Sonore strings

[Joel Larsson]

Apparently, these are super-high end, ultra expensive German strings made in small quantities. Has anybody every encountered them, 'in real life'? All I have found online is an email address to the maker, geroldgenssler@gmx.de.

[Anselm Hauke]

hi joel,
there is a thread in the other forum (sorry ken) about mr gensslers products
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382000

and if you can read german many info in a german forum
http://www.geba-online.de/forum.php4

i never played these strings, but the guys who did are 100% convinced of their quality

[Joel Larsson]

Thanks Anselm, I don't know why I didn't see that thread. Perhaps it's because my focused has moved here. :rolleyes:

They do seem like a costly but nice alternative to all else. I just made a last minute application to that Bass Kaleidoscope course in Germany at the end of March; if there is still room for more participants, I might run into those strings, as he is said to show up there and showcase his stuff.

[Anselm Hauke]

I just made a last minute application to that Bass Kaleidoscope course in Germany at the end of March; if there is still room for more participants, I might run into those strings, as he is said to show up there and showcase his stuff.

hi joel
thats interesting, maybe i will be there too.

[Joel Larsson]

That would be just great, Anselm. If there is room for me (I still haven't received any form of response), watch out for a guy with a red beard, too little hair for his age and a bad Swedish accent to my English.

[Anselm Hauke]

ok, and you can watch out for somebody who looks like my avatar, but without a tailcoat.:)

(ever thought about using a pic of you as an avatar?)

[Joel Larsson]

A pic as an avatar, hm. Perhaps if I find myself having too much time on my hands someday. Which is likely to happen. Perhaps now; I am about to go to bed, it's just that I don't like going to bed so I keep looking for stuff to do!!

[Richard Prowse]

A pic as an avatar, hm. Perhaps if I find myself having too much time on my hands someday. Which is likely to happen. Perhaps now; I am about to go to bed, it's just that I don't like going to bed so I keep looking for stuff to do!!
Try sleeping as something to do, then your problem will be solved.

[Joel Larsson]

Thanks Richard. Your wisdom is truly like a well where I have yet to reach the bottom.

[Anselm Hauke]

Thanks Anselm, I don't know why I didn't see that thread. Perhaps it's because my focused has moved here. :rolleyes:

They do seem like a costly but nice alternative to all else. I just made a last minute application to that Bass Kaleidoscope course in Germany at the end of March; if there is still room for more participants, I might run into those strings, as he is said to show up there and showcase his stuff.
i just talked to mr. genssler on the phone, he said he will be there with one bass and different strings to check out

[Joel Larsson]

And I just got confirmed that I can go. I don't think I'll be able to bring my own bass, though... seems like one has to go by train and bus. People always get mad at me when I bring too much luggage. Especially mothers of small children. They really hate me. They just can't understand that my bass is worth more than their kids. And I've done some counting on this! A child has to be over 3 years of age until so much money has been spent on it that it will technically speaking carry a greater value than my bass. Including the flight case, the kid'll have to be 3½. And at that age, they won't need a kid's carriage. This is why I have every right to claim the biggest space in the train as my own. :p
Anyways, Anselm, my friend, which route should I take? Flight to Berlin and then train towards wherever it is I should go?

[Anselm Hauke]

Anyways, Anselm, my friend, which route should I take? Flight to Berlin and then train towards wherever it is I should go?
well, joel, my friend, michaelstein is in the middle of nowhere, but i think if you fly to berlin, there must be a train next to it, and the remaing way by bus.
don´t they give you some roadmap at the office?

[Joel Larsson]

The Anfahrt part of the website is not very helpful. Their English translation is a bit contradictory. The problem is, that when I use Babelfish to translate the German version, it becomes just as contradictory! But I'll manage, I hope. I just thought that maybe you knew some secret trick.
I need to buy a bow down there. Some people will probably show up and try to sell us things, I mean apart from Herr Genssler, right?

