original dream and theory as well as application.

The Smith Basses were designed for feel and tone first. The hardware and electronics came later. My goal was to try and archive a smooth even vibrating string on every string, every note. I felt that the current slew or basses on the market were produced for a price point and not for the quality or rather acoustical level that I was searching for. By luck, you could pick up a fender on occasion and the notes (most of them) might ring well for some things but playing a slow ballad melody with some upper long notes, the sustain would fail and the tone was not the best, It was still a fender. I am not trying to knock Fender here at all. I am just using it as a comparison based on my personal experience.

Often in a recording, the standard Fender is just what people are used to hearing. For me, I was looking to get as close to the comparable quality to my Italian DB as compared to a factory made German imported Juzek bass. The Juzek might be ok in a School orchestra or on a jazz gig with an amp but in a professional Orchestra, it is just not on par with the great old English and Italian master grade basses. I was looking to make THE Master Grade Electric bass.

Things I looked into changing at first was the actual neck construction and wood grain orientation. Exotic wood feature strips were added for looks and stability. The theory was that a bad piece of wood may want to bend away from the others but in itself would not be strong enough to pull the others with it. Some other companies were already doing this but I cannot mention their names, sorry. I also know that these other companies were not known for their great necks as some of them incorporated 2 truss rods for better adjustability. My theory is to keep it simple but build it so it wont fail. Bass player wanna play, not fix. Giving them 2 truss rods to adjust might be more harm then help knowing that often its a do-it-yourself mindset.

On the body, I was not convinced that what companied did up until the time I started were thinking about tone and vibration as far as mixing with the neck. Soft bodies and hard necks might have frequencies that cancel each other out. Bold-on product on the market at that time was mainly high volume production. The neck and body parts were not specifically made to perfectly fit one another so there was some lever of acceptable 'slop' in the fit.

These are just a few things that made up the 'average' mindset of a high volume guitar production. Also, I believe that the 'built it from the price backwards' mentality although wise in general marketing, does not make a Stradivarius.

Trial and well.. more trial (don't think I had many errors) was the method of operation for me. This by the way is still going on after 400+ years of double Bass making.

So, open mind, open ears, open wallet:eek:. Yes.. it does get expensive trying to be inventive and/or creative.

Please feel free to nit-pick any of my answers if they do not fully quench your thirst. Also, if I've left something out, please remind me.

One more explanation to the question of 'building techniques'. I tried in the beginning to move away from what was being done already if it didn't look right as far as the 'right' or 'better' way so to speak. Each individual component must be made to it's fullest potential in order to work as a 'marriage' on a musical instrument. Price was never am initial concern as I didn't come from a business type or financial background. It was a consideration but not that the expense of the quality of the bass.

Remember now, I started tinkering in 1976 or so with this idea in my head when I was a full time professional Bassist in NYC. This was a personal goal of mine, not a business plan. It turned out that way and very very gradually. Nothing came fast with the exception of a good feel which was on Bass #1 and so on...

Mike Braun

11-27-2008, 12:36 AM

Hey Ken,

Can you please give us some information on the development of the pickups, electronics, and pickup placement?

Ken Smith

11-27-2008, 01:50 AM

Hey Ken,

Can you please give us some information on the development of the pickups, electronics, and pickup placement?

This is actually 3 separate answers as far as how things happened. I will be relatively brief for now and go deeper into it later if asked.

The Electronics in the Basses now are not at all what I originally intended. It was suggested to me in the beginning to go simpler like a Bass/Treble circuit other than the original big circuit like on 3 of the Basses we made for Stanley Clarke (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/news/jonathanaward/bass_soloist_award.htm) but I wanted what was in my head at the time.

The first BTs were started in 1981 with 4 knobs and some switches. These wend thru a few changes. In 1986 we did the concentric BT and made it for sale as a replacement for Fender type basses with some modifications needed but it would fit most. Then in 1993 we did the 4k-knob again but with an addable mid 5th knob. A few years ago we modified that and re-designed it to the current unit we have now.

On all the circuits from the first BT 4-knob to the Concentric and onwards I had played around with the Treble frequency center point as well as the shelf of the bass control. Mind you, the Amps we have today were not around in 1981 so the studio was about as close as you could get to hear the full range of the bass with they full range playback speakers.

The Pickups were also an idea in my head that took 3 years to get to and stayed there ever since the first Soapbars were completed in 1981. I personally made the first wooden casting molds out of Curly/Tiger Maple in my Brooklyn shop. The pickups we have now and since then is the sound in my head.

Placement... ok.. this was not as planned but it did come about unintentionally.

The first 20 pickups after a proto-type were all made by Bill Lawrence. Bill made a wooden cover for the first one and we made the other 20 in the shop. Then I ordered 60 more pickups and had some covers waiting. These were different. Bill had changed his tooling and didn't tell me. These used plastic mounting rings like a guitar pickup.

On one BT we made in 1981 the customer asked that we put the pickups as far back as possible towards the bridge. We did so and the mounting rings were almost touching each other. In a year of so he traded up and I took that bass back. Now though I had the new Soapbar and wanted to upgrade this earlier bass. We were able to re-route a slightly larger cur for the new pickup to fit and just barely routed away all the screw holes from the mounting rings. Now the pickups were further back towards the bridge with about 2 fingers of space between them, like they are now.

Maybe it was that bass, or that bass with there pickups or the placement or the re-build and re-firb of an older broken in bass.. something.. BUT, that bass was smoking.. I made the decision then that this would be the new pickup spacing.. Why? Because I liked it. No R&D.. just my gut feeling and some R&B actually..:cool:

That's in in a nutshell..

Tim Bishop

11-27-2008, 09:43 AM

Ken Smith

11-27-2008, 11:59 AM

Ken, how did you come about determining string choice for your basses?

I ask this because I have tried other strings on your basses :eek:, however, my ear always takes me back to Smith Medium Taper Cores :);).

Well, prior to the Taper Core which came out in 1983 I had used the same gauges that came about with some trial and error or rather by choosing what worked best for my ear and also the same gauges in a Bare Core. Just before, during or right after (not 100% clear on the timing) we made our first 6-string by order for Anthony Jackson we were asked by him to make a Piano style Core for the Bridge area similar to what Rotosound had been making but without the adjustable Ball length which required a tool and some work to fit and tighten each Bass to the Core for every string. So, we made the same Gauges but used different Core wire and slightly different construction than did Rotosound and made a fixed Bass Bare Core String. These were called 'Bare Core' which we sold mainly to Anthony and maybe 10-20% to others after market. We continued to use our RWM (Round Wound Medium) Custom Balanced Gauges.

About a year in to this while at a Namm Show in 1982 Martyn Howe from Rotosound came into my display Booth during the Show and told me that they had a Design Patent Registered for that String and if I wanted to use them, I would HAVE TO buy it from them, not my supplier here in the USA. When I consulted a Lawyer shortly after the Show and looked up their Patent we discovered that our String was made differently but intended for the same exact usage. I was told that Patents are mainly for Design and not Usage. Then I was asked by the Layer about Income for this string and how much it was worth to me. I explained that gross sales (or gross profit, can't recall exactly this far back) was only about $2,000 a year on that particular string which by then we had in 4 gauges (L,M,ML,LM.) It was then that we were told that right or wrong, we could not afford to fight this in Court if $2,000 annually was the amount we were trying to protect. Then, my main contact at the String factory suggested that we run the last cover wire over that Bare Core and be done with it! This design was already in use with the Double Ball Strings but with 'Bare Core' on my mind, the thought just never came to me.

So, just like the Pickup placement coming about by chance, so did the Taper Core idea. Funny huh? To this date, I think I have sold more Taper Core than RS has probably sold in their design that they called 'Superwound'. I never hear of them nor do I know if they still make them.

One think of note here is that there was a small problem with the BC strings with some players. They had to raise up their Bridge saddles pretty high to get the Bare Core up high enough so that they didn't hit the Pickups when playing due to them sitting lower on the saddle on the Core and not higher up on the total thicker winding diameter. Some players also reported some overtone problems due to the raw exposure and accuracy brought about by a string with a truer tone than the sometimes muffled sound with some round wounds on the thicker gauges. The Taper Core was right in the middle between the BC and the Regular wound sting and fixed the overtone problem as well.

After developing the TC Strings in the same 4 gauges we made the regular Custom Balanced and BCs in, we started using the TCRM as our standard string for the Smith Basses. This happened around 1983 or so.

Mike Jenkins

11-28-2008, 03:23 AM

Ken Smith

11-28-2008, 06:37 AM

I've been to the shop in PA and enjoyed meeting you and taking the tour. I love my BSR Elite 6. (1) Did you ever have formal luthier training, if so from where and if not how did you get he courage to try building your first bass? (2)Can you tell us where you built your first bass and what you had available such as tools/woods to do the building? (3) Can you tell us the story of how you moved from where you first started building to where your shop is now? (4) Please tell us what led you to try various building techniques such as multiple piece necks, multiple piece sides and body shapes (BT, BSR, Fusion)

Well, we might run out of ink here so I will keep brief what I can.

