Which 'E' to match set?

[Calvin Marks]

I decided on recommendation of my luthier to purchase a set of Original Flexocores, and they work remarkably well with my bass. Dark, smooth and very powerful, especially the A string.

Although, I'm finding the E to be just excessively dark and "tubby". It speaks very slowly and doesn't have that growl I'm looking for. My luthier suggested a Permanent E or Spirocore Mittel.


Comments?

Thanks!

[Ken Smith]

I decided on recommendation of my luthier to purchase a set of Original Flexocores, and they work remarkably well with my bass. Dark, smooth and very powerful, especially the A string.

Although, I'm finding the E to be just excessively dark and "tubby". It speaks very slowly and doesn't have that growl I'm looking for. My luthier suggested a Permanent E or Spirocore Mittel.


Comments?

Thanks!

Is this the same new Bass you have been fiddling with since its completion to get it working right for you?

I have played all of these strings and do not like the Spiros mixed with any Flexs. The Permanent is brighter yes but not the same tonal quality up front. The Original Flatchrome might be a better match tonally but the A string of that Orig Flex set is so darn thick, the Perm might be the best tension wise to match.

New basses can take time to break in. Give it some time. All of this change may not be so good for your bass either.

[Brian Gencarelli]

I think that Bel Cantos would be a much better "break-in" set. I always feel it is better to go with a lighter gauge string for the first year. Play it in and then start working to find the "sound". You need to get the plates moving as much and as freely as possible. I think Flex's might "shut down" the sound a little more on a new bass.

IMHO
Brian

[Calvin Marks]

I think that Bel Cantos would be a much better "break-in" set. I always feel it is better to go with a lighter gauge string for the first year. Play it in and then start working to find the "sound". You need to get the plates moving as much and as freely as possible. I think Flex's might "shut down" the sound a little more on a new bass.

IMHO
Brian

I hate belcanto's. The man who made my bass suggested Original Flexocore's and they sound amazing.

[Brian Gencarelli]

I hate belcanto's. The man who made my bass suggested Original Flexocore's and they sound amazing.

Then I suggest using that set of strings. :cool: Obviously, they don't all sound great or you wouldn't be looking for an E String...

[Joel Larsson]

I remember Paul Ellison saying on a master class that Bel Canto was the best thing ever to happen to the E-string... I am under the impression that a fairly large number of players share his view there. That said, I think Ken is right that Flatchrome might be the best match. But, I play Eudoxa down there and Flatchrome on the top strings, and I have to say you adapt quickly to different types of strings. And yes, the Perm could be a wise choice as well. If you want the E to ring a bit more, I think you won't be too unhappy. I had a similar problem with Flexocor (only this was the solo 92's) and once I switched to a Permanent solo set, the bass totally came alive; the volume produced was truly tinnitus-inducing and the tubbiness down low had gotten way better. There are mixed feelings on the Perms in the double bass community, though...

[Ken Smith]

I remember Paul Ellison saying on a master class that Bel Canto was the best thing ever to happen to the E-string... I am under the impression that a fairly large number of players share his view there. That said, I think Ken is right that Flatchrome might be the best match. But, I play Eudoxa down there and Flatchrome on the top strings, and I have to say you adapt quickly to different types of strings. And yes, the Perm could be a wise choice as well. If you want the E to ring a bit more, I think you won't be too unhappy. I had a similar problem with Flexocor (only this was the solo 92's) and once I switched to a Permanent solo set, the bass totally came alive; the volume produced was truly tinnitus-inducing and the tubbiness down low had gotten way better. There are mixed feelings on the Perms in the double bass community, though...

But, I meant the 'Original' FlatChrome as it's now called, not the regular FlatChrome. The Origs. have the blue/white threads at the tail. The FCs have the red/white and are thinner gauged. The Orig. FCs by the way used to be called 'Eudoxa' FlatChromes aka then Eudoxa 'Steels' rather than the gut cored Eudoxa which is still made today.

My Gilkes is currently strung with the Orig.Flex G,D,A and an actual surviving Eudoxa FC Steel which I got from a TB member a few years ago. This is a C-Ext. string as well. It is probably not the exact same formula as the current Orig.FC but somewhat close I assume. This works fairly well and is the reason I suggested it.

For the reg.Flex 92 set I usually use a Stark E with or without an Ext. Pirastro no longer makes the E/C stark BUT, I have a bunch that I bought when I heard about them discontinuing the product. I have them listed for sale as well and this too could work with the Orig.G,D,A as well. At least as good as the Orig.FC or the Perm. depending on the tone you are shooting for and what works on your Bass.

How can you tell in advance what sting will work for whom and on which Bass? You can't and this is where trial and error becomes expensive. I had an English Hawkes pass thru my shop briefly for comparison which I helped a local friend obtain and that bass was strung with the Orig.Flexs all across with the E/C. These came on the Bass but were the same as he had had on his German Bass before switching to Stark Flexs across all the strings on my suggestion. He got a full new set of the Starks from me and put them on in the shop and the bass did seem darker and fuller sounding than it did with the Origs. On the other hand, I had used both Starks, reg.92s and reg. with Stark E/C on my Gilkes before putting this used set of Orig's on my Bass and I happen to like them, on that Bass I mean.

You never really know till you try it. I wonder if they have the same dilemmas with Violins thur Cellos? Probably not..:(

Oh, and on the Belcantos, I put a set on my Hart the other day and took off the Flex 92s and with the Extension Bel, I am quite impressed.;)

[Joel Larsson]

But, I meant the 'Original' FlatChrome as it's now called, not the regular FlatChrome. The Origs. have the blue/white threads at the tail. The FCs have the red/white and are thinner gauged. The Orig. FCs by the way used to be called 'Eudoxa' FlatChromes aka then Eudoxa 'Steels' rather than the gut cored Eudoxa which is still made today.