[Anselm Hauke]

I need to buy a bow down there. Some people will probably show up and try to sell us things, I mean apart from Herr Genssler, right?

i think so.




ok, you need a bow...i have some...

[Joel Larsson]

Bring 'em. :)

I need one from around €2,5k and up. The downside of buying stuff directly from people is that they tend to keep the best to themselves... what's your keeper? ;)

[Anselm Hauke]

Bring 'em. :)

I need one from around €2,5k and up. The downside of buying stuff directly from people is that they tend to keep the best to themselves... what's your keeper? ;)

i have an about 60 years old german bow for sale. made in mittenwald and stamped "Albert Nürnberger"
but i doubt its the right bow for you, because i won´t sell it for 2,5k

[Joel Larsson]

But Nürnberger made good bows, didn't he? If it's cheaper but just as good as a billion dollar bow, I'd buy it anyway, you know. ;)

[Anselm Hauke]

it´s 1500,-€

[Anselm Hauke]

But Nürnberger made good bows, didn't he? ;)

yes, he did. but my bow is a bow stamped "Albert Nürnberger", that means: anybody else exept Albert Nürnberger made it :(

[Joel Larsson]

Ah, one of those... like a Stradivarius bass.:eek:

I ran into an "H.R. Pfretzschner" on the Net before Christmas. It looked strange. Being the powerful and important man I am, I sent three bass players to check it out, one of which already owns three Pfretzschners. This one was strange, as it clearly wasn't what we usually associate with a Pfretzschner; it had a very low tip and was somewhere inbetween German and French, and had a rather clumsy brass peg. I HAVE heard that Pretzschner's early bass bows weren't what they later became - which isn't very surprising considering that he was something of a pioneer of the modern German bow - and it was indeed most similar to the earliest of the three bows they brought. They said it seemed to make a decent sound, but it needed work, and I wasn't very interested in spending my money on what wasn't necessarily a real H.R.P., so I let that one go. I'd still like to know whether it was real or not, though...

[Andreas Henningsson]

Hey, Joel! You can listen to the Sonore Corax here (http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php).

Gerlod was one of the founders of the Velvet string company. I think he took off to start his own business when they stopped making guts.

[Anselm Hauke]

Ah, one of those... like a Stradivarius bass.:eek:


but, despite of being no nürnberger, its a good ca. 60 years old mittenwälder bow.
it was my main bow till i switched to my next main bow

[Anselm Hauke]

hey joel and andreas
so much time for posting on a saturday at 20:00, don´t you have a gig?


ooops, ok, what about me...:o

[Joel Larsson]

My motto is that time and money are no problems.

I guess I could apply for scholarships or something. But, nah.

Andreas; thanks. They sound like something you could use, considering your strange string preferences. ;)
I am mostly interested in his Orchestrals and Red Labels. I hope he'll bring some of the latter to the course in March. Gut core is nice for orchestral playing but I have yet to play one that carries the power of a rope/steel/whatever all the way up above the FB.

[Anselm Hauke]

...I have yet to play one that carries the power of a rope/steel/whatever all the way up above the FB.

have you tried oliv?

[Joel Larsson]

Yes, I had Oliv G and D and Eudoxa A and E for a while. Lovely orchestral strings, but I had to get other G and D's. The Olivs got all hoarse even before thumb position, and also had a tendency to stretch out when I played Koussevitzky, for instance. That is, they droppped in pitch, as much as a half note. But it was no idea to tune them on the run; if I'd let them be for a couple of minute they'd get back in tune. If I had made an attempt at tuning them up as the pitch went down, I'd end up one half note too high. VERY uncomfortable.
They could probably work for a classical concerto, for instance, but I soon got myself a couple of steel strings instead. I might get back to them the day I don't have to study any more.

[Andreas Henningsson]

Joel,
have you ever considered a full set of Eudoxas? But they really cost a fortune... And maybe they would behave similar to the Oliv?