1) No, just working on my own Basses since I was a teen. Made plenty of mistakes, asked a zillion questions and got to where I am today. Still learning..;)

2) The first one was glued up at Carl Thompson's shop and left mainly un-carved but cut out and made to the Specs of the Pine Demo I made. I carved the body in my lap sitting on a chair next to my bed in my 13th street apartment in NYC about 1976 or so. I had some tools as I had also been restoring Double basses for some years by then as well. I bought some old maple to make the neck and in later years made a few more necks from that same chunk of wood. The body wood was Birdseye maple and I may have gotten that from Carl, can't recall 100% now.

3) Moves.. wow.. well my first shop was in Brooklyn in mid 1980 a few blocks from Vinne's parents house (Fodera) where he lived then. Just prior to that between Spector where Vinne worked prior and a wood dupli-carving place in Brooklyn we made two runs of 16 Basses each. The second run was around the time Spector was moving after selling his company to Kramer then. I don't recall if we made the entire run there because I remember re-carving at least one of the bass bodies afterwards. Some carving at my place and some at Vinnies house.

Vinnie always wanted his own shop and I was at that time a fairly busy freelance studio musician. I was only wanting to design my bass in the beginning, not build a company. It came to this by the needs to continue the initial dream of having my Bass out there on the market. You know the saying, "if you can't get it done right, do it yourself". Well, what started out as a good looking arrangement, wasn't! In 1983 I sold the Shop to Vinnie with all the tools and some woods for his own basses which he promised would not be in competition with me at all. Well, we all know how that turned out. The exception being that a Coke in NY is 2x the price as in PA, so it would seem.

By 1985 I had sought out a shop in Pa that had done some contract work for Martin Guitars when they went into making solid bodies. Using a Bass I had completed in the Dovetail style model (hidden mortise actually, as made decades earlier and still today by Gibson and others) I tooled up in PA to make a run of maybe 20 or 40 Basses, I can't recall the number. I sold a bit of the wood I had in NY to Fodera but had already used quite a bit of it on my own Basses there the last 2 years in the sub-contract phase. When I sold the shop to Fodera, the building owner asked him to move a half block down because his son was taking this corner location for a Pizza shop. They had to tear down and re-build the shop all over again a few doors down the street.

We had dozens of Necks glued up before this all happened and quite a bit of body parts as well. Fodera mainly completed the work I had already started in the other shop. After working in the Studios some mornings or on days I was free, I would drive to the shop in Brooklyn and make the Neck and Body parts myself. Vinnie did the carving and the basic oil finishing. I would complete the Oiling in my apartment in NYC and do all the set-up work.

In case you are wondering, the total number of Basses made in NY (many or most of them carved by Vinnie but NOT all of them) we made just about 200 Basses, The first serial # for a PA Bass was #201. We are now approaching 5,800. Actually, we are over that with the stock I have but have not numbered them yet as I only do that during the final set-up. So the score is PA 5,600+, NY 200.

In PA we moved a few times looking for better space and then I personally took over running the operations in 1991. I was commuting to PA and bringing the Basses back to my apartment in NYC (till 1987 or my office from '87-95) to do the set-up and shipping. In 1994 I bought a house in PA with plans to move out of NY for good when the school year ended in June of '95.

With building code problems concerning my building which I was renting I was forced to find another location. The owners would not bring the building up to code externally so we had to look elsewhere. I put about $60k into the interior of the building and both the Local and State inspectors as well as the Fire Marshal said what I had done was fine. It is the building that is not up to code, not the interior.

I found a new building in 1997 and placed a deposit on it to purchase. I tried purchasing the old building but the owner would not sell. As soon as they heard I was moving, they sent in some home improvement handy man and his schlock crew and brought the building up to some level of code but only after 2 years of state violations and a Court hearing in which they were fined. By this time I was already making other plans and stayed there only long enough to get the other building ready. We moved in the new place at the end of June, 1998 and turned in the keys to the old place.

Having ownership of a building allows you to do things you might not do in a rented space because all the improvements are yours to keep.

4) Ok, various techniques and designs are not necessarily the same thing but one does need the other. Neck pieces, body pieces and body shapes..

Humm, well coming from the 70s we know what didn't work to the greatest and that was the single piece slap cut Maple neck with a decoration of Rosewood as a fingerboard at best as the Frets actually go in as deep as the wood is thick. My Idea at first was 2 pieces of matched Maple with a rosewood center strip. Opposing wood grain for strength and the darker strip for beauty. Half of that center strip would be routed away for a truss rod so structure was not the main advantage there. About a year into the basses I made up a 5-pc Neck. Rickenbacker and Alembic had done this already so it wasn't new. My first 5-pc had tiger maple and mahogany mixed. Only one or two that way. Then, I went with Morado as the strips and stayed there for some time. I also added Graphite in the Neck parts in mid 1980. I think we made the Neck and Body parts with a friend in NYC for the second run that were carved thru Spector or maybe the 3rd run right after. These details escape me at the moment. The important fact is that by 1980, I was trying Graphite Carbon Fibers mixed with Epoxy in the necks to strengthen and and stabilize them.

We did both regular and Graphite inlaid necks after the first year and until today as well. Body laminations are more aesthetic mainly from the concept but the tone does change each way you do it and with each wood used. Infinite combinations are possible. I try to stick with what I can predict mainly.

Body designs came as they did. The original shape at first and then the BT which was altered for the size of the back plate needed for the circuit and the point at the bottom added for style as it just fit there and looked right. Other shapes came from a need of pleasing different players and making something new. The BT design was over 12 years old and we needed a second shape. The 1993 BMT was first shape I designed in PA and then the BSR a few years later which combined the two. Adding the curve back at the bottom we get the Fusion model which is the combined shapes of all of them in a blender. Not as much science here with the body shapes as compared to the necks but if it feels right, it is right.

Try telling a BT lover that the BSR is better. It's a no win situation. They like what they like and I am not about to tell anyone they are wrong. This is why we still to this day take orders for the BT shape and even some with the older larger headstock.

Richard Hall

01-13-2009, 05:44 PM

Count me in.Same for me.

Lou Laurenti

02-25-2009, 05:52 PM

Ken

There are many of us in the bass world who would love to know the real history of Ken Smith basses. What we would like to know is how you started making basses, when and where you started. What inspired you to start making KS basses?

I recently read a link that was posted on e-bays sellers listing who was trying to sell and older model Ken Smith bass. The link was rather confusing involving the one of your past employees Vinny Fodera. Many of us including my self would like you to elaborate on what was posted on this e-bay link.

Again we would love to know an accurate history of Ken Smith basses. There are so many Ken Smith bass players and lovers of Ken Smith basses. I feel the information you could provide all of your fans and bass player would be invaluable and very educational.

Thanks
Lou
Laurenti

Ken Smith

02-26-2009, 11:37 AM

Ken

You seem to have a good writing style. I susggest you write a book

Lou

Well, I have a good idea what to say, but not always when to say it.. lol

Perhaps you will be my ghost and work on a percentage? I hate typing.

Lou Laurenti

02-26-2009, 03:42 PM

Well, I have a good idea what to say, but not always when to say it.. lol

Perhaps you will be my ghost and work on a percentage? I hate typing.

I think that can be arranged let's talk about it. Lets not forget you should be in the bass history books

Lou

Ken Smith

02-26-2009, 04:11 PM

I think that can be arranged let's talk about it. Lets not forget you should be in the bass history books

Lou

Well, actually I have seen my name mentioned in a few of them. At least that's a start.

So Lou, besides doing MY History, do a Bass History Book so I can get included in there as well..;)

Lou Laurenti

02-26-2009, 04:58 PM

Well, actually I have seen my name mentioned in a few of them. At least that's a start.

So Lou, besides doing MY History, do a Bass History Book so I can get included in there as well..;)

I think so
LOL

Christopher Rhodes

03-07-2009, 10:57 AM

Ken Smith

03-07-2009, 11:06 AM

Ken,

How did you come up with the construction method of the neck-thru basses? How did you get it to feel so smooth?

No other luthier does this to my knowledge. Is this your patented idea?

I always take notice of this feature when soloing in the upper register of your instruments. So comfortable.

Chris

I don't think 'ideas' can be patented but either way, it just sort of developed over time on the bench. A smooth feel has always been the goal here so it just fell in place. The early basses were less carved in the horns but still smooth. In the last 10 years or so the basses have been cut-in slightly more around the neck-body joint area.

Christopher Rhodes

03-07-2009, 06:55 PM

I really enjoy the 'heeless' feature of your basses; where the body and neck meet.

I also like the balance standing or sitting. Many basses can only do one well.

The body shape of the BMT is a bit more balanced for my personal taste.
The BSR hits the mark very well with body shape in regards to function of balance either standing or sitting.

This is a very interesting thread for me. I did not know of any of these pieces of the history of your company.

