D extension

Extension $
 

Ken

Is it really as labour intensive as they say to make a proper extension? I saw you said you were making them in your shop now, did you make the one for the hart? It looks great.

"labor" sorry my auto spell thinks we are in europe

I never said I made them in my shop, sorry.

All my extensions are by Arnold or Jeff so far.

Compared to other extensions I have seen, these are the best so far. I have tried other extensions from various basses that come thru the Orchestra and basses that come in here and sometimes, I feel sorry for them. The one with those 'easy to install' Capos cannot be flipped with the back edge of your fore finger on the fly. More likely with these and others with sharp points, you will hurt yourself. Using a full hand or two hands even to hold your bass and flip or close a capo makes a 5-string bass look more appealing.

Woops
 

I guess I read than incorrectly, still a nice extension though.

No one noticed that my odd D extension is actually made from a single fingerboard with the extension cut out.
Half size string length with added 2 notes on a 1/8th size bass. Tuned A D G C with a low G.
Bass bar and soundpost modifications were necessary.
The bass sounds great.

wow, how do you change the strings? esp. at the two lower machines.

??
 

What is the string length on your bass? And, the low? C tuning is with the extension included or in addition?

That's... unusual, at least! :D

Got any more pics? What do you use the bass for?

D extension
 

Lemur had this bass for a while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2wWDdPSvnQ

It's the only other D extension I've seen.

Watching them both open that extension, they need both hands to do so. Opening that thing on the fly if at all possible with one hand of the edge or it while playing will definitely cause injury. That Extension would not be useful in an Orchestra unless pre-set to D or E. Also, fingering the E note with the 'flipper' open doesn't look easy as well to get in there close.

If you have an Extension, it should be to a 'C' and nothing less. Why bother at all putting something on? I can tune down and back up as easy or more to D or Eb without any alteration to the bass. I did a rehearsal last week playing the New World Symphony, the 3rd time in a year as I did it with two other Orchestras last season. In the beginning are two low Eb's and I used my C-Extensions set at first to Eb for the start and later down the page I closed it to E for the rest of the piece. Last week I just tuned down to Eb for the start and tuned back up with no sweat being that it was just a rehearsal, leaving my bigger basses at home that I have extensions on.

I think putting on a D-extension is like doing it half way. It makes no sense to me and if you can't change back and forth while playing without interruption, it's not a workable extension in my opinion.

Well heres how it went:
I started of with a 1/8th size bass. (about 80cm i think?).
Its my feeling that at least for me qualitatively, a half size string length is the absolute minimum. So 97 cm. In order to achieve this with the same neck heel note, I had to extend the string length in both directions. I have a D extension on my Romanian 1/2 size with 97cm string length so this bass was made to match. BTW the D extension with the open A and D is great. The notes reinforce and actually swell when in tune.
Extra long fingerboard. Normal width tapered in the back to the neck width. With one tuner turned around and most of the bottom curve to the pegbox taken away, the two extra notes can be fingered in one easy motion.

Since moving the bridge down sets the bridge on a stiffer part of the top, some internal mods were done, and a lot of tension was taken off with a very high French style tailpiece. This is a low tension system. Sound post is above the bridge.

To bring out the upper bass resonance peak when playing acoustically a hole was made in the shoulder to compensate for the small cavity (and top and string length) that is expected to reproduce the same tuning as a normal instrument. In a smaller system dealing with the same low tuning, the alignment changes and the bass is much more critical and sensitive to small changes. The bass was made to amplify, but has a well balanced sound acoustically if not as loud. The goal was to make the bass work correctly "mechanically". I found that by only amplifying just the missing parts of the lowest octave it can sound like a well balanced normal sized instrument played acoustically. Mostly I play fully amplified though. As far as comfort, It balances well and the feel of the board and the string spacing are even better than my 1/2 size.

Oh, one last note. Its now tuned a d g c with a g extension. so I only lose 3 half steps. Evah pirazzi c was the only string I could find that wasn't thin and twangy. Same thickness as the spirocore G. A pleasure to play. The bass is now antiqued black like the bass I bought from Ken in 84. It was immediately taken more seriously as people tend to hear with their eyes.

It is is a bit more difficult, but nothing that a long nose plier couldn't make much easier.

Ok, so you are doing something completely different here. Especially with the sound post above the bridge. That, I think will be trouble down the road. This thread about C-extensions is mainly for Orchestra basses as I see very little use for it in other areas of music. You seem to have found something else to apply it too and with a smaller that regular bass. Good luck with it.

Can you explain why you think the post above will cause trouble down the line?

Was the post perfectly fit to begin with? If not, it is already damaging the Top. Possibly it will crack the top or poke thru it. I have never heard of the post being above the bridge. Playing a 1/2 sized basses with an extension and tuned up a 4th is a Tenor bass of sorts, not a double bass. So, everything is weird about this. Post some pictures so we don't all get a headache trying to imagine this. It is way off topic anyway so we might as well end the story with some visuals. ;)

With all due repect, anyone concerned with the mechanics of a bass might be interested. If not, no harm done.
Is it off topic then?

The soundpost of course was refitted. Maybe you thought I would have just moved it as it was after doing all this work. Where's the argument here? I see none. I think that it arises from its unconventionality.

Haven't jazz players used extensions by the way? Is this forum only for classical bassists. Is it only for traditional techniques? is it open minded?
I would hope so.
I would hope to find any interesting or even controversial information in a forum such a this. Is that not what a forum is about?
We can all learn something here.

The bass works well as a contrabass too. And like I said, as a tenor bass, with the extension it only loses three 1/2 steps.

