Bohemian Bass

[Eric Hochberg]

I thought I would contribute to this forum with some info on a bass I purchased in April, 06 after a two year search. After visiting shops in NY, Boston, Cincinatti, ISB Convention and elsewhere, I found this instrument here at home in Chicago. It was previously owned by Harold Siegal, a well known orchestral, studio, pop musician and bass teacher in the Chicago area who at 92, is now retired. According to my luthier, Scott Henrie who was a student of his, this was one of Harold's three or four instruments, and "Harold always had good sounding basses". The inside label is faded and dirty but you can make out "Bohemia" and not much else except for the typical "Antoni...". Scott believes it's 100-115 years old.

When I bought it, it needed setting up with a recut bridge, new reset adjusters, dressed and reglued fingerboard, recut nut, new soundpost, tailwire and an extensive touch up as it was very scratched up, worn and discolored, I'm guessing from many generations of bass students and poor past touchups. We've also been experimenting with the position of the tailpiece and bridge location. While it was pretty much unplayable when I bought it, the little playing I could do on it told me that it really had a sound, and because the instrument was solid, I decided to take a chance on it. The bass came out very well and has a very even, punchy and full jazz pizz sound, and to my ear, sweet arco sound, top to bottom.

[Charlie Hack]

Nice bass! Did you have the abalone dots inlaid in the fingerboard, or did it come like that? I would really like to have dots put in my bass's 'board at the octave, fifth above, and second octave marks. I usually just pencil them in, but they come in handy. Your bass is quite similar to mine in shape and dimension, right down to the rib linings and cheek plates on the scroll. I'll post pics and a detailed description of mine later. Something about those old german basses... When I was looking for a bass to replace my student laminated job, i went to Steven Reilly's shop in Lansing, MI and David Gage in NY, and I tried everything in my price range, old and new. Only a few basses 'felt like home', and they were all 100-150 years old and German. These instruments are the workhorses of the bass world. Cheers,

Charlie

[Eric Hochberg]

Thanks, Charlie. The "Abalone" dots are really just stick-on labels that I cut for temporary use as I get used to the Eb neck (after 34 years of D neck!). They work fine and look ok from a distance so I probably won't install permanent markers. When they get worn, I just replace them.

[Ken Smith]

Thanks, Charlie. The "Abalone" dots are really just stick-on labels that I cut for temporary use as I get used to the Eb neck (after 34 years of D neck!). They work fine and look ok from a distance so I probably won't install permanent markers. When they get worn, I just replace them.

Where do you get these stick on dots. I need some for this new monster (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Storioni/Storioni.htm) I am playing.

[Eric Hochberg]

I used a hole puncher on some labels to create the dots. Coincidently, the labels I used came in a mailing from the AFM and are photos of various instruments. So far, I've been using the darker colored areas for the markers. By the way, Ken, your new bass looks amazing.

[Charlie Hack]

Here's my new (old) bass. @100-120 years old, German, unknown maker. I first played it at David Gage's shop back around Thanksgiving. I spent an afternoon there playing everything, and this is the bass that ended up fitting me best. It's got a thick, warm sound and is even all the way to the very top. Its sound in the thumb positions is very clear and focused, but still warm. It's strung up with Obligatos. This is a do-it-all bass, perfect because I play a lot of Jazz and Solo and some Orchestral music. When it got to my house and I took it out of its case and started to play, I had a total lightbulb moment-- it just clicked immediately-- 'that's my sound'. It's exactly what I had been looking for. Now it needs a name...suggestions?

Charlie

P.S. apologies for the small pictures-- the utility wouldn't let me upload the big pictures because they were too large.

[Mike Smith]

P.S. apologies for the small pictures-- the utility wouldn't let me upload the big pictures because they were too large.

I've addressed this problem by allowing the use of larger sized images in terms of height/width and also how much space it requires on disk. Can find out more about this in the new thread I created on adding images (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=100) :)

[Eric Hochberg]

Now it needs a name...suggestions?


I named mine after the previous owner, Harold! I think our basses are cousins.