David Newcomb

01-17-2010, 11:03 AM

Thanks Ken for clearing up a lot of the myths and urban legends that float out there about KSB and the early years.
People over the years have seen me gig with #41 and many tell that story, about "thats really a Fodera" etc etc and how HE made all the basses etc etc...which unfortunately was the urban legend that circulated until I read YOUR clarifications.
When I joined this forum a few years ago I was all but washed up at playing professionally, mostly for health reasons. As anti public smoking laws and lighter technology made it possible for me to 1) breathe in a club and 2) actually carry an amp 4 times in a night in order to gig, I found myself up to last week in TWO working bands (my pregnant wife and various issues with running my cab companies forced me to choose to play in only the GB band going forward).
These days even outside of formal band practice and gigs, I log hours a day on various basses, my KSB included. Ironically I tend to play UB more than anything in between dispatch calls-maybe cause it is so challenging for "just an ear trained electric dude" to get music out of such a big girl as my Kay.
If I had a musical goal these days it would be to get good enough on UB to gig successfully (my version of successful is no one throwing things or booing). Chris Wood is my hero- funk sounds so good coming from a UB!

Ken Smith

01-17-2010, 12:03 PM

I too have hated the Smoke filled clubs and the 'schlepping' part of carrying the Amp as well. I hear you loud and clear.

On the Fodera 'myth' comments I would call it more like mis-information or incomplete information as he DID work for me for a few years and also as a sub-contractor BUT for only PART of the first 190-something basses. We are nearing the 6,000 mark some 30 years into it.

The Basses we make today combine all that I/we have learned in this 30 year period as what makes a better bass. Not and NEVER 'how to make it cheaper'. I will cut my salary and I have done so in order to make the best possble bass we can and ensure its quality and price point. I think some of the 'boutique' basses out there are way way over priced. Often, you are paying for their expensive rent, sports cars and life styles rather then 'bass for the money charged'.

Now, on your Kay Bass playing for fun or practice, make sure this DB is set-up properly with minimum FB camber and optimum playability. My DB's are set up like my Smith Basses. They are just bigger!;)

If you need a local DB Luthier to make that Kay more playable, call me and I will give you the name and number of a guy there doing some work for me as well. It's no use working harder than you need to regardless of the size of the bass.

David Wolliston

01-18-2010, 06:00 AM

Ken Smith

01-18-2010, 08:10 AM

Hi Ken. I love the idea of a book by you i would most def. buy one. Seeing that bass prices range from cheap to MAD expensive, how do you keep your prices at the price that you charge? There are companies out there that charge almost double the price that you charge but yet still your basses are double the quality and playability.

Do you plan on making another model bass? as the Fusion Elite 25th Anniv. seems to be the Mothership?

dw

Actually I find it hard to believe that people pay upwards of $8k for some of these basses or any of them actually. I don't see these basses being worth anywhere near that. Maybe half that price at best.

I charge what I think I need to charge and raise prices only when I have to. I own the building/property now so I control the rent. That is about all I control but if I were in New York, I would have to charge more to cover the on going rent and expenses there. Unfortunately, no matter how much you charge to cover the rent and expenses, none of that cost-wise is reflected in the bass, the quality or resale value.

Like you buy a can of Coke. I charge you maybe $1 and the other guy charges you $3-4. Then he smiles and shows you his rent so you will feel better about the cost. Maybe, he shows you his Porsche as well that you helped pay for. In the mean time, all YOU have in your hand is a $1 can of Coke. WHY can't people see that?

It is the responsibility of the business owner to control his overhead so that his product is not inflated in the sale price in order to pay for his mistakes or greed for that matter. YOU, the consumer pay a part in that too. If the product is not worth that price, don't buy it!

David Wolliston

01-18-2010, 10:55 AM

Ken Smith

01-18-2010, 11:26 AM

Hi Ken....Another question for you. How come you don't have Many Signature Model bass guitars apart from the Mel Davis 7 string bass? Mostly all other companies use folks to push their product, hence a hike in the price of their basses.

What, my name isn't enough?

I think that Signature Models are for cheaper brands for the most part so kids can buy the 'supposed' brand of their heroes. Do you think Stanley Clarke cares what Anthony Jackson plays?

We are not in the gimmick business, sorry.

In the high end, the bass itself needs no signature other than what's there.

Tim Bishop

01-18-2010, 03:15 PM

What, my name isn't enough?

I think that Signature Models are for cheaper brands for the most part so kids can buy the 'supposed' brand of their heroes. Do you think Stanley Clarke cares what Anthony Jackson plays?

We are not in the gimmick business, sorry.

In the high end, the bass itself needs no signature other than what's there.Yes, a big +1 to that!

David Newcomb

01-21-2010, 10:00 AM

Ken Smith

01-21-2010, 12:12 PM

Were any of the early basses that had the wood cover Bill Lawrence pickups 5 or 6 string basses? I only ask this because on the rare occasions something of this era comes up for sale on Ebay or a similar site they are always 4 strings like mine. (Subway guitars has I believe #43 or #44 and this morning I saw a 4 string Pas II #108 on Ebay but it has the soaps).

There were only a few basses made with the wood covers, all but one or two were 4-string and were 1 or 2 pickup basses. Mainly one pick-up. There were two 6s made with wood covers but the Pickups were not by Bill Lawrence. These were custom coils made up that went into the first two 6s. One for Anthony Jackson, the first 6 we did and the second, a near twin went to Bill Dickens.

Anton Hasias

01-27-2010, 10:35 AM

Hi Ken,

No need to tell you how much I appreciate your art of making basses.
I have a question concerning the finish of your basses either satin or high gloss.
I would like to hear the story of how have you arrived to find these finishes and the impact they have tone wise on Smith basses.
So please tell us about your "Secret Sauce".

Best regards

Ken Smith

01-27-2010, 12:52 PM

Anton Hasias

01-27-2010, 02:08 PM

Oh yes, I understand... The Secret Syndrome.
For sure is not the secret formula that I wanted, but just your history as a high end electric bass luthier.

Best regards

Ken Smith

01-27-2010, 03:13 PM

Oh yes, I understand... The Sectet Syndrome.
For sure is not the secret formula that I wanted, but just your history as a high end electric bass luthier.

Best regards

Trial and error with various formulas available and mixing a few of them as well for the right ah.. flavor...;)

Anton Hasias

01-27-2010, 04:15 PM

Nice, like the ancient alchemists you transform the warnish into gold.
I am sure the bass history will remember and will pay respect to this.

Best regards

Lou Laurenti

01-28-2010, 12:12 AM

Smith Bass Design and its History..

Who here is interested in discussing this and learning how it came to be?

Ken you need to do this book it would be great

Lou

frederic vidal

01-28-2010, 02:11 AM

+1 for a wonderfull book with lot of pics and history to our favori brand :)

I order one copy

frédéric : 1 :D

Ken Smith

01-28-2010, 08:15 AM

+1 for a wonderfull book with lot of pics and history to our favori brand :)

I order one copy

frédéric : 1 :D

I order 10 copies..:)

Where do I order them? Who's writing this book??:confused:

frederic vidal

01-29-2010, 02:33 AM

Larry Elwood

02-02-2010, 01:14 PM

Ken Smith

02-02-2010, 01:50 PM

Hi Ken,

Not sure if this quite fits in this History of KSB forum but i think it would be interesting to hear about it and it does seem like a pretty significant part of the KSB past.

Can you talk about what lead up to the conception and development of the original Burner Series and how the process unfolded?

How were you able to maintain such excellent quality control with a large part of the building process happening half way around the world - it seems like other instrument manufacturer's can't duplicate what you were able to do when they cross the water.

Thanks!

Larry Elwood

What let up to it was seeing all of the Asian copies of American Basses. I was at the Frankfurt show in Germany in March of 1989 sharing space as a guest with Jim Dunlop. His good friend and mine now, Toshio Moridaira, owner and founder of MMI (Moridaira Musical Instruments) in Japan and also owner and founder of Morris Guitars. A maker and subcontractor that had made for many famous companies. In Japan, Morris is a famous brand as well. I witnessed that a month later when I went to Japan.. I will get to that.

I asked Toshio (I played golf with both these guys, Jim and Toshio) to walk with me to look at some basses from Japanese companies. One of them offered to make basses for me but then Toshio told me "they are not factory, only trading company". It was that walk on the show floor that opened my eyes as to how things are done. He then became my mentor instantly. He offered to make basses for me as his factory could do the job. A week later when back in New York I sent them a BT neck thru to copy as a bolt-on. The following month in April I flew to 'Frisco to meet with him at his Cali' house and play a little golf with him and Dunlop of course and then off to Japan for business. They were not quite done with the sample when I arrived but we finished it there at the Morris plant in or near Nagano.

The head maker could make Violins, Acoustic Guitars and even Banjos by hand. He was a real Luthier. He said in Japanese that HE must handmake the Artist Model himself and the other models Custom, Deluxe and Standard can be thru normal production. He was clear about that in not such a nice way BUT, he wanted the credit at home for being the Luthier he was. The bass that Hadrien Feraud plays is the Artist model Burner!

This was the start. That sample was an Artist model and we still own it. My son Jon had been playing that same bass since he was 4 years old. He is turning 22 this year. They made 6 more basses for the June Summer NAMM that year in 1989 as samples and then we made the first 3 runs of 40 basses, 40 basses and then 80 basses the third run and finally caught up with the orders from that first show. We had 5 left in stock after producing 166 basses.

