update
 

Here are some shots with chromatic stops now in place. I made the brass parts on my little Clausing mill.

nice..
 

Sorry for the late reply. The hardware reminds me a bit of Arnold's as well as Jeff's brackets. The Fingers look nice and similar as well.

Jacquet goes Chromatic..
 

Here's some pics of *my Jacquet we took a few weeks ago but were just loaded in recently (*in the process of being sold at the time of posting.)

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpg

I have to count carefully how many Chromatic C-Extensions Arnold has made for me. Jeff made 2 so far and will make a 3rd for the Mougenot when it's fully restored...

Ok, counted them..:) Arnold has made 6 of them so far including my Panormo school Bass which was just re-photographed to show the extension. I will post that one as soon as Mike loads in the new pics.

Of the 6 from Arnold, 3 of them, the latest made have the adjustable brackets. All of Jeff's do as well. The Hart bass actually has Jeff's brackets but the extension and fingers by Arnold.

as promised..
 

My son Mike just loaded the Extension pics last night. the full body shots to follow when he comes back from school in a week of so as the pics are loaded here into my computer.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpg

Amazing looking extention! Mike is lucky guy :-)

Mike?
 

That is not Mike's Bass, it's mine!:)

He just does the web work for me and takes the pictures.. :cool:

Mario Lamarre extension on my X. Jacquet.

Attachment 1530 Attachment 1531 Attachment 1532 Attachment 1533

nice..
 

Nice bass and extension. I remember playing it when you visited. All the best with your new 'old' bass.

:-) sorry Ken, my brain wasn't engaged when I read your post.

chromatic ebony ext
 

All ebony ext, sliding nut, was fingered but added capos.

Justin, how did it feel sinking that last putt to win the British Open? I had no idea you also play the bass!

C?
 

This is a C or B ext? The E latch looks off to be in tune. Does it close parallel to the string? Did you save a lot of money using those generic latches as opposed to hand made Ebony ones to match your E closure?

I have tried those on other peoples basses and when I reverse 'ridge hand' it to open them up on the fly they hurt or almost cut me IF I can open them. The rounded Ebony fingers just feel so much smoother whacking them when in a hurry as I don't usually use my fingers as clamps to move them open, just the side edge of my hand/fore finger/knuckle.

This is the first tunable Chromatic Ebony fingers C/X that Arnold made for me using tunable Brackets; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...ges/hart11.jpg
And this is the one Jeff made for me just before that using similar brackets;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...ages/bis5.jpg]

Then, Arnold had some more brackets made up and made these two for me back to back;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpg

I've had others made from both Jeff and Arnold and the ones they currently make which have slowly evolved are the best I have seen anywhere as far as function and workability goes. Well worth the difference in price if you are serious about what you put on your bass.

Curious, do the hatpegs get in the way when using the extension?

capo type.
 

The E latch is open on the picture, its a b-ext. i was playing it and my phone rang so since i was holding bass i leaned it forward and took the pic with my phone. my latches are also adjustable along the extension, they are the ones from basscapos.com which to me look almost exacly like the ones from the american (non-original) stop makers. and the leather on them makes a way better sound than fingered, but i think thats just the bass as it(the bass)was able to play an A with a loosened E string. as far as opening and closing on the fly i usually plan out what stops i'll need and when i forget they aren't a problem to use either my finger or thumb to open. the tension can be adjusted on them as well in case i change to strings of a different tension, i like the ebony stop too but the capos are more flush and i dont have to worry about them sticking out off the side of scroll.the hat pegs arent a problem but i did find on the beeth 5 Allegro (pg 56 if u have the O. Zimmerman complete parts book thats yellow) a slight angle if standing is helpful or sitting works best. its not needed but helps. or fingering 2(E)4(F)2(E)1(D)0(C) works to avoid grazing the hat peg. its original so its not coming off,lol.

I've checked out/played the other materials used for capos especially the ones from Robertsons, and the KC Strings (even the Lamarrio) ones and these add far less weight and dont tilt the bass over (i will mention they are great and should be matched to the players physical capabilities and instrument) . I saved way more money than is posted on most installers websites by getting fingered ext and then deciding to add capos, but according to basscapos.com, alot of widely known shops and installers use them. http://www.basscapos.com/installers.html

Ken, Ken, Ken... Generic? No, Justin has the real deal installed on his bass. There are some cheap copies out there, like the ones you have on your basses. BassCapos were the first to use an adjustable U-slot design for the mounting bracket. In developing the bracket I worked to create something that was both highly adjustable and aesthetically pleasing. Your copy brackets not only look like a car part, but they don’t appear to adjust laterally. This adjustability is important for getting performance just right. You want to be able to angle them a bit forward for higher action and camber, and back a bit for lower, flatter setups.