[Ken Smith]

I think that Bohemia refers to the area near Prague in central Czech and not near the German border. This Bass of your is clearly a Germanic Bass regardless of which side of the border it was made on. Bohemian Basses have a different look that the German Shop Basses which this one has the look of. Shoenbach was the area that bordered these two countries. Markneukirchen was another area close by where these were made as well as Bebenroth. Mittenwald also made some as well.

Clear signs are the outer linings, the basic shape, the spirit varnish and the tuners. All signs of early 20th century shop basses from the German/Czech region. These basses have been imported into USA for at least the last 80 years and carry various labels in them or none at all.

For more on this, see this section; http://www.smithbassforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17

This is what old Bohemian basses look like by the way as far as what I have learned;
http://www.contrabass.co.uk/images/spring98_3.gif http://www.contrabass.co.uk/images/instruments/2454/2454back.jpg
http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_03/Laske_1799/Laske_01_front.jpg http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_03/Anonym_Prag_1850-01/Anonym_01_front.jpg
http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_04/Prag-ca-1800/01-Prag-front.jpg http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_04/Prag-ca-1800/09-Prag-scroll-side-left.jpg
http://catalogue.kort-basses.com/50/kleine/IMG_1306.jpg http://catalogue.kort-basses.com/50/kleine/IMG_1308.jpg

These Basses all have a handmade look rather than a factory 'one-size-fits-all' that we see more often.

[Eric Hochberg]

I think that Bohemia refers to the area near Prague in central Czech and not near the German border. This Bass of your is clearly a Germanic Bass regardless of which side of the border it was made on. Bohemian Basses have a different look that the German Shop Basses which this one has the look of.

So, the terms Bohemian, German, French, etc. really are used to define style, and not necessarily the actual location of manufacture? If my bass actually was made in Bohemia, as the label asserts, then it would be more accurately described as a German shop style bass made in Bohemia. Maybe Wilfer or another German maker had a shop in Bohemia.

[Ken Smith]

So, the terms Bohemian, German, French, etc. really are used to define style, and not necessarily the actual location of manufacture? If my bass actually was made in Bohemia, as the label asserts, then it would be more accurately described as a German shop style bass made in Bohemia. Maybe Wilfer or another German maker had a shop in Bohemia.

Do you think you could post pics of the Label? Then we can see if it was an export product or not. Handmade Basses in Bohemia should have the Label in its own native language like this; http://www.contrabass.co.uk/images/spring98_6.jpghttp://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_01/Hitzelberger_1853/11-hitzelberger-label.jpghttp://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_02/Rief/label.jpghttp://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_03/Laske_1799/Laske_11_label.jpghttp://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_03/Doser_1825/Doser_11_label.jpghttp://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrumente_03/Thumhard_1838/frei-11-thumhard-label.jpg

When you see a Label that says 'made in' written in English then it's usually a factory Bass made for export. Like this one;

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/MorelliBass/images/label.JPG

"Label Printed and Handwritten" Artist Deluxe Model (hand written script)
Andreas Morelli (printed in script)
Handmade Reproduction (printed in script)
Antonio Stradivarius (hand written script) Trade Mark Registered


A clear sign of a Bass that was made for the American market and possibly Labeled right here in USA after arriving.

[Eric Hochberg]

Here's the label. You can make out "Bohemia" to the right of the big stain. Maybe the circular logo looking mark on the far right will tell you something.

[Ken Smith]

I googled it and found this amongst other things;