Being a personal friend of the owner helps. One day in Tokyo on that trip he walked me around town to some stores. We walked into a Guitar store and the sales girl greeted us like customers, took a second look at Toshio and HIT THE FLOOR bowing to him as if God had just walked in.:eek: No Joke. I once saw a head of one of the most famous Japanese brand Guitar companies do almost the same thing in the lobby of the Nashville Convention Center one evening just after 6pm as we were all leaving. This guy (a famous Japanese CEO) was bowing and bowing and bowing as if asking for forgiveness..

My contact in Japan is a Powerful person in this business. I have nothing but respect for him as he started with nothing and built an empire in his own life time. While touring his factory he showed me his old office, now empty. He said "Ken San, (that's what he calls me) if you move to Japan, this can be your office".

Staying at his house with him and his wife and later meeting all 3 of his grown children (2 sons and a daughter) as well as being invited to his Daughters wedding Reception at a Namm show private party tells me he respects me as well.

So, it's not all business. It's people too. Gotta have people. We can't do without them. He taught me about business "first you give trust, and then you get trust". I taught him something we say when asked how things are.. "so far, so good". He loves that saying. He taught me a few words in Japanese as well while I was there. ;)

Larry Elwood

02-02-2010, 03:02 PM

Ken,

Wow! Thanks! What a fantastic story. I get it- the level of quality, care and respect that went into those burners... And on a side note - I'm ultra stoked now because only a couple of days ago I acquired beautiful walnut/mahogany/maple 1991 Artist burner 4 string that is in superb shape. Now I know it's back story too!

amazing...

Tim Bishop

02-02-2010, 06:01 PM

Ken, you also performed final set-up on the Burner's as well, correct?

Ken Smith

02-02-2010, 06:04 PM

Ken, you also performed final set-up on the Burner's as well, correct?

That is correct. We also installed all of the Electronics as well from late 1992 and on. Top woods for all Artist models and the maple and walnut for the Customs were supplied by us as well. We also supplied the fingerboards after 1992 with Morado instead of rosewood during the first few years.

Ken Smith

02-03-2010, 05:01 AM

:D:D:D

If you can speak to us the story of the john patitucci collaboration ken.

I remember the first time i saw a Ken Smith bass...

It's on John Patitucci eponyme album, it was in 1988 :rolleyes:

What a sound ! terrific !

It was different than usual. Chick Corea called me up to tell me about his new bassist to be and that he wanted a Smith Bass. I knew Chick thru Stanley Clarke and even got to play with Chick one day so he had my number. He asked that I help this new young player to get the bass he was looking for.

John came over shortly after and tried a Maple 6-string with gold hardware. He was still on the road with Dave Sanborn and had to finish that tour up before starting with Chick. He said if this one sells he would get the next one which I had in production. It was Walnut and maple with Chrome Hardware. We made so few 6s back then and had only that one bridge for a 6 in stock put aside for the 2nd bass, the walnut. Both with our Oil finish we used then.

Shortly after, he called and the first maple bass was sold so he bought the 2nd one, the walnut, sight unseen. The rest is history I guess. People tell me he never sounded better than when he played his Smith 6. The model was a BT back then like today's oil finished neck thrus, GN/BT and Black Tiger models.

I think these basses then sold for under $3k. He paid the regular asking price but did get to reserve the bass while he was out on the road.

frederic vidal

02-03-2010, 05:40 AM

And what a great history !

I'm totaly agree with myself :D

The wonderfull, marvelous, smooth, full and precis sound when he played a KSB miss me a lot.

I can say it, I don't like the sound that it had when it changed instrument but i'm not rancorous, i'm a big fan of his work ;)

Thanks for this piece of history ken.

Tim Bishop

02-04-2010, 09:40 PM

That's some cool history there. :)

Tim Bishop

02-04-2010, 09:47 PM

That is correct. We also installed all of the Electronics as well from late 1992 and on. Top woods for all Artist models and the maple and walnut for the Customs were supplied by us as well. We also supplied the fingerboards after 1992 with Morado instead of rosewood during the first few years.As for final set-up, etc.: I think this was a critical phase of production that contributed greatly to the Burner's success.

Mike Braun

04-06-2010, 06:06 PM

Hey Ken,

Can you talk about your companies relationship with Anthony Jackson and John Pattitucci?

Ken Smith

04-06-2010, 07:27 PM

Hey Ken,

Can you talk about your companies relationship with Anthony Jackson and John Pattitucci?

That's past history. Both went on to a different company that needed their name and were possibly paid to use their product in either cash, instruments, royalties, paid clinics or some or all of the above. I think..;)

Don't quote me on it. Just use your imagination.

Ask them directly if you can and good luck on getting a straight answer or a truthful one for that matter.

We don't do endorsements like that and we never chase players down to use their names or buy our products. They either come to us or they don't. I'm just not that good of a hustler or one at all.

Both players paid the normal asking price for their Smith Basses and services but got a discount on strings which were bought in fairly healthy quantities.

Jose Bichoff

05-06-2010, 10:20 PM

Ken,

Can you comment on how much the Internet and technology advances changed your business and the bass making process itself over the past years? Thank you.

Ken Smith

05-06-2010, 10:56 PM

Ken,

Can you comment on how much the Internet and technology advances changed your business and the bass making process itself over the past years? Thank you.

Business, yes. Making process, I would say not directly.

Remember that when I started we didn't even have cell phones yet. I learned how to balance a checkbook before we had personal calculators.

I have on my wall a 1985 5-string, one of the last NY Basses. Other than some dimension changes and model differences we still make them the same. We do have some improved processes mostly by choice but try improving on a 200 year old or more Violin, Cello or Double Bass!

It still takes hands and patience. If anything, modern tecnology has hurt quality hand made work. Too many machines with no eyes or feelings. Just shapes cut out with no soul in them.

Business wise with the Internet I have saved a ton on advertising for one. Second, I can make updates to the world in a flash of time.
Third, what's a catalog again?..:confused:

Email in itself has improved and sped up communications faster than I would have ever imagined. When I was getting my first Fax machine around 1989 I was told that electronic mail (email) would be the next thing coming to the world and make faxing almost obsolete. I had no idea at that time what they were referring to?
Put a mini preamp under the stamp on a letter??? huh?:confused:

Anyone know what a Typewriter is? I have one for sale.. :rolleyes:

The world is a smaller place now but two things that will never go out is 'hands-on' and 'word of mouth'. A product needs to almost sell itself with some basic explanation. You can't hard sell quality. Either you understand what you are looking at or you don't.

Just like 'Electronic Mail' when I first heard the term. You couldn't sell it to me if you were paying me because I have no clue what it was.
---------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, I was moving some wood around downstairs in the storage area yesterday and within these tiger maple blocks I bought over 10 years ago I found some beautiful highly flamed Tiger blocks for the BT model as far as the length goes. So, we might make a special model soon to use this stuff.

"The BT Vintage White Tiger Elite" (TBVE). Exhibition grade Tiger Top and high figure backs, Quilted Maple Cores (12-18 year old stock), 12-18 year aged Walnut body features and sawn Walnut laminates, Ebony Head Cap, high figure Tiger/Shedua Heel cap neck-thru on back, Abalone inlaid top and side Dots and Logo (ala 25th), Maple/Shedua 5pc Neck, all the electronics of the Elite (at least) and.. The strap buttons, maybe Dual for longer strap hang (or flush on request). Basically the works on a 5pc body and neck like the first 25th models were.

Interested? Any takers?

We have longer BSR length Blocks as well but thought we would kick off this series with the older BT shape.

I would be glad to hear your comments or answer your questions on this.

Anton Hasias

05-07-2010, 06:45 AM

Ken Smith

05-07-2010, 09:09 AM

Sounds nice,

I still have some questions:
- Will this be a limited edition, if yes how many pieces approx?
- Will be this edition crafted in 4,5 & 6 strings?
- Which is the price evaluation?
- Only 5/5 or also a possibility of 7/7 ?(as in my personal opinion the 7/7 sound definition is more precise and also offers to this BT model a beautiful ageless upper class status)
- When is it supposed to happen?

Anyway in case this will be a limited edition, please put me first on your list for the no.1 of the 6 strings model.

Best regards

- Will this be a limited edition?.. Not sure yet. We have plenty of wood..

- Will be this edition crafted in 4,5 & 6 strings?.. Yes

- Which is the price evaluation?....... Not totally sure but similar to the Black Tiger Elite which is Elite$ plus Exhibition wood$

- Only 5/5 or also a possibility of 7/7 ?... For 7/7 I would move it to the 25th model and just go all the way.

- When is it supposed to happen?... We usually do stock bass making in the Summer when we are not so busy. I will make a group of 5s first most likely.