You talk about sharp edges and hurt fingers. No one else has complained. Leather is actually softer than ebony, if I’m not mistaken. You clearly have a bias toward ebony fingers. That’s okay. Bassists who feel this way can always use my brackets and have their luthier make the fingers. Also, I have a generous return policy. If my BassCapos were as bad as you say, then I would think that many bassists would have asked for their money back. So far, not a one, and I’ve been selling them for over fifteen years. Ken, you’re all alone out there.
http://www.basscapos.com/images/scroll001-325x234.jpg

cheap copies?
 

Ron, Rob, Rob, Rob...You're a funny guy.:D:D:D:D

My capos adjust finer than your twist around ones.

By Generic I mean you BUY them and put them on. You can't BUY the Fingers on mine from a store. Mine have hand made Ebony fingers, rounded without any sharp edges at the end.

I have played yours and they are not as comfortable to use as mine. Also, the Ebony is lighter in weight than the rubber covered brass. Just check the specific gravity between ebony and brass and compare, please!

You invented the screw type adjustment? Well then, they are copies if that's the case!:p

It is good for Luthiers out there that can just stick something on an extension and not have to make it by hand. Much much easier to do and cheaper labor wise. It's just not as good in my opinion.

I am not alone out here on this. Most people with professionally made C-Extensions (all of it) are professionally employed and too busy to talk on Forums. Between rehearsals and concerts they have to practice. ;)

Ken, Ken, Ken,

Okay, I'll bite.

Adjustability? One turn changes the height by 1/24th of an inch. That is the rough adjustment. From there you can adjust the vertical position or angle of the mounting bracket on the extension via the screws. Your brackets don't seem to offer this flexibility. What do you do for adjustment, add washers?

Weight? I never talked about weight. Sure ebony is lighter than brass, but still I bet my fingers are lighter than yours. My standard finger (including threaded stud, and there is no nut) weighs 18 grams. Also, LEATHER, no rubber!!!

"stick something on"? Well that was the whole idea of my product. Why should a luthier (who is not a machinist or engineer) have to make something like this over and over again, one at a time? Do the best luthiers always make their own endpin sockets or tailpieces? Does doing so improve the instrument? Also, how is it that your copy brackets are not "sticking something on"? Is each unit custom made? They all look pretty much alike too me.

"You invented the screw type adjustment?"
I didn't really invent anything. I was, however, the first to employ U-slots for C-Extension mounting brackets. The idea seems obvious now, but I was doing it commercially for like 12 years before any copies appeared. As far as the "screw adjustment", if you mean adjusting height by number of turns, then I'm still the only one who does it.

"Most people with professionally made C-Extensions (all of it) are professionally employed and too busy to talk on Forums".
Yeah! and many of them are enjoying a high quality closure device - made by me!

Ken, I know that I won't turn you around on your opinion of my product, but I do respect you for letting my posts stand on your forum. I'm probably doing myself more harm than good by writing here anyway, but best wishes!

rob rob rob...
 

I don't mind at all the discussion or arguments. Some swear the Mechanical Extension is better. There, we stand in the same ditch fighting together. And then, there are the 5-string players telling all of us that Extensions are a cheap fix for not having a 5er.

For me, I like moving the capos without looking when moving fast. If I forget to open the C or any other note, I bend my wrist and quickly slide it upwards along the extension opining all the 'fingers' with my forefinger knuckles near my thumb. In Martial Arts we call this 'ridge hand'. I do it with the fingers pointing down and my wrist up as I hit it back fast opening it in a second or so between notes having forgot to open it before. Even when not forgetting, I use this method to open it so its like a reverse or upside down ridge hand.

Normal hand/fingers like this; http://www.skkifwatford.co.uk/Techni...20hand%202.JPG

With your Capos Rob, they are a bit small for one and the outer edge with the covered brass shows is sharp or squared there and not rounded or softened around the edges like the ebony fingers. Can you make the fingers bigger and with rounded edges?