[Ken Smith]

Joel,
have you ever considered a full set of Eudoxas? But they really cost a fortune... And maybe they would behave similar to the Oliv?

I'm sorry but are these for Bowing or Pizz? Your usage I mean..

Both the Oliv's and Eudoxa's are Gut Core wrapped with flat metal. Silver or chrome steel doesn't matter. The fact remains that Gut stretched and metal does not. Also, the metal is wrapped around the string at an angle so when pulled over a bridge or nut, the windings can be pulled apart. This happens with all strings that I have seen but with Gut in the core, it is just a matter of time, sooner rather than later.

I have used a full set of Olivs as well as Oliv G/D withe Eudoxa A/E. They were shorter lived than any other string I can recall. The sound was fantastic and a dream to bow. The full set of Olivs on the bottom were not so easy to get a sound out of. I had them on my Martini which is a fairly dark sounding bass so not the best match there.

The Olivs are thicker in the Core than the Eudoxas and get to sounding a little choked in the upper positions. I do not recall ever playing the Eudoxa G or D. Maybe I should, you think? With an Extension E/C? Maybe my big old mystery bass will feel at home with them..;)

For me, in place of Guts or Gut wound string, I prefer the Evah's for durability and gut-like qualities, the good qualities of the Guts.:) They feel great under the fingers and pump out a nice sound with the Bow. The Belcantos are another good choice with slightly metallic sounding and less colorful. They do however bow fantastic and are quite loud and direct sounding.

[Andreas Henningsson]

I'm sorry but are these for Bowing or Pizz? Your usage I mean..

The Olivs are thicker in the Core than the Eudoxas and get to sounding a little choked in the upper positions. I do not recall ever playing the Eudoxa G or D. Maybe I should, you think? With an Extension E/C? Maybe my big old mystery bass will feel at home with them..;)


I'm talking arco here. ;)

That's what I meant; the thinner core of the Eudoxa might have an advance in higher positions.

[Joel Larsson]

Yes, well, if somebody threw me an Eudoxa G I would be happy to try it. But I wouldn't buy them under the impression that they'd make great strings for solo arco playing. Someday I hope I'll be in a position where it's reasonable to focus on my orchestral sound, and where money is no issue any more, but for now, I'll stick to the cheaper stuff that actually sounds better for classical solo playing. I have a Bel Canto set that got stuck in the Norwegian customs... thought they'd be good for both solo and orchestra. But apparently I need a Norwegian ID number or something. This sucks.

Got to say, by the way, that the Eudoxas really do stay in tune, in case somebody ever doubted it. I get impressed from time to time, when my Orig Flats have dropped half a note but my A and E stay in tune just fine.

[Calvin Marks]

I'm talking arco here. ;)

That's what I meant; the thinner core of the Eudoxa might have an advance in higher positions.

I have an old set of Eudoxa's on my second instrument. They're wonderful strings that bow extremely well. The sound starts to get choked once you reach the 2nd octave D on the G string...So no, you most certainly cannot solo on these strings...They're purely orchestral or jazz strings, and they're marvelous.

[Joel Larsson]

but, despite of being no nürnberger, its a good ca. 60 years old mittenwälder bow.
it was my main bow till i switched to my next main bow

When I bought the F. Günter Hoyer bow from his son Matthias (and grandson, too, who had just taken up his ancestor's profession - love family businesses!) he (Matthias) told me that his father (the actual F. Günter) made bows for Nürnberger back in the day. The guy was born in 1926, so it might very well be a bow from before he inherited his father's workshop, or got the master's degree, or something. But perhaps you already knew this. Anyways, this F. Günter is still going strong, well past 80 as he is... and I love the bow I got, and, if the same guy did yours, I can see why you waited until now to get another. :cool:

Anyways, on the subject of Sonore, now that I've met Herr Genssler and seen him in action, I can see why you won't have to look any further after you've brought your bass to his shop and gotten a set. His Gut cores actually sound great in ALL position - fancy that!! - and the two year warranty makes it worth the money, considering the fact that a normal set of Eudoxas seem to last for, like, three months. He even almost succeeded in satisfying Thomas Martin, which according to Mr. Martin himself, is a very difficult thing to do. Too bad I don't live in Berlin...