Anton Hasias

05-07-2010, 11:25 AM

Ok, got it, but, in case of choosing a 25th, it will not be a BT6 model right, or...
Best regards

Ken Smith

05-07-2010, 12:35 PM

Ok, got it, but, in case of choosing a 25th, it will not be a BT6 model right, or...
Best regards

You can basically ala a carte the bass and let it fall into whatever model it's closest to.

The main thing mentioned here was these few 5a blocks I found that are too short for BSRs so I will make some special BT models with them. White Tiger is a name we have used before in Japan for similar basses sold there.

Anton Hasias

05-07-2010, 01:52 PM

Ok, thanks,

Can't wait to see the result in 5s and also in 6s.(I think you will post the information as soon as you will have a planning).
For sure I was waiting for a more exclusive high flyer "limited edition" of this Vintage BT beauty model :rolleyes: but even like this I think this is a refreshing new.
Maybe later, I hope.

For the moment, what about the typewriter? - lol!

Best regards

Jose Bichoff

05-08-2010, 12:55 AM

Ken Smith

05-08-2010, 05:25 AM

Hi Ken and friends!

Ken, your basses are one of the finest things in the world. Building 5-string, 6-string and 7-string basses with stability and robustness certainly isn't an easy task for any builder, and among them you are not a follower but a leader, as you say. :rolleyes:
:confused: My question: have you ever tried before with less strings, let's say 3-string or even 2-strings basses? (I've already seen some before and they are tuned by 5ths, and not by 4ths a regular bass... well, you can tune the way you want, but...).
Was there any idea that you decided to abandon because it was too 'weird'?(like this one) ;)

(I still keep my typewriter too and I think you should do the same. We never know when anybody will come with a 'USB to Old Typewriter' stuff. Maybe Mike? He's the computer geek here, isn't he?;) In the mean time, I keep mine oiled and ready! :D )

Thanks,

In the history of the Double Bass, 3-string was quite common around the world from the 17th - 19th centuries before the 4-string slowly became the standard in the early 20th century. It went to 4-string for a reason. They needed the notes. Playing in 5ths was also tried, and then abandoned. There are a few that play in 5ths now but the normal is 4-string in 4ths. It is hard enough to play as it is now so I don't plan on making any bass with less than 4-strings and tuned in 4ths. I am a player first and I design from experience, not bad dreams..:eek:

Jose Bichoff

07-22-2010, 07:57 PM

Just out of curiosity, would you describe, in each 100 basses made, how many percent are 4-string, 5, 6 and 7?

Ken Smith

07-22-2010, 11:17 PM

Just out of curiosity, could you describe, in each 100 basses made, how many percent are 4-string, 5, 6 and 7?

Can I or will I?:confused:

More 5s than 6s but some years it's close. About 60/40 on average.

In the last 20 years or so the 4s average from 10% on the low end to 20% at the highest.

The 7s number only 49 to date in total. That is less than 3 a year since we made the first so that model is not in the mix. We make them when we have orders. We only make the 7s in the Elite version.

Jose Bichoff

07-23-2010, 12:00 AM

Can I or will I?:confused:

Thanks for correcting me
Unlike wine or your basses, it seems that my English is not improving over time ;) my bad
Hope you understand

Ken Smith

07-23-2010, 12:15 AM

Thanks for correcting me
Unlike wine or your basses, it seems that my English is not improving over time ;) my bad
Hope you understand

It wasn't a correction of your wording. I meant that to answer you I have to go back and count them to figure this it. It so happens that earlier today I counted the last 12 months of sales for next years projections and had it handy on my desk. The 7s I have a list of all by themselves. If not I would have answered 10/50/38/2% from 4 to 7 and left it at that. I just got back from a gig and came in to drop off my bass so I am quite tired and have to get back in early tomorrow. It's now or whenever with an answer like that..;)

Tim Bishop

08-30-2010, 07:25 PM

Ken,

What was your reasoning behind the 2 over 3 peg-head design?

Tim B.

Ken Smith

08-30-2010, 07:36 PM

Ken,

What was your reasoning behind the 2 over 3 peg-head design?

Tim B.

In my mind, it comes from double basses starting sometime in the 19th century. The lower gears moved up a slot and the higher ones down. I see this from France a lot and partly from Germany. The theory I believe is that the thicker or thickest strings needs more after-length and decreased break-over angle.

German examples both ways; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/mittenwald/images/scroll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/pollmann1/images/pollmann01_12.jpg

French examples both ways; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/vuillaume/images/vuillaume8.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/jacquet-gand/images/scroll-right.jpg

Also, I had some requests for the reverse gears on the 5s from my Distributor in Japan and then put it on the 25th models. Soon after I made it standard. You can still order a bass with the older 3/2 configuration.

Tim Bishop

08-30-2010, 07:59 PM

Interesting. With the 2/3, do you think there is a better distribution of tension across the nut and neck/fretboard?

Ken Smith

08-30-2010, 08:05 PM

Interesting. With the 2/3, do you think there is a better distribution of tension across the nut and neck/fretboard to the bridge?

I don't know. I never measured it. ;)

Ben Rose

09-29-2010, 12:13 PM

Ken Smith

09-29-2010, 12:59 PM

How have neck shapes changed over the years in terms of spacing and profile (if at all)?

Also, your basses have a very unique tone. What influenced your pursuit of this sound? Yes, they are capable of a wide variety of sounds, but they always sound like a Smith bass.

How have neck shapes changed over the years in terms of spacing and profile (if at all)?.. Slightly as you can see if you look at basses 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30 years old. Sometimes it's the wood, the carver, the design. Too broad of a question to really answers because of the variables involved. No two necks are 100% alike. They are made by hand. Spacing however is done with the Nut and Bridge. That stays the same but different periods in the beggining we had somewhat of a learning curve to go through.

What influenced your pursuit of this sound?.. Playing a 300 year old Italian Bass that was superior in its class inspired me to find its mate in an Electric bass. I ended up starting this company to do so. The rest is history.

Roy Diza

05-28-2011, 11:52 PM

Compliments to Ken for making this thread a thoroughly enjoyable read. You pretty much covered all the facts and myths between yourself and Mr. Fodera. I would like to add that your basses were and still is basses of my dreams.
Having only being able to afford second hand beauties, which are a 1997 BSR6P and a 2002 BSR5EG, I hope to someday own one that would be of my specification with your guidance of course.
You're truly one of the bass building pioneers that has influence many of your contemporary both old school and new. Of all the builders, who of them would you respect the most, both professionally and personally?

I'm much honored to have played your masterpieces through my years of playing bass and I wish you continued success.

Ken Smith

05-29-2011, 12:14 AM

Of all the builders, who of them would you respect the most, both professionally and personally?

Who ever shows respect, gets respect. I don't believe in most of the ideas builders are using today (or yesterday) to either try something different to be fashionable or to copy those that do. Anyone can glue pieces of wood together. Not all of them can make real professional working musical instruments and even less make them comfortable.

Having worked 20 years as a professional bassist freelancing in NYC (is there a tougher 'nut' to crack?) before and during the start of my business, I know what feels good and does the job. My goal was and still is to make real instruments, not toys or gimmicks. If they look pretty, that's a plus. If not, close your eyes and use your ears. Like when you listen to music!;)

I am sorry to say that this is not a question I can answer in a jovial manner patting every other person on the back making things with strings or kiss any butts. There is so much garbage in this business (and every other business) that it gets harder each day to look in a magazine or pictures on line of what people are making these days. I hope they are having fun doing it because many of them are and will be in the long run their own biggest fans.

Remember the movie with (Harrison Ford) the 'Holy Grail' cup? It was the plain one, not any of the fancy ones.

Also, listen to a thousand great bass recordings. Now go make a bass that can be used to duplicate that. The unemployment line has more bassists doing tricks then those that can just play the bass. My goal again is making working instruments, not circus attractions.:eek: .. Be true to your art, or get a day job.. lol:p

Roy Diza

05-29-2011, 11:41 AM

Well said, Ken. The history of your basses is very fascinating. Could you enlighten us on this early piece? You guys probably recognize it as being listed currently on one of those auction sites. It's also missing a big chunk of wood in the control area, which looks to be a very involved expensive repair job. I do apologize for the tiny pics. I tried my best to have them larger to no avail:

:eek: .. Be true to your art, or get a day job.. lol:p

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g30/Bassconbeatz/Fodera%20Emperor%205%20Elite/KGrHqMOKikE3HNh955sBN1qYRiP_14.jpg

Tim Bishop

05-29-2011, 12:33 PM

...."The unemployment line has more bassists doing tricks then those that can just play the bass".....Lol! I wish I could've thought of and claim that line as my own: So true.

Ken Smith

05-29-2011, 01:04 PM

Could you enlighten us on this early piece? You guys probably recognize it as being listed currently on one of those auction sites. It's also missing a big chunk of wood in the control area, which looks to be a very involved expensive repair job. I do apologize for the tiny pics. I tried my best to have them larger to no avail:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g30/Bassconbeatz/Fodera%20Emperor%205%20Elite/KGrHqMOKikE3HNh955sBN1qYRiP_14.jpg

Looks like the first bass we made for Anthony Jackson. It seems as if it was used to smash a wall down. That was no accident. The Ebay seller claims it's an easy repair. Well, I can't see a way to repair splintered wood. It needs a new pair of body wings made so they will match. Then after all is done, the bass would have to be re-finished so the finish all matches as well. No easy repair there. You can save the neck, machines, pickups and bridge. Did I miss anything?