OK, I'll join the fray. Rob, I think your capos are a good second choice for making an extension chromatic. If they were the best thing out there, you'd see Robertson's, Mario Lamarre, Dan Hachez, Jeff Bollbach, Robbie McIntosh and me using them exclusively. I do use your capos on occasion when retro-fitting an existing extension or when a player needs to economize. But I prefer ebony for its aesthetics and feel. If you made brackets that looked as pretty as your current ones, that worked with standard 1/4 x 20 hardware, and they stood off a bit more, I would buy them. I believe there is a place for both pre-made capos and custom ones. Ken has an opinion that you don't like, but the world is full of people who disagree yet get along.

Well, Geez! why didn't you say so before?;) I'd be happy to make some mounts to fit your needs. I agree that there are advantages to wood fingers. They can be shaped artistically to fit a particular bass, and even a special wood or finish chosen. There are those like Ken who simply prefer a larger surface for finger contact, and some people want a tail so they can have thumb operation. I designed my fingers to be simple, compact, unobtrusive, and universal. It's impractical for me to offer too many options, and I can keep my price low by offering only the single design in two lengths.

Many bassists and luthiers are happy with my finger design (otherwise I wouldn't be in business!) but I realize that this doesn't fit everyone's needs. For them, I encourage the use of wood fingers, which can be easily mated with my mounting hardware. I am happy to sell the brackets by themselves, so the luthier can go wild making the fingers, and not have to worry about machining.

One final note. I use the slightly larger stud because it is not only more stable, but allows for my "internal brake" which eliminates the need for a locknut for resistance adjustment. Also, the threaded approach makes for simpler height adjustment. This makes the assembly simpler (fewer parts), lighter, more reliable, and easier to install than with the traditional approach. I think that these innovations are a step forward on the design side, but I conceed that it also makes later resistance adjustments more difficult. I am no fundamentalist. Arnold, if you want a bracket with a 1/4" thru hole and appropriate races for washers, I'd be happy to accommodate you! Let's talk.

Good stuff, Rob. I agree with you that the bracket should be threaded. One other thing I've been doing is using small machine screws to mount the brackets. It's a pain in the butt drilling and tapping all those holes in the ebony, but the excellent hold makes it worthwhile.

The manufacturing industry in the United States is dying. If someone in the U.S. has an idea for any musical instrument related product I suggest that we keep all aspects of production right here in the USA. And have it made locally.

When I designed my "capos" it was about five years ago, before I had even looked at Mr. Anzellotti's. None of these designs are a novel concept, just a proven style of adjustable bracket found on all types of assemblies for hundreds or thousands of years. I was asked to come up with something to install on extensions with poorly functioning stops. It seems like mine ended up being a similar concept but easier and cheaper to make. If you have files, a few drills, taps and a drill press you could make them. Also, the standoff distance or bracket width is adjustable - simply disassemble the two brass parts, belt sand until you have the dimension that works then re polish.

I like the idea of an adjustable, easy to mount bracket. It just makes sense in many ways. With that said I think ebony fingers are much more comfortable and allow an individual, artistic touch. Kind of like decorating a bridge.

Arguing about who's capos are most attractive is pretty dumb. I'd say a more important question is do you want to be at the mercy of someone else's product or design? No, you don't.

Now THATS one mean hand !!

I'd hate to be in the pit next to you !! One could loose ones entire scroll (if not your life ) in a split second if something went wrong whilst
trying to martial art the extension into tune !

I would opt to wear a bikers helmet or even have a sniper on standby in the wings just in case ! :D:D:D:D

If that were completely true, this forum would not exist. But the gist of your sentence is on the money. I want to know who were the "geniuses" who decided that America could have a vibrant economy without anyone making much of anything? Did they really think we could all just swap information and loans and that this would somehow lead us down a positive economic path? (Sorry for the thread derail.)

last derail post..
 

Arnold, it's the physical labor that keeps it afloat. 'Paper pushing'!:eek:

No, let's talk about 'FINE' tuning the extension Capos. Rob mentioned his full turn measurement (1/24th of an inch) which is just a tad over .040" (1 div. by 24). That is nearly a 'G' string in height. WAY, way too crude for my taste. I can adjust my Capos with the top screw and back nut just a tweak as the leather settles or if I change gauges of strings. If I use an Original Flatchrome at almost .110, or a Flex Stark at .106 or a regular Flex 92 e/c at .102 I can tweak the tension just right. That would be 1/10th the need adjustment from .106" to .102" which is .004", not .040". HUGE difference. Turning a screw 10x what you need is NOT a fine adjustment in my book. Not even close. Sorry!