"Czech Nationalism and NationhoodThe 19th cent. brought a rebirth of Czech nationalism. Under the leadership of Palacký (http://www.bartleby.com/65/pa/Palacky.html) a Slavic congress assembled at Prague in the Revolution of 1848, but by 1849, although the Czech peasantry had been emancipated, absolute Austrian domination had been forcibly restored. The establishment (1867) of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy (http://www.bartleby.com/65/au/AustroHu.html) thoroughly disappointed the Czech aspirations for wide political autonomy within a federalized Austria. Instead, the Czech lands were relegated to a mere province of the empire. Concessions were made (1879) by the Austrian minister Taaffe (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ta/Taaffe-E.html); Czechs entered the imperial bureaucracy and parliament at Vienna. However, many Czechs continued to advocate complete separation from the Hapsburg empire. 9Full independence was reached only at the end of World War I under the guidance of T. G. Masaryk (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ma/MasarykJ.html). In 1918, Bohemia became the core of the new state of Czechoslovakia (http://www.bartleby.com/65/cz/Czechosl.html). After the Munich Pact of 1938, Czechoslovakia was stripped of the so-called Sudeten area, which was annexed to Germany. In 1939, Bohemia was invaded by German troops and proclaimed part of the German protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. 10After World War II the pre-1938 boundaries were restored, and most of the German-speaking population was expelled. In 1948, Bohemia’s status as a province was abolished, and it was divided into nine administrative regions. The administrative reorganization of 1960 redivided it into five regions and the city of Prague. In 1969, Bohemia, along with Moravia and Czech Silesia, was incorporated into the Czech Socialist Republic, renamed the Czech Republic in 1990. The Czech Republic (http://www.bartleby.com/65/cz/CzechRep.html) became an independent state when Czechoslovakia was dissolved on Jan. 1, 1993." 11

[Ken Smith]

Here's the label. You can make out "Bohemia" to the right of the big stain. Maybe the circular logo looking mark on the far right will tell you something.

On the bottom of the label there looks to be two words. What does the first word say? I think the second is Bohemia.

This Strad label is typical of export made Basses from the German/Czech border. The name 'Bohemia' is not used that often on labels from what I have seen being it covers a large area from the German border to Prague and beyond as seen here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/B%C3%B6hmen_M%C3%A4hren_%C3%96sterreich_Schlesien. jpg) and here (http://feefhs.org/maps/ah/ah-bohem.html).

Personally I do not consider these types of Germanic style shop Basses as Bohemian just because they were made across the border. They look like are built like and sound like the same style German Basses from the early 20th century. I think using the name Bohemia on the Label is an attempt to add some type of mystique to the Bass as if to be of older handmade type Basses like those from Prague and the 19th century when Czech Basses looked like Czech Basses and not identical to German Basses.

In this country we have a handful of names that has been used on the labels after importing them which include Juzek, Morelli, Pfretzschner (http://www.smithbassforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17) etc. as mentioned earlier.

Even in Germany and throughout Europe they needed lower cost Basses for Schools, students and professionals that could not afford the handmade versions. Today we see these used for jazz and Pop music for two reasons. First, they sound thinner and amplify easier than a deep rich sounding Orchestral Classic Bass and two, the cost less because of it. For a moment, put yourself in the late 19th or early 20th century before Jazz ever existed but some of these Basses did and the Orchestra Pros in Germany preferred their Seitz, Neuner and Klotz style Basses. The Italians liked their domestic breed, the French Orchestra pros had the Bernadels, Gands and Jacquets and the English had the Dodds, Fendts and Lott Basses. Also, each country had some of each others classic Basses as well. So.. What to do with these factory or shop/cottage industry type Basses if they didn't sound so good in the Orchestra? Sell them to the students, Schools and those with less to spend. France also had there own factory/shop Basses but between the German/Czech border production and the Blockless wonders in the south, the world would soon be flooded with cheap Basses as it happened also with Violins that sold for as little as $5. 100 years ago and often with case and Bow.

Today, these Basses are from 40-80 years old on average (some older) and sound fairly good for todays Jazz players. For Orchestral playing, the demand is somewhat higher in terms of tone and evenness. Some modern makers out of the gate produce Basses sounding better than old shop Basses less its age, but that will come in time.

[Ken Smith]

Looking at your Bass I see the Gears seem identical to those on my Cut-Loveri. The Bass was cut down in 1937 and a new Scroll made. The Head was purfled all around and had some French type gears at first as seen by the holes under the current plates. Then these plates were put on sometime after 1937. On my Morelli, the last pic shown, they are nearly the same except for the screw holding the cog in place.

http://www.smithbassforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21&d=1170881344

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/Loveri/images/loveri_scrollE.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/DoubleBasses/MorelliBass/images/Lscroll.JPG

If the gears are original to the Bass and were new when installed, it is possible to date the instrument within a certain period if you know the date of the gears.