[Andreas Henningsson]

So, did you purchase them?

[Nathan Parker]

So, do you have to bring him your bass to get strings from him? Or, can you just order them?

Not that I am going to. Good lord they are expensive. But, that two year warranty seems pretty sweet. Considering that I burn through 2 sets a year, typically, that might not be such a bad deal.

[Joel Larsson]

Andreas, dude, I'm BROKE!! I ain't getting a set of Sonores anytime in the foreseeable future... but someday... :rolleyes:
Plus, I didn't bring my own bass to the course. And Nathan, well, he wants to custom make the strings for you. Maybe you can talk him into producing a set based on your bass' measurements, but while I have no doubt that his strings will nevertheless be the best you have ever played, I think you'll miss out the best part if you don't take your bass to him - which is, trying all his promo sets until finally settling for the best of the best, knowing that your own set will be even better. :D

[Brian Ross]

Just thought I'd let folks know that I have had a set of Mr. Genssler's TWINE model strings on my bass for about 3 weeks now. They are all wound gut core strings. Not sure what the windings are - in fact they appear to be different for different strings.

First of all I'll say that dealing with Mr. Genssler has been fantastic. When I expressed interest in his strings, he searched out recordings of my playing and made recommendations to me based on what he heard and what he knew about my work. After going back and forth a few times, the TWINEs were the model he thought would be best for me, so I took the leap...

The strings are really really great. The arco sound is rich, warm and clear through the whole range of the bass. This is the first time I've used gut core strings, and I was surprised that they are quite thin (pretty similar dimension to spirocore weichs, for instance). They feel really nice under my fingers.

Pizz they are growly and have lots of sustain.

My only complaint is that arco the open strings don't want to start very cleanly. This has been improving as the strings settle in and as I get a better feel for how they respond to the bow.

[Calvin Marks]

Just thought I'd let folks know that I have had a set of Mr. Genssler's TWINE model strings on my bass for about 3 weeks now. They are all wound gut core strings. Not sure what the windings are - in fact they appear to be different for different strings.

First of all I'll say that dealing with Mr. Genssler has been fantastic. When I expressed interest in his strings, he searched out recordings of my playing and made recommendations to me based on what he heard and what he knew about my work. After going back and forth a few times, the TWINEs were the model he thought would be best for me, so I took the leap...

The strings are really really great. The arco sound is rich, warm and clear through the whole range of the bass. This is the first time I've used gut core strings, and I was surprised that they are quite thin (pretty similar dimension to spirocore weichs, for instance). They feel really nice under my fingers.

Pizz they are growly and have lots of sustain.

My only complaint is that arco the open strings don't want to start very cleanly. This has been improving as the strings settle in and as I get a better feel for how they respond to the bow.

How's that second mortgage workin' for ya? :)

[Brian Ross]

Oh, I just told him to send the bill to you. Hope that was ok?

[Calvin Marks]

So, what kind of strings does this man make? Are they for orchestra? I don't know of anyone in the U.S using these strings asides from a few soloists. I'm sure they're popular in Germany.

[Brian Ross]

He makes about any kind of string you can imagine as they are all hand made to order. Here are two slightly different lists of his "standard models" that were posted over on the "other" forum:

1. sonores DRAGO SOLO modernes Solospiel (auch in Normalstimmung spielbar)
2. sonores DRAGO BASSO modernes Orchesterspiel
3. sonores TWINE alte Musik/(mod. Orchester)-
4. sonores HELIX Jazz pizz/arco, alte Musik
5. sonores CORAX Jazz pizz/arco, alte Musik


CORAX -thick black gut for Jazz (bowing easily)
HELIX -helix wound medium gut for Jazz (bowing easily)
TWINE -thin gut core, roundwound with metal for jazz and bowing
DRAGO solo -thin gut core, roundwound with metal for modern bowing
DRAGO basso -thin gut core, roundwound with metal for modern bowing
RED LABEL solo -man-made core roundwound with metal for modern bowing
RED LABEL basso -man-made core roundwound with metal for modern bowing

The only two players I know of using his strings off the top of my head are Christian Weber in Switzerland and François Rabbath in France, although clearly there are others.