That bass was actually re-made 2 or 3 times. That body had semi-hollow cavities in it to reduce weight. The first body didn't. The first make of the bass had the old Circuit with the big control plate and then that was re-done with special made pots. Then, we put I believe a simple bass/treble circuit in the bass in the end. The bass was first made in 1981 and then fully completed in its unbroken state in 1982 with all the modifications. I am not sure when we put the BT circuit in it. Could have been a year later, I can't remember.

Then someone had to go and smash it. A shame. We made two basses like that. Bill Dickens got the 2nd one. We also made another Bass for Anthony a few years later with a completely different design. Some of the things requested by Anthony were against my better judgment but he insisted.

The Next 6's we made were the BT line and they have held their place in history. John Patitucci got one of the rack meaning, the one he tried was sold before he could send money and agreed in advance he would take the other bass if the first one sold before, which it did.

Musicians often have ideas of their own. Unfortunately, not all ideas are worth cutting up wood for. Anthony's 2nd bass was beautiful but I would have never made anything like it, body or head in design. He also wanted the bass to be his own one-of-a-kind that no one else would ever have.

Rory Lane

05-31-2011, 08:24 PM

How was the 7 string developed? How much did you collaborate with Melvin Davis on his signature model? Is there any difference between BSR7EG and MD Signature model?

Ken Smith

06-01-2011, 12:46 AM

How was the 7 string developed? How much did you collaborate with Melvin Davis on his signature model? Is there any difference between BSR7EG and MD Signature model?

The 7 was Melvin's request and we had to use Bubinga for the fingerboards to have something wide enough without cutting up ebony top wood sets.

I personally modified the neck taper jig to cut the wider 7 string neck and keeping it uniform. The body then was a bit like the BMT.

Both Melvin Davis and Al Turner had ordered custom basses around the same time and these body designs later became the BMT and then the BSR.

If not for Melvin's 'strong' request back then, we may have never made a 7-string. On his, we used an old jig for fret slotting and made them with more frets, 28 or 30 maybe? I don't remember. I will have to ask Melvin to count them.

After those two 7s, we didn't make any for awhile. I might have used Morado for a few fingerboards but again, I don't remember. I had asked my ebony fb supplier to cut a quantity of boards to make 7s but in a length for my slotting saw of only 24 frets.

To date, my records show that we made 50 Elite 7-strings. Two of them first for Melvin of his design and the other 48, the current BSR model. There may have been a Black Tiger in there or Fusion cut but the model was basically the same. We still make 7s when ordered and I we just made two of them, one for an order and one for stock.

The difference between the first two were mainly the body wings and number of frets. Also, the pickups were in design at that time which we since have standardized and settled on the flattop design after the first few basses were made. The ones we make now are the best work we have ever produced. But, I have said that for years and years now so what we make now is the best of what we have made if not the same.;)

Roy Diza

06-09-2011, 12:36 AM

Many of your innovations are well documented through the history of Ken Smith Basses, but of all the ones you implemented, which ones are you most proud of?

Ken Smith

08-22-2011, 08:46 PM

Many of your innovations are well documented through the history of Ken Smith Basses, but of all the ones you implemented, which ones are you most proud of?

Sorry I'm late. I missed this question.

I would say that each new model once all ironed out, I was proud of it coming to be. I have never been stuck on a single model because they all worked and they still work. Just different ideas and versions of similar ideas. Adding strings is not necessarily a new model in my eyes. Just a modification or addition to its 'parent' model if we can use that description.

Moving forward I think the BSR was my favorite model as it had a bit of everything in it. It has half of the BT in it and some of the BMT as well. I usually sit when I play and almost always did. My playing tastes as far as body styles might not be the same as yours. When the BMT came, I put a few ideas that had been in the drawer into one bass. Then, perfecting it was the BSR which looks good with the point or the curve like the Fusion model we make.

As far as other 'little' things on the bass, from a players viewpoint of having worked with bass in hand 5-7 days a week on average I do listen to players requests but must be realistic and compare them to my own thoughts as far as practicality goes. Making a bass with custom features is an expensive task but changing a model by adding something may not be a smart move in the long run for all players.

Keeping the basses affordable within reason is a big concern of mine.

Ken Smith

09-18-2011, 05:11 PM

I Thought it would be time to post this here since I can't go there and make the corrections. Anyone here is welcomed to go on TB and copy/paste my corrections. Just a few here, nothing major but the facts are just wrong. I will post the phrase, correction and a link to that Post/Thread on TB so you can see and respond there (or here) if you like.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From; http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f31/day-bg-took-over-804815/index6.html#post11493393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Higdon http://tb1.talkbasscdn.com/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f31/day-bg-took-over-804815-post11493005/#post11493005)
Dare I point this out? One former TB member was right in the thick of things, playing jazz on DB and switching to BG back when it was getting off the ground: Ken Smith.

"I remember that Ken was apprenticing for Carl Thompson back in the 70's. Carl had a shop (and still does) on Court street at his house in Brooklyn. Carl's musical heros are Jim Hall, Johnny Smith and Jackie Paris. Carl was a jazz guitarist who made the switch to electric bass late. When you say in the thick of things, is this what you mean, Don? His apprenticeship with Carl Thompson?"

Ah, I was never an apprentice of Carl Thompson or anyone else for that matter. I knew Carl, been to both the shops he had (NYC and Brooklyn) and even played a Duo gig with him once. I also borrowed his Band-saw once to make Spool Clamps cutting Pine Circles out for the clamps. I hung out at the shop socially as well in the early '70s in NYC when he started the shop but was NEVER his apprentice. I can see how one might think that shooting in the dark but with this lights on, we were just friends.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From my buddy Don Higdon's mention of me being an early Doubler; http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f31/day-bg-took-over-804815/index6.html#post11493827
Quote:
Originally Posted by salcott http://tb1.talkbasscdn.com/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f31/day-bg-took-over-804815/index6.html#post11493827)
Ken was active in the early 50s?

"Yes, he was very active, because that's when he was born.
On the basis of what he's said, he was in the NYC scene in the late 60's. He did start on DB and switch later. I'm sure he played DB when he was with Silver.
Steve Swallow didn't switch until 1970: Cranshaw was playing DB in the 60's, I don't know what year he switched. In any event, there were not that many BG's in jazz for years after the Fender was introduced."

I actually played my Fender 'P' bass with Horace Silver that I had scraped (literally) the Frets down flush with the Fretboard leaving only the Tang (the part that holds the Fret in the wood) showing as lines for the notes/positions.

I thank Don for mentioning that about me even with that minor correction. ;)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From a common error in the Smith/Fodera history; http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/you-opinion-anthony-jacksons-philosophy-six-string-bass-808356/index4.html#post11484579

"If I remember well the article in Bass Player mag, AJ said he wanted to go lower and lower while he was doing walking bass and he was struggling when going higher because he had to move up the neck on the G string. Carl Thombson didn't want his name associated with his crazy idea so he made what exacly AJ wanted resulting in a failliure. Ken Smith get what the idea of AJ more but it wasn't until Joey and Vinnie Fodera quit Ken Smith to make Fodera bass that the idea of AJ became really well made."

Ok, Joey (Lauricella) NEVER worked FOR me or for Ken Smith Basses. He was a customer in the first few years we produced basses and had bought about 5 basses from me at my Apartment/Shop on 13th street. He also brought a customer or two over to buy basses as well but not as a salesman either. Just to bring a friend over to buy. Later, he partnered with Fodera when I sold the shop and most of its contents to Vinnie and his two partners, Joey being one of them. We had unfinished basses, necks and body parts started and some orders to fill so I contracted them (mainly thru the 3rd partner of a short while that actually handled the business who is no longer there so I wont mention his name) to finish what was started so I could deliver the orders promised. In that time, I set up shop in PA by 1985 so the contracting phase between Fodera and Smith was less than 3 years. Less than 200 of the first bass carcasses (I finished up all the Basses on 13th street at my place in the City) were made in Brooklyn NY in 3 different shops and one in the City where we made some Neck and Body Billets and brought them to Brooklyn, not all by, with or thru Vinnie but the much of that NY basses were done with Vinnie in some part. All the rest (6,000+) have been made in my shop in PA.

No comment here from me on that authors opinions, just the facts!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

History is history and facts are facts. Not all of history is correct. If you have ever heard the phrase "if it is written, it is true", then you will understand why I prefer to correct errors, mis-truths and outright lies while I am still here on this earth to do so. Many people, products and litterateurs we have read and learned from has not had the same privilege in the lifetime of the named persons, products or claimed occurrences. I feel it is my obligation to set the record straight no matter how big or small.

Your replies and discussions are welcomed here.

Steven Freitas

09-27-2011, 02:44 PM

A lot of stuff put up on forums and on the internet in general result
from hearsay, gossip, and second hand interpretations of what someone
else said. By the time the original statement gets to the last recipient, the
whole message changes.