One thing, when I say above, I don't mean clear of the foot. Same position as what would be called below.

Finally finished extension for my Geiger bass!
 

http://www.smithbassforums.com/[...t/100_9816.jpghttp://www.smithbassforums.com/[...t/100_9816.jpghttp://i389.photobucket.com/albums/o...t/100_9816.jpg

Slideshow:
http://s389.photobucket.com/albums/o...view=slideshow

I still haven't mounted it. Also need to smooth out the varnish a bit. This is the only one I've made from scratch. I ended up with just enough room to bring the string back over the scroll and over a second smaller pulley which sends the string down to the "A" tuner.

Ken, you make a valid point about the sharp ends of the fingers, but the example you saw was very early work. For many years now I have a greatly improved leather wrap, including a larger radius at the end. If this is still not enough, I can on special request wrap a thicker band of leather and make an even softer edge, but everyone out there who uses them seems perfectly happy the way they are. There is an aesthetic thing here too. Some people prefer so see less bulk on their scroll!

Looks great, I was thinking a two piece extension would make routing the string around the scroll easy. Glad to see someone implement it the way I imagined. Here is an extension I finished last night.

Yeah. It would certainly be much more difficult to do a multi-pulley design out of a single piece - at least with my skill level. I was able to do all of the slotting for the string path and pulleys with a table saw. I know most people consider it a crude tool, but I bet I could make a working clock with one if I had to! I chose this piece of purple heart because I knew that with a clear varnish it would exceptionally compliment the red varnish in my Geiger. It will be awhile before I can actually mount it since the bass is in the shop for another repair, but I'll post results when I can.

Rob, I am all for innovation but for ease of quick flipping them from the edge with a back hand motion, the outer edge of your capos are still at a 90 degree angle and not rounded on the front edge, just around. That is the area I am referring to. Look at the ebony fingers on these examples and see what I mean about rounded. Not the top, but the outer edges.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...s/scrollFR.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...ages/hart9.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...roll-front.jpg

Here you can see varying degrees of rounding regardless of the mounting method, size or shape of the fingers. If your Capos could be smooth on the edges like these, it would make a world of difference.

The other argument is the tension. You said one full turn was 1/24". Is that correct? If the threads were finer it would adjust that much finer? Correct? Well, if I go from a .105" diameter E-string to a .108" diam. string, I can turn my top screw just a fraction, not a full turn, so it feels the same. With a 1:24 ratio, it would not be possible to adjust .001-.003" as yours have a fixed amount per turn. If I go from .102" to .108" it falls in the middle again. One turn too little and 2 turns too much. I adjust my 'fingers' as the weather changes and the string slightly grooves itself into the finger pads or when I change strings to a different gauge. I think .004166" (1/24th") is a bit hit and miss to get the tension just right if you are finicky about it.

Your newest extension does look nice however. :cool:

If I had a table saw, that's how I would do it. A router works fine too. You'll notice Mine goes around the scroll as well, but it's one piece. I took some trickery to make it all work, but the string intunates nicely.Your solution is very elegant looking however. I like how the holes are blind on the one side. Someday I'll do a two piece extension like you've done.

Ken, as I said, I could always make a thicker leather wrap and do more roundover. There have been no no requests for this.

Let us separate tension and height. On my latches, tension (rotational resistance) is "set at the factory" if you will, and is unrelated to intonation. Only finger height and to a degree angle of incidence affect where the finger stops on the string.

As for adjustment, the slots in the mounting brackets allow for a lot of movement, so the Capos are plenty adjustable beyond # of screw turns. This is not the case with the E-Stop I concede, but there are ways to deal with this, and all my installers seem to make it work without incident.

As for later intonation adjustments, it doesn't seem to be necessary except when changing string gauge. A dimple presses into the leather during the first days, but the leather doesn't wear or further compress after that. Perhaps it varies from bass to bass, but on my main axe I've had Capos installed for fifteen years, and I've only ever adjusted them when changing string gauge.

My closure system is a significant departure from standard designs, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work:)

You can do alot with a router, of course. Did you channel from the back and then glue in a patch where it touches the scroll? Thinking more about it, this also seems like a good approach, whichever tool you use. Still, you're right. doing a two piece means you've got a nice flat surface against the table. It's gotta be easier!

No, I just did some very careful drilling. One hole from the back of the extension, and then another connecting that hole to the tuning shaft.

Three more Extensions..
 

These 3 Extensions were made by Luthier Mike Magee near Pittsburgh, Pa.
http://www.smithbassforums.com/attac...8&d=1373916496http://www.smithbassforums.com/attac...2&d=1373913967http://www.smithbassforums.com/attac...9&d=1373913455

These are very well made, as are the other extensions I have gotten from Arnold Schnitzer and Jeff Bollbach. These have very good mechanics but different than both Jeff's and Arnold's work which are different to each other as well. All 3 of these Luthiers now use tunable brackets with hand made ebony fingers.

Here's an extension I made for my Lott model bass.

The stick is Jarrah, the latches are an extremely hard local desert wood called Doolalia. Harder than ebony.

I chose not to use ebony for the body or fingerboard, as I wanted the extension to look a part of the scroll, not as a chunky addition.

Wow! That is a nice design and nice work. It looks like you brought the Long E string around the top wheel for a 180 degree turn, then on a second wheel, diverted the string to the "E string" gear. That trick is new to me.

You have a Lott bass. I recall that Henry Scott of the Philadelphia Orchestra played a Lott bass while he was in the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra prior to his tenure in the Philly. I believe his was of very dark brown varnish.

Very nice job on your extension.

-Dr. C.