[Calvin Marks]

The only two players I know of using his strings off the top of my head are Christian Weber in Switzerland and François Rabbath in France, although clearly there are others.

Genssler told me that Rabbath uses his Red Label solo strings tuned down to orchestra pitch. On several interviews Rabbath said he'd never do this as it's "the easy way out".

[Nathan Parker]

Just save us some trouble and tell us they suck. I'm very happy with my sound as it is right now, but there's always something to tweak and play with. I love the concept of the Velvet strings (this guy helped found that company, right) but they just don't have the sound that I get from good old Chorda's.

And now some questions. How "gut-like" are they in your mind? And how loud are they? Those are the two qualities I am most interested in. Oh yeah, one more: Are they all the same tension, like Velvets?

[Brian Ross]

I'm quite sure François has never said that.

I'm also quite sure that he uses the set of strings made by Genssler called the RABBATH set.

Genssler told me that Rabbath uses his Red Label solo strings tuned down to orchestra pitch. On several interviews Rabbath said he'd never do this as it's "the easy way out".

[Brian Ross]

A couple answers....

I couldn't speak to how gut like they are never having had other gut strings on my bass. Give that they are made with a gut core, I have to assume they are pretty gut like :) Of course, all four are wound which makes them a bit different than the normal set of guts with 2 wound and 2 plain gut strings.

As for volume, my bass is definitely louder with these strings than it has been with any other set of strings I've had on it, which are: Corelli 370M, Bel Canto, and Spirocore Weich.

Finally, yes, they are all the same tension. In the case of the TWINE set the tension is 23kp.


Just save us some trouble and tell us they suck. I'm very happy with my sound as it is right now, but there's always something to tweak and play with. I love the concept of the Velvet strings (this guy helped found that company, right) but they just don't have the sound that I get from good old Chorda's.

And now some questions. How "gut-like" are they in your mind? And how loud are they? Those are the two qualities I am most interested in. Oh yeah, one more: Are they all the same tension, like Velvets?

[Nathan Parker]

Thanks for the quick answers. I appreciate. My string lust has been quelled.

[Brian Ross]

So, what kind of strings does this man make? Are they for orchestra? I don't know of anyone in the U.S using these strings asides from a few soloists. I'm sure they're popular in Germany.

Genssler told me that Rabbath uses his Red Label solo strings tuned down to orchestra pitch.

Calvin, it seems weird that you would ask me what kind of strings he makes if you've spoken to him personally about them.

It would be more becoming for you to ask genuine questions, talk about what you know, and refrain from misguided personal attacks.

[Ken Smith]

Calvin, it seems weird that you would ask me what kind of strings he makes if you've spoken to him personally about them.

It would be more becoming for you to ask genuine questions, talk about what you know, and refrain from misguided personal attacks.

Settle down now and I will talk about my feelings about Gut, Gut core and Gut-like string.. This is from my most recent personal experiences..

In the last few years I have tried 3 types of Gut string sets, a few types of Gut-like synthetic sets and some Gut core sets complete or mixed (eg. Oliv/Eudoxa)..

At first, every set was nice when new with two exceptions, maybe three. After awhile I would notice their shortcomings. This could be in durability, bow response or even Pizz response under the ear. What was usually good was the thicker feel under the fingers.

I will say here and now that I have never seen, played, tried or heard these Sonore Strings and can only go by the descriptions I have read.