Gah, darn Pirastro and their string names. I also meant Original Flatchrome. All this name confusion almost makes me buy a set of Bel Canto, for premiering their good sense of giving their strings an easily recognizable name... :o

Also switched from my Perm solos to the mentioned Orig. FC on D and G and Eudoxa (yes, the gut core) on A and E. And guess what, I was a bit disappointed, especially with the FC's! I know I come right from a solo set, but they didn't respond as I thought they did. More difficult to get going than perhaps they should, and not really responding to my attempts at playing loud. The Eudoxas were a bliss compared to the solo strings, though; they will always be a bit unresponsive but they're excused. Afte all they have gut core... and they make the bass rumble nicely, and make a beautiful sound, at least in the lowest three positions. But, maybe a set of Bel Canto would be just it... :rolleyes:

Anyways, no, of course you can't know beforehand what will work. But considering the seeming fact that Calvin's E string problem probably comes from the high pressure (and that this is the most common Flex problem) we have to make our best guess. I believe he has got some food for thought now. Tell us where you end up, will you, Calvin?

[Calvin Marks]

Hey. Well, the problem kind of fixed it self. The fingerboard needed a bit of a planing and Don did it himself today. With an extra bit of clearance and the bridge height raised a bit the string really started to speak. It was a bit pre-mature of me to judge the string based solely off of a few days of playing it. Currently it sounds very warm and and it's matching the rest of the other strings, nice and dark...The G is however very bright, but that's a different story, and I kind of like the brighter G, it helps me cut through for solo playing.


Belcanto's....I hated these strings, they just felt kind of wimpy in comparison to Flexocores.

The bass is sounding fantastic now that it was a great set of strings on 'em!

[Ken Smith]

Hey. Well, the problem kind of fixed it self. The fingerboard needed a bit of a planing and Don did it himself today. With an extra bit of clearance and the bridge height raised a bit the string really started to speak. It was a bit pre-mature of me to judge the string based solely off of a few days of playing it. Currently it sounds very warm and and it's matching the rest of the other strings, nice and dark...The G is however very bright, but that's a different story, and I kind of like the brighter G, it helps me cut through for solo playing.


Belcanto's....I hated these strings, they just felt kind of wimpy in comparison to Flexocores.

The bass is sounding fantastic now that it was a great set of strings on 'em!

Now you see why I tweak every bass of mine that I personally play. The strings can only do so much.

As far as your Bel' hatred, I was not much of a fan either BUT the Ext. Bel E/C is not the same as the reg/ E. It's way better, maybe too good. My Hart plays fine tension-wise with regular 92s Flex with the E normal as well. The Bass just rings all over and the wood sounds even a bit after the note is stopped. Most basses need a beefier E but this one is fine. On the Hart, the Bel' E/C actually feels a bit on the heavy side but that's probably because for the last 18 months of so it was string with reg.92s.

Now after putting the Bel's on the Hart, I am re-thinking this string all over again. A bass needs what it needs, personal taste on brand and gauge aside.

As your bass breaks in and/or as seasons change, you might like then what you didn't now. Also, after a year or two when the strings are less than they were, almost anything will sound better.. lol

[Joel Larsson]

As your bass breaks in and/or as seasons change, you might like then what you didn't now. Also, after a year or two when the strings are less than they were, almost anything will sound better.. lol

Too true... that's why I follow http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433047 so closely; he doesn't let the strings wear out before he switches to another set. It's good to see somebody do that with an arco perspective, too... I love that http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php page, it's just that I don't play anything else than orchestral pizz these days!
(Apart from my unexpectedly regular attempts at getting better at the good ol' slapping, that is.)
I hope the former guy will be able to upload his audio clips somewhere.

Good to hear that you bass is working now, Calvin! And it's just great you have such a good relationship with the maker, and that he doesn't consider his work done until your bass has reached its full potential.

[Calvin Marks]

Too true... that's why I follow http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433047 so closely; he doesn't let the strings wear out before he switches to another set. It's good to see somebody do that with an arco perspective, too... I love that http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php page, it's just that I don't play anything else than orchestral pizz these days!
(Apart from my unexpectedly regular attempts at getting better at the good ol' slapping, that is.)
I hope the former guy will be able to upload his audio clips somewhere.

Good to hear that you bass is working now, Calvin! And it's just great you have such a good relationship with the maker, and that he doesn't consider his work done until your bass has reached its full potential.

If you're still living in Ontario, Quebec or the East Coast of Canada/U.S he includes a set-up done by him twice a year...and he comes to you, free of charge. His instruments are also massively underpriced. Gary Karr likes his instruments more than Hamm, but they have an advertising contract together. Ed Barker just bought a solo bass from Don, and it sounds fantastic.

Don and I will be at the ISB convention together with my bass, if anyone wants to try or find out more about his work.

[Brenton Carter]

w/ Permanent E: it brightens it up significantly, but the balance of tensions didn't seem to match. your bow arm probably could adapt to it and make it a bit smoother, but i still didn't want that bright of a sound. i just adapted my bow arm weight with the Flexocore E and it really has opened the string up: without getting too technical i generally think about pulling or coaxing the sound out of the strings, but with that stubborn E i put a little more shoulder and mid back weight into it as well as flatten my wrist (toward the pinky) out on the stick and pull from the outside of my right arm. (hmm i think i got technical whoops!)... it's important to stay relaxed and use natural weight. then again, i'm a player not a luthier. so, if no product recommendations work for you, try this. it may not work for you either, but anyway i'd put my recommendation behind the Perm' E.