Some people just get used to what they have. Once you have seen the other side of the road, you may not go back.

derail postings...
 

The Manuf. in USA Rants are to be discussed in the Bull Pit. I moved one post here to the 'Pit.

If it's not about 'Show Your Extensions', then post it where it belongs.

Which Bass was that Wayne. I have had so many of them. As far as Rob's Capos, I agree they are easy and ready made as compared to the hand made/fit Ebony Capos I get on my Extensions from Arnold and Jeff BUT, I have played Basses with those Capos as well. You get what you pay for. They are not as easy to use as far as flipping them open fast or playing them blind above your head and they do not adjust as fine as far as tension goes. You have limits there to the fixed ration of the screw threads.

If you can't get them handmade or afford them to the quality of the ones made by hand by the better Luthiers that do these then Rob's would be better than bad handmade ones. I would place them as an alternative but not as a premium choice, in my opinion.;)

I am about to get three or four more extensions made in the next few months. These will be on the new inspired Storioni copy bass, the Storioni (former att.) bass itself, the Mougenot by Jeff and possibly the Malvolti labeled Florentine bass I just got. I don't seem to be able to do without one now that I've been using an Extension of this grade for the last several years. I played some Jazz sets last week and even used it there. Having it and not using it seems a waste, written for or not!:eek: (don't tell the conductor, please..:()

??
 

[quote=wayne holmes;20746]
Pics don't sometimes? I have no idea why. That is an Extension from Jeff, the 2nd of 3 he has made for me so far. All 3 seem about the same master quality. The 4th is yet to come, on the Mougenot he is restoring now.

More X's
 

I have posted pics of most of the extensions I've had made but since my last pic post here I have had a few more done. Two of the basses have been sold already but there's no harm in showing off their extended heads. These include a Jacquet-Gand, the Schnitzer-Smith-Riccardi commission and the original Riccardi-Storioni.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpg

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpg

Enjoy.. :cool:

and..
 

The above 3 extensions were by Arnold. Here are two more from Jeff Bollbach. One is the Mougenot and one the Neuner.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpg
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpg

The Neuner is also a Bass I use personally for just about any type of gig but the Storioni is currently my 'classy' Orchestra bass along with the Hart depending on which way the wind blows.. ;)

New Extension
 

Hi guys. I installed another C extension and would like to show it around here. This time I benefited from earlier experimentation and I'd like to think this one is a bit more refined. No need for the bottom of the extension to be flat and straight for the thumb because the side rail takes care of that duty.

Thoughts?

Side rail? Interesting. I wouldn't screw someing like that into my Scrolls but I can see the sharp gear edges can get painful. Practice Beethoven 6th's storm movement on the Extension, the individual 16ths and you will see with each bass what needs to be done. You can even buff the edges of the gears to get the sharp edges softened. One old bass gears, many of them are worn and smooth by now. My Tarr is very smooth now.

Speaking of the Tarr, the page isn't up yet but I have some pics. They are dark and I will probably re-take them or lighten them up for the page but here's a look at the Extension Arnold made for it;

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-right.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpg

The fit of the Extension and String on and around the Scroll was a challenge on this being that the face of the head is so thin. Arnold made it work both artistically and structurally as well.

The rail was there before I got there but the owner of the bass makes great use of it.

As I finished this one up I was thinking about how much work these are. Very challenging. - they have to function well and be beautiful to look at.

yes..
 

Yes, she has to have looks and brains.. :)

And now for something completely different: I understand that C extensions have to be what they are when converting a standard bass.

BUT -- they do seem unwieldy. Now, regarding new construction, or in the event a bass has had its pegbox and/or scroll mangled to the point of having to be rebuilt anyway, and there is no historical reason to simply copy what was there, has anybody designed or executed 1+3 pegbox with the extension and stops integrated into the overall design and scroll, and not just as an add-on?

^^^ http://www.lamario.ca/extension.php?lang=english

Nice. Thanks.

new extension
 

I'll post one last C extension I made as I seem to be honing in on a particular look. This is installed on a Calin Wultur "Elite" bass.

Any thoughts?

Very nice looking work.

Thanks, Ken.