[Eric Hochberg]

Thanks for the history lesson, Ken (which is why I followed you to this forum). I'm surprised that you found similar tuners on your Loveri and Morelli basses, especially with the same flared cog screws. I have been wondering about those screws because of their unusual shape. Anyway, I may take the plates off the scroll and see what, if anything, is lurking underneath.

[Ken Smith]

Thanks for the history lesson, Ken (which is why I followed you to this forum). I'm surprised that you found similar tuners on your Loveri and Morelli basses, especially with the same flared cog screws. I have been wondering about those screws because of their unusual shape. Anyway, I may take the plates off the scroll and see what, if anything, is lurking underneath.

Just a quick fyi here. I am learning this stuff as I go along as well. I am not a historian by any means professionally but rather just very very interesting in knowing and finding things out.

Also, I in now way mean to discredit your Bass or any other Bass out there but rather find out the truth about dates and origins IF that is at all possible.

Maybe with time and patience we can all learn together.

[Eric Hochberg]

Also, I in now way mean to discredit your Bass or any other Bass out there but rather find out the truth about dates and origins IF that is at all possible.


My bass is what it is. I figured it to be a shop bass. In fact, it is similar to my Juzek labeled bass except for the Eb neck and shorter neck stand and much plainer wood. The neck measurements, in fact, seem to be identical. But, for jazz, it sounds really good (which is why I bought it) and records really well and I know this from playing lots of basses upwards into the $20's (Arnold's Ergo bass, for one, which I loved and thought sounded fantastic). If you feel my post should be in the 20th Century area of the forum, fine by me, and thanks for your time on this.

[Ken Smith]

My bass is what it is. I figured it to be a shop bass. In fact, it is similar to my Juzek labeled bass except for the Eb neck and shorter neck stand and much plainer wood. The neck measurements, in fact, seem to be identical. But, for jazz, it sounds really good (which is why I bought it) and records really well and I know this from playing lots of basses upwards into the $20's (Arnold's Ergo bass, for one, which I loved and thought sounded fantastic). If you feel my post should be in the 20th Century area of the forum, fine by me, and thanks for your time on this.

Well this Bass is on the fence as far as date and style. That's why I posted the Thread up to 1920 to cover the earlier 20th century Shop Basses and Blockless wonders as they are old Basses now, just not the handmade ones. This Thread is fine where it is. I did move one other Thread there but I would think that people here read everything so it doesn't matter much as long as it's close..:)

[stan haskins]

good thread - this is why I followed Ken over here, too . . .

Hey, Ken - I love the look of all those handmade Bohemians you posted. The bottom one (the fiver) looks a little off-kilter, like the shoulder on the bass side is higher than the shoulder on the treble side. Is that just a trick of the photograph, or is that on purpose - and if so, what purpose do you think it serves? (I imagine, if anything, it would make the bass harder to play . . .)

[Ken Smith]

good thread - this is why I followed Ken over here, too . . .

Hey, Ken - I love the look of all those handmade BOhemians you posted. The bottom one (the fiver) looks a little off-kilter, like the shoulder on the bass side is higher than the shoulder on the treble side. Is that just a trick of the photograph, or is that on purpose - and if so, what purpose do you think it serves? (I imagine, if anything, it would make the bass harder to play . . .)

I don't know. I just 'borrowed' those shots from a few websites in Europe namely Contrabass Shoppe, World of Basses and B.Kort. Maybe it was made or later cut like that. It's common to see cut-down Basses with uneven shoulders. I see it all the time and it is either done for the player or an accident of some sort. Just a guess on my part.

[Ken Smith]

here's what I believe to be a 19th century Bohemian Bass (http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/Bohemian/Bohemian.htm).

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/Bohemian/images/bohemian5.jpg