The fix for these shortcomings I have experienced was always returning to some type or full metal string like Flexocor 92s (Reg, stark or mixed) or most recently the new Belcantos with the bigger E/C string.

When playing in an Orchestra you need to dig in and grab the note when needed and any type of delay puts you behind in the music and the beat. Playing Orchestra Bass is often like playing in a rhythm section just like in Jazz or Pop music or even on Electric bass. YOU are the beat that holds it all together. Having strings that are slow to respond when digging in can be the death of your playing!

Now, finding which string responds best on your bass (sometimes on a given day) is another challenge altogether. Not being able to afford the bass of your dreams is another reality in life. Trying to make up for that with string switching all day and night just makes the insanity grow in my opinion. Using a bigger plate for your food is no more filling unless you actually have MORE food! Therefore, there is no magic all around string to make your bass sound like the d'Salo or Montagnana you wish you owned.

I spoke to one player at this years ISB who uses ONLY gut strings BUT, does NOT play in a regular Orchestra but rather a Chamber orchestra at most. Thus being the case, one must realize what certain strings were used for in the past or what worked better for whatever once they were developed.

The great majority of Orchestra players in the world as well as Jazz players USE Steel Strings of one kind or another. If your Gut to Gut-like strings aren't cutting it, then go with the herd. There is safety in numbers..;)

If it's the Gut 'sound' you are searching for, go with it if you must but don't expect them to be able to do what the modern Steels can do. If such was the case and Guts could out perform Steels, then Steels would be off the market by now.

[Calvin Marks]

Calvin, it seems weird that you would ask me what kind of strings he makes if you've spoken to him personally about them.

It would be more becoming for you to ask genuine questions, talk about what you know, and refrain from misguided personal attacks.

? "Misguided personal attacks" Take it easy, nothing in my post was a personal attack to you or anyone, so take it easy.

I remember very little about these strings. I spoke with the maker about 3 years ago, perhaps then he was still with VELVET I do not know. Here's the e-mail he sent me several years ago. On an interview between Jason Heath and Francois Rabbath he gave his opinion on solo strings which I stated before.


"Dear Calvin,

Joel uses the RED LABEL, but in Fifth Tuning
My strings have an brillant clear sound but by no means the sound of any steel string.
Francois Rabbath uses the solo-version but in normal tuning for his solo playing and he is completly happy with them.
But I think for both application, solo and orchestra the original RED LABEL basso version is the best choice.
Best regards
Gerold"

[Nathan Parker]

I appreciate your post, Ken. For me, the full gut string experience is the way to go. It gets me the sound, feel and volume I want, and is much easier on my hands than full metal strings. It should be noted that I do no orchestral playing at this time, so perhaps I am taking this a bit to far of topic and for that I apologize. If I seriously get into orchestral work, I will be looking for another option for sure.

That being said, I am a little bit excited about these strings, and I look forward to hearing more about them as they "age" on your bass, Brian.

[Calvin Marks]

Naturally I agree with what Ken just stated. You can spend your life trying to get "that sound", but usually it has much more to do with your instrument than if you're using Permanents or Flexocores! Believe me, I've spent about a year investing in strings only to find that it's a means to an end.

I've played Olivs and Eudoxa's and both blended fine in an orchestra section because they sound like a steel-string but with a very warm, round sound. I've also played plain gut strings from Aquila Italia, Gamut and Dlogolecki, and true gut strings will never blend in a modern ensemble.

I do not know how these strings by Genssler sound or fit in a modern orchestral bass section. I think you have a lot of leeway when you're a jazz musician or perhaps the only bassist in a chamber ensemble, because you can afford afford to "make your own sound".

There's a reason why players come back to strings that sound like Flexocore (or more recently Belcanto), it's because they have that warm, powerful sound that blends well and isn't too aggressive.

That being said, if I were a jazz musician I would not hesitate to use real gut strings. There's a special feeling that comes from playing these strings.