Bottom line, I rather go to the source than rely on someone else's interpretation.

Ken, I understand. Posted up something on that forum the other day, then got
a message that the moderator had to "approve" the statement before it could post. Nothing in my statement met any of the "not approved" criteria, so why
the censorship?

I don't get it.

fernandobicho

11-16-2011, 08:47 AM

Hello! Great answer. I never liked signature models.

Desmund Nichols

10-31-2012, 07:04 PM

I read somewhere (probably Wikipedia) that you are the first Luthier to SUCCESSFULLY build an operating Contrabass. My question is how come you stopped making them?

Joshua Phelps

10-31-2012, 08:05 PM

Sooooo people are still rehashing these old stories after all these years? Was there even any REAL falling out?

Ken Smith

10-31-2012, 10:28 PM

I read somewhere (probably Wikipedia) that you are the first Luthier to SUCCESSFULLY build an operating Contrabass. My question is how come you stopped making them?

Contra-Bass is just another name for a 6-string bass. That's what Anthony Jackson calls it. Your bass on order will be a contra-bass as well by his description. It is just a name.

In old instruments centuries ago, when the violin family developed and replaced the Viols, the Cello was the bass voice. The Double Bass was pitched an octave lower when it was finally developed as an orchestral instrument.

When you read bass music, you are transposing up from one octave lower. The Tuba reads the music 'written' an octave lower at the regular Pitch. The actual pitch of the C note 2 ledger lines below the staff is the C on your A-string, 3rd fret (if it's fretted). But, when you read that note for bass, it is the second space on the staff. That note read by a piano or tuba would sound an octave higher. The lowest note on the cello is that low C below the staff. We play the exact same note and pitch on the 2nd space. If we play the low C on a B-string, first fret, it sounds an octave lower than the cello, hence, the double bass, or contra-bass.

So, here endith the lesson, for now! ;)

Ken Smith

10-31-2012, 11:18 PM

Sooooo people are still rehashing these old stories after all these years? Was there even any REAL falling out?

My relationship with CT had nothing ever to do with VF. Totally different time periods. I don't know about a falling out with Carl. That is news to me. I did ask him before I started my company if he was interested in my design when we worked together on a personal bass that became my proto-proto-type but he and his partner Joel were not interested. That was the end of that. I brought many people to Carl over the years for repairs and a bass or two. I have nothing against him and never did. I think we were friends to a degree. I have more stories to tell but it serves no purpose on this subject. I was around him quite a bit in the early-mid '70s and he was always nice to me, personally and in business.

On the other person or company mentioned, what was agreed on when I sold him/them(Vinnie, Joey and Alex) the shop contents back in 1983 and what actually happened is not exactly as I expected. When you have a business with partners, what one guy 'says' or promises might not be what actually happens.

Judge the Smith basses for what the are, how they play, how the sound and the various features and details that go into them. Compare the products themselves. Not the advertising or players that use them. Many basses have been given away for free or nearly free at the expense of the general buyer by some companies so would be customers think that is a choice made by the player. If you have a Smith bass and have a visible presence around the world playing one and someone comes and offers you a bass for free, would you take it or play the bass you think is better without being told all the names on the roster they have?

I don't chase after players to sell basses. It's tacky and immature. If that's how they have to survive, then that's their business method, not mine.

Those of you that have called me, emailed me or came for a visit know that I answer all your questions and even go beyond that to explain and even teach why some things are the way they are with Smith basses. The things I read on TB that some say about me are often widely exaggerated or outright false. Talk about the bashing bandwagon. That's one of the main reasons I was banned there. For defending myself and telling the Mods how great a job they were NOT doing. Telling a Mod anything bad is an offense there. So, I had my hands tied, broke loose in a way and told one of the Mods what I thought, in Private. I am not some corporate Billboard. I am a person running a business but most of all, a Person. I play Bass. That is why I am here to begin with in this business. If I was not a professional bassist in NYC, this product would have never come about.

Think for a minute what may have spawned from my models, designs and ideas in basses today around the world. Imagine the bass world if I had never stepped into it!

When you have called here, I took your call if I was near my office and answered all your questions. If you emailed, I gave you all the facts as soon as I could email you back. Sometimes, it's not what one want's to hear. That I can't help. I am not a customer service agent 'yessing' you on everything you say so you the customer is always right. I am the owner and founder of this company and I can only explain what we do and don't do. Sometimes we can bend a little on what we make but in selling a model, or any of the models, to get the results WE expect, I have to be the final word on what we will do or will not do.

I was listening on the news last night just after the storm (Sandy) and NJ Gov. Christie on hearing the Prez.(Obama) was coming to look at the damage, the Gov. said he doesn't care about that or presidential politics now. Something like, 'If you know me, you know I don't give a .....' along those lines about who's coming. "right now (he said), we have to help the people without power and homes and food and shelter etc."

Now, I am not trying to compare myself to Gov. Christie in any way other than to point out, when you have things to do, you have to get them done. When I get questions, I answer them. I do NOT sell Dreams or Promises. I don't hold hands either. We make basses and the website shows countless pictured examples of our work with plenty of text to go with it. Youtube has tons of videos of guys with Smith basses as well. That is advertising you just can't buy. Let me say now a BIG Thank You to all those making videos on YT and FB as well. It's a joy for me personally seeing people play and love their Smith basses enough to put themselves on-line playing one and even talking about it on occasion. Thanks Guys AND Gals.. A few Girls I know play them too..

I can easily have a sweet sounding cust. service girl on the phone here that will take your messages (or not) and then explain in her words what I told her to say and how to answer a technical question but after trying that approach for years (with guys too), too much misinformation went out. Wouldn't you rather the first answer be the accurate one? That's why I take all the calls on basses now. It cuts out most of the confusion if not all of it.

I guess you need to think, 'how can I get my work done here talking all day (or night) on the phone or on the computer and get the basses made as well?' Right?

The answer is 'short and sweet', but not always sweet. I want you to get the correct information to your questions but I am not so good at buttering them up. That is something people might say about me, 'short and to the point'. After 50 emails in a day, it doesn't seem short to me.

On people asking for parts for other basses or mods to current Smith basses, old and current models, I tell you all that I know. It's free. You just have to ask. :cool:

Bryan L Williams

11-01-2012, 12:18 AM

In old instruments centuries ago, when the violin family developed and replaced the Viols, the Cello was the bass voice. The Double Bass was pitched an octave lower when it was finally developed as an orchestral instrument.

When you read bass music, you are transposing up from one octave lower. The Tuba reads the music 'written' an octave lower at the regular Pitch. The actual pitch of the C note 2 ledger lines below the staff is the C on your A-string, 3rd fret (if it's fretted). But, when you read that note for bass, it is the second space on the staff. That note read by a piano or tuba would sound an octave higher. The lowest note on the cello is that low C below the staff. We play the exact same note and pitch on the 2nd space. If we play the low C on a B-string, first fret, it sounds an octave lower than the cello, hence, the double bass, or contra-bass.

So, tuning a 4-string "bass" CGDA (one octave below a cello) would seem to be the way to go...a Contracello.

Ken Smith

11-01-2012, 12:28 AM

So, tuning a 4-string "bass" CGDA (one octave below a cello) would seem to be the way to go...a Contracello.

Not unless you wanna stretch your fingers like never before and or pivoting and shifting more than on a regular tuned bass.

EADG from the bottom is the standard now for 100 years or so but in use even longer. Low B on a 5er and low C on an Extension 4'er. That's what 99+% of the bass players in the world use.

Desmund Nichols

11-01-2012, 12:31 AM

My relationship with CT had nothing ever to do with VF. Totally different time periods. I don't know about a falling out with Carl. That is news to me. I did ask him before I started my company if he was interested in my design when we worked together on a personal bass that became my proto-proto-type but he and his partner Joel were not interested. That was the end of that. I brought many people to Carl over the years for repairs and a bass or two. I have nothing against him and never did. I think we were friends to a degree. I have more stories to tell but it serves no purpose on this subject. I was around him quite a bit in the early-mid '70s and he was always nice to me, personally and in business.

On the other person or company mentioned, what was agreed on when I sold him/them(Vinnie, Joey and Alex) the shop contents back in 1983 and what actually happened is not exactly as I expected. When you have a business with partners, what one guy 'says' or promises might not be what actually happens.

Judge the Smith basses for what the are, how they play, how the sound and the various features and details that go into them. Compare the products themselves. Not the advertising or players that use them. Many basses have been given away for free or nearly free at the expense of the general buyer by some companies so would be customers think that is a choice made by the player. If you have a Smith bass and have a visible presence around the world playing one and someone comes and offers you a bass for free, would you take it or play the bass you think is better without being told all the names on the roster they have?

I don't chase after players to sell basses. It's tacky and immature. If that's how they have to survive, then that's their business method, not mine.