[Brian Ross]

I simply wanted to share my experience with Genssler's Sonores TWINE strings. I find the tone of your comments and questions distasteful. As far as I know Rabbath has never expressed that opinion about tuning solo strings down, and he currently uses the Sonores RABBATH model strings. I have spent lots of personal time over several years studying with François and researching his life and work. I've never heard him say that about tuning solo strings down. On the other hand, his lack of enthusiasm for solo tuning in general is well known. You may be thinking of that.

? "Misguided personal attacks" ? What are you talking about???

I remember very little about these strings. I spoke with the maker about 3 years ago, perhaps then he was still with VELVET I do not know. Here's the e-mail he sent me several years ago. On an interview between Jason Heath and Francois Rabbath he gave his opinion on solo strings which I stated before.


"Dear Calvin,

Joel uses the RED LABEL, but in Fifth Tuning
My strings have an brillant clear sound but by no means the sound of any steel string.
Francois Rabbath uses the solo-version but in normal tuning for his solo playing and he is completly happy with them.
But I think for both application, solo and orchestra the original RED LABEL basso version is the best choice.
Best regards
Gerold"

[Calvin Marks]

Yes, and I think your next step would be to either delete your highly aggressive post towards me or issue an apology. I have nothing against Rabbath, he is a nice man and I've studied with him BRIEFLY, but in my personal taste I do not share his opinion towards what is the ideal sound for the double bass.

To each their own.

[Calvin Marks]

Glad that quieted you down. Now, shall we discuss these strings like civil minded adults?

[Pete George]

I've been running the Sonores "Drago Basso" (standard -- not solo -- orchestra strings) on my Arvi (four-string with a low C) for a couple of months, but I've only really been able to practice a lot on them for the past three weeks or so.

To preface, I'm a confessed string sl.ut -- I've tried almost all of the popular metal strings, though this is my first foray into guts for many, many years. (My first high school bass had strings made out of dinosaur gut, which was very cheap back then.) My "standard" setup on the Arvi is Permanents on C/E and A, and Flexocor '92s on D and G. I've tried a lot of other things, including most recently Evahs (beautifully big, round sound, but uncentered pitch on the lower strings), Bel Cantos (great to bow, but a sound that's not big enough or rich enough for me), and Compass 180s (C string breaks way too easily, strings otherwise interesting -- but weird).

As to the Sonores Drago Bassos, what can I say? I'm in love.

As noted earlier in this thread, the Sonores strings are shockingly thin to those of us who grew up on gut strings the thickness of your pinky. My Dragos are no thicker than standard Evahs, and probably thinner. And while they are expensive, I take some comfort from the 2-year guaranty. When they first arrived, I showed the strings to a bass luthier in the area who specializes in period instruments with gut strings, and he said the quality of the strings is superb.

From a playing standpoint, the strings speak very easily; the tone is rich, deep, clear, and complex; the volume is tremendous, especially on the two lowest strings; and they have a personality unlike any other string I've played -- "guttiness," I guess. I've been playing a lot of baroque sonatas on these -- and it's the most addictive experience I've ever had on the bass. Once I start, I can't stop. When I have to stop, I start playing again as soon as I can.

One specific point -- the vibrato that can be generated on these strings is amazing -- unlike anything possible on any other string I've tried.

To Ken's points, I can only say that there is no responsiveness difference between these strings and all of the metal strings I have tried -- except that the Dragos are MORE responsive than almost any metal string I've tried, with the possible exception of the Bel Cantos. In addition, the Drago strings hold pitch reliably all the way up the fingerboard. (Though if I made my living in thumb position, I'd try the solo version that Gerold offers.) The character of the tone IS different from metal orchestral strings, especially on the G string, but not so wildly different that I would contemplate a major problem fitting in with a section that is already using a variety of different strings. (I wouldn't audition on these because of that difference, but once I had orchestral "tenure" I don't think I'd be thrown out for using them.)

My teacher (the principal bassist with an ICSOM orchestra) played these for the first time yesterday and was amazed that any gut string could perform like mine. He comes from a jazz background and also thought the strings would be superb for jazz use (though Genssler makes other strings specifically tailored for jazz).

Bottom line: there isn't any string that's perfect for anyone, and these aren't either. I love playing them, though, and would recommend them subject to the observations above.

[Calvin Marks]

I've been running the Sonores "Drago Basso" (standard -- not solo -- orchestra strings) on my Arvi (four-string with a low C) for a couple of months, but I've only really been able to practice a lot on them for the past three weeks or so.

To preface, I'm a confessed string sl.ut -- I've tried almost all of the popular metal strings, though this is my first foray into guts for many, many years. (My first high school bass had strings made out of dinosaur gut, which was very cheap back then.) My "standard" setup on the Arvi is Permanents on C/E and A, and Flexocor '92s on D and G. I've tried a lot of other things, including most recently Evahs (beautifully big, round sound, but uncentered pitch on the lower strings), Bel Cantos (great to bow, but a sound that's not big enough or rich enough for me), and Compass 180s (C string breaks way too easily, strings otherwise interesting -- but weird).

As to the Sonores Drago Bassos, what can I say? I'm in love.

As noted earlier in this thread, the Sonores strings are shockingly thin to those of us who grew up on gut strings the thickness of your pinky. My Dragos are no thicker than standard Evahs, and probably thinner. And while they are expensive, I take some comfort from the 2-year guaranty. When they first arrived, I showed the strings to a bass luthier in the area who specializes in period instruments with gut strings, and he said the quality of the strings is superb.

From a playing standpoint, the strings speak very easily; the tone is rich, deep, clear, and complex; the volume is tremendous, especially on the two lowest strings; and they have a personality unlike any other string I've played -- "guttiness," I guess. I've been playing a lot of baroque sonatas on these -- and it's the most addictive experience I've ever had on the bass. Once I start, I can't stop. When I have to stop, I start playing again as soon as I can.

One specific point -- the vibrato that can be generated on these strings is amazing -- unlike anything possible on any other string I've tried.

To Ken's points, I can only say that there is no responsiveness difference between these strings and all of the metal strings I have tried -- except that the Dragos are MORE responsive than almost any metal string I've tried, with the possible exception of the Bel Cantos. In addition, the Drago strings hold pitch reliably all the way up the fingerboard. (Though if I made my living in thumb position, I'd try the solo version that Gerold offers.) The character of the tone IS different from metal orchestral strings, especially on the G string, but not so wildly different that I would contemplate a major problem fitting in with a section that is already using a variety of different strings. (I wouldn't audition on these because of that difference, but once I had orchestral "tenure" I don't think I'd be thrown out for using them.)

My teacher (the principal bassist with an ICSOM orchestra) played these for the first time yesterday and was amazed that any gut string could perform like mine. He comes from a jazz background and also thought the strings would be superb for jazz use (though Genssler makes other strings specifically tailored for jazz).

Bottom line: there isn't any string that's perfect for anyone, and these aren't either. I love playing them, though, and would recommend them subject to the observations above.

Pete, so these strings are gut-core wound in steel or metal? Did the bridge height need raising to get these to speak properly?

[Pete George]

Pete, so these strings are gut-core wound in steel or metal? Did the bridge height need raising to get these to speak properly?

Right -- the winding material is a trade secret, but it's some kind of metal (Krell?), impeccably flat-wound.

I had my old Flexocor '92/Permanent rig set at about 5mm for the G, a bit higher on the C/E and A, and I didn't have to adjust height at all when I switched. These strings play great at metal-string heights.

[Pete George]

I liked these so much on my 4-string that I switched over on my five string as well. The new set has only been on a few days, but the set sounds great so far - even the low B. As with the four, these strings make me want to play and play and not put the bass down. They're very inviting. "User-friendly" doesn't start to describe the sensation.