Those of you that have called me, emailed me or came for a visit know that I answer all your questions and even go beyond that to explain and even teach why some things are the way they are with Smith basses. The things I read on TB that some say about me are often widely exaggerated or outright false. Talk about the bashing bandwagon. That's one of the main reasons I was banned there. For defending myself and telling the Mods how great a job they were NOT doing. Telling a Mod anything bad is an offense there. So, I had my hands tied, broke loose in a way and told one of the Mods what I thought, in Private. I am not some corporate Billboard. I am a person running a business but most of all, a Person. I play Bass. That is why I am here to begin with in this business. If I was not a professional bassist in NYC, this product would have never come about.

Think for a minute what may have spawned from my models, designs and ideas in basses today around the world. Imagine the bass world if I had never stepped into it!

When you have called here, I took your call if I was near my office and answered all your questions. If you emailed, I gave you all the facts as soon as I could email you back. Sometimes, it's not what one want's to hear. That I can't help. I am not a customer service agent 'yessing' you on everything you say so you the customer is always right. I am the owner and founder of this company and I can only explain what we do and don't do. Sometimes we can bend a little on what we make but in selling a model, or any of the models, to get the results WE expect, I have to be the final word on what we will do or will not do.

I was listening on the news last night just after the storm (Sandy) and NJ Gov. Christie on hearing the Prez.(Obama) was coming to look at the damage, the Gov. said he doesn't care about that or presidential politics now. Something like, 'If you know me, you know I don't give a .....' along those lines about who's coming. "right now (he said), we have to help the people without power and homes and food and shelter etc."

Now, I am not trying to compare myself to Gov. Christie in any way other than to point out, when you have things to do, you have to get them done. When I get questions, I answer them. I do NOT sell Dreams or Promises. I don't hold hands either. We make basses and the website shows countless pictured examples of our work with plenty of text to go with it. Youtube has tons of videos of guys with Smith basses as well. That is advertising you just can't buy. Let me say now a BIG Thank You to all those making videos on YT and FB as well. It's a joy for me personally seeing people play and love their Smith basses enough to put themselves on-line playing one and even talking about it on occasion. Thanks Guys AND Gals.. A few Girls I know play them too..

I can easily have a sweet sounding cust. service girl on the phone here that will take your messages (or not) and then explain in her words what I told her to say and how to answer a technical question but after trying that approach for years (with guys too), too much misinformation went out. Wouldn't you rather the first answer be the accurate one? That's why I take all the calls on basses now. It cuts out most of the confusion if not all of it.

I guess you need to think, 'how can I get my work done here talking all day (or night) on the phone or on the computer and get the basses made as well?' Right?

The answer is 'short and sweet', but not always sweet. I want you to get the correct information to your questions but I am not so good at buttering them up. That is something people might say about me, 'short and to the point'. After 50 emails in a day, it doesn't seem short to me.

On people asking for parts for other basses or mods to current Smith basses, old and current models, I tell you all that I know. It's free. You just have to ask. :cool:

Always helped me out. Surprisingly, you are available to chat on the phone and stuff. I been to the shop a couple of times, and it was a good time. I never been on a tour though, I keep forgetting. Sometimes I feel guilty asking all the questions because I figure he isnt building while he is on the phone, or internet, or discussing in person. I must say, Ken does a good job juggling running a business, building, discussing, and answering questions. I always enjoy it. If I lived closer, I would probably go by more often. I drive a Jeep, and have never spoke with the CEO of Daimler Chrysler. I have an iPad and never spoke to Steve Jobs. I play a Smith bass, and I deal directly with Ken Smith, its a good feeling. I look forward to my next visit. My pot (if thats the hole I put the cable in) is acting up again, so I have to make a visit soon.

Not for nothing, its a good thing I don't live that close, because I would want to just make random visits to the shop to check on my bass on order, and we all know how annoying that is. :D

Joshua Phelps

11-01-2012, 12:38 AM

I do strongly dislike when companies give basses away to high profile players then charge much less know players & hobists $10.000 & a 1 year waiting period for a very average bass. That's one thing I've always liked about smith basses is they dont give them away. That & they are great basses for a very reasonable price.

Desmund Nichols

11-01-2012, 12:40 AM

Joshua Phelps

11-01-2012, 12:57 AM

So all those guys get a free "signature" bass? I never knew that.

Hey desmund,

I have no idea that's just the rumor.

Desmund Nichols

11-01-2012, 01:18 AM

I can't wait 16 months for a bass. A lot can happen in that time period. Have a child, buy a house, relocate, lose interest, go broke, too much can happen.

Tim Bishop

11-01-2012, 06:37 AM

My relationship with CT had nothing ever to do with VF. Totally different time periods. I don't know about a falling out with Carl. That is news to me. I did ask him before I started my company if he was interested in my design when we worked together on a personal bass that became my proto-proto-type but he and his partner Joel were not interested. That was the end of that. I brought many people to Carl over the years for repairs and a bass or two. I have nothing against him and never did. I think we were friends to a degree. I have more stories to tell but it serves no purpose on this subject. I was around him quite a bit in the early-mid '70s and he was always nice to me, personally and in business.

On the other person or company mentioned, what was agreed on when I sold him/them(Vinnie, Joey and Alex) the shop contents back in 1983 and what actually happened is not exactly as I expected. When you have a business with partners, what one guy 'says' or promises might not be what actually happens.

Judge the Smith basses for what the are, how they play, how the sound and the various features and details that go into them. Compare the products themselves. Not the advertising or players that use them. Many basses have been given away for free or nearly free at the expense of the general buyer by some companies so would be customers think that is a choice made by the player. If you have a Smith bass and have a visible presence around the world playing one and someone comes and offers you a bass for free, would you take it or play the bass you think is better without being told all the names on the roster they have?

I don't chase after players to sell basses. It's tacky and immature. If that's how they have to survive, then that's their business method, not mine.

Those of you that have called me, emailed me or came for a visit know that I answer all your questions and even go beyond that to explain and even teach why some things are the way they are with Smith basses. The things I read on TB that some say about me are often widely exaggerated or outright false. Talk about the bashing bandwagon. That's one of the main reasons I was banned there. For defending myself and telling the Mods how great a job they were NOT doing. Telling a Mod anything bad is an offense there. So, I had my hands tied, broke loose in a way and told one of the Mods what I thought, in Private. I am not some corporate Billboard. I am a person running a business but most of all, a Person. I play Bass. That is why I am here to begin with in this business. If I was not a professional bassist in NYC, this product would have never come about.

Think for a minute what may have spawned from my models, designs and ideas in basses today around the world. Imagine the bass world if I had never stepped into it!

When you have called here, I took your call if I was near my office and answered all your questions. If you emailed, I gave you all the facts as soon as I could email you back. Sometimes, it's not what one want's to hear. That I can't help. I am not a customer service agent 'yessing' you on everything you say so you the customer is always right. I am the owner and founder of this company and I can only explain what we do and don't do. Sometimes we can bend a little on what we make but in selling a model, or any of the models, to get the results WE expect, I have to be the final word on what we will do or will not do.

I was listening on the news last night just after the storm (Sandy) and NJ Gov. Christie on hearing the Prez.(Obama) was coming to look at the damage, the Gov. said he doesn't care about that or presidential politics now. Something like, 'If you know me, you know I don't give a .....' along those lines about who's coming. "right now (he said), we have to help the people without power and homes and food and shelter etc."

Now, I am not trying to compare myself to Gov. Christie in any way other than to point out, when you have things to do, you have to get them done. When I get questions, I answer them. I do NOT sell Dreams or Promises. I don't hold hands either. We make basses and the website shows countless pictured examples of our work with plenty of text to go with it. Youtube has tons of videos of guys with Smith basses as well. That is advertising you just can't buy. Let me say now a BIG Thank You to all those making videos on YT and FB as well. It's a joy for me personally seeing people play and love their Smith basses enough to put themselves on-line playing one and even talking about it on occasion. Thanks Guys AND Gals.. A few Girls I know play them too..

I can easily have a sweet sounding cust. service girl on the phone here that will take your messages (or not) and then explain in her words what I told her to say and how to answer a technical question but after trying that approach for years (with guys too), too much misinformation went out. Wouldn't you rather the first answer be the accurate one? That's why I take all the calls on basses now. It cuts out most of the confusion if not all of it.

I guess you need to think, 'how can I get my work done here talking all day (or night) on the phone or on the computer and get the basses made as well?' Right?

The answer is 'short and sweet', but not always sweet. I want you to get the correct information to your questions but I am not so good at buttering them up. That is something people might say about me, 'short and to the point'. After 50 emails in a day, it doesn't seem short to me.

On people asking for parts for other basses or mods to current Smith basses, old and current models, I tell you all that I know. It's free. You just have to ask. :cool:
Besides the great basses he makes, the above statement from Ken is one of those things I love: No BS and get it straight. Amazing how one can be offended with truth and facts. Bottom line: If you don't get the answer or hear what you'd expect or want, than go elsewhere to get it. Oh, you'll get it and you won't have to look far. Those folks are a dime-a-dozen. Good luck with that.

And don't even get me started on the 'Endorsement King's and Queen's' out there. Unless they are proven, could not be more unimpressed with "Signature" model instruments or the names tied to them.