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Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB) (http://www.smithbassforums.com//index.php)

- Luthier's Corner (http://www.smithbassforums.com//forumdisplay.php?f=12)

- - Starting a DB Project (http://www.smithbassforums.com//showthread.php?t=1706)

Ken Smith

04-29-2011 04:48 PM

yes..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben E garcia (Post 22529)

Correct.
So Ken To answer your previous question the bar is 1" thick

Yes, you mentioned that earlier indirectly. Ask a few Luthiers that have done a lot of Bars, maybe Arnold or Jeff and see for that size bass what might be best. Most Bars blanks I have seen are thicker in the rough form. I just don't know what to advise here other than the thickness might matter.

Ruben E garcia

05-02-2011 11:12 AM

Springing?

Springing or not springing the bass bar, at least a little?

Ken Smith

05-02-2011 01:26 PM

no..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben E garcia (Post 22547)

Springing or not springing the bass bar, at least a little?

NONE, Ever, unless you want the top to sink at the ends sooner or later. Flush fit only. Sprung Bars break basses, period.

Ruben E garcia

05-02-2011 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith (Post 22548)

NONE, Ever, unless you want the top to sink at the ends sooner or later. Flush fit only. Sprung Bars break basses, period.

Yes I remember you mentioning something similar before, thumb pressure on the bar, very little or no pressure

Ken Smith

05-02-2011 03:51 PM

none

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben E garcia (Post 22550)

Yes I remember you mentioning something similar before, thumb pressure on the bar, very little or no pressure

The Bar should be fit Flush to the Top, no pressure at all. Even clamping without forcing the ends down at all.

Ruben E garcia

05-06-2011 11:09 AM

911

Ok I am going a little crazy with the Edges:
I can not make the south part of the top to flush, everything else is making contact with the surface, and If I keep removing material from the whole top so the south part can touch, I am going to be removing a lot of material from the original top... I don't know what is wrong... I also notice that the top curve from west to east is not perfect should i be concern about that? u can see it the pictures ???

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0200.jpg
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...IMAG0196-1.jpg

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0197.jpg
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0198.jpg
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0199.jpg

Ken Smith

05-06-2011 12:54 PM

Fit

Show me/us the Fitting problem you are having and do not remove anything original.

Sometimes the Blocked frame shifts. Sometimes you have shrinkage of the Top grains and the Top is shy of the Ribs i n the lower bout. In this case, The Ribs are cut and trimmed at the Block. For this you have to remove the lower Ribs from all blocks and re-fit it o the Corner possibly but if not, just at the Tailblock, Cut and pull together to fit the Top and maybe Back. The Plates should overhang just a bit. In the Blocks with Ribs twisted inwards, then the Top will overhang more. Still, nothing is ever perfect on an old bass.

Ruben E garcia

05-06-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith (Post 22578)

I see what are u saying, I am sorry I did not explain my self clearly, the problem that I am having is the south part of the edges are not making contact with the flat surface, in this case the Edges thickness is about 7mm, for me to make the south part to touch, I will have to remove original material from the top edges bottom and this will result and a thinner than the original edge… I know that is not right… I don’t know if the top got distort during my repairs or what should I do…
Should I clamp it knowing that there is a little stress anyways?

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0200.jpg

but the rest of the top is resting okhttp://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0204.jpg

Ken Smith

05-06-2011 03:09 PM

Show the Top sitting on the ribs, dry clamped around lightly. See what gives and doesn't. The bass Bar is in already?

Ruben E garcia

05-06-2011 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith (Post 22581)

Show the Top sitting on the ribs, dry clamped around lightly. See what gives and doesn't. The bass Bar is in already?

It still have some of the old bar or most to the old bar since I did shave down the bass bar hump only.

Ken Smith

05-06-2011 03:51 PM

bar hump?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben E garcia (Post 22582)

It still have some of the old bar or most to the old bar since I did shave down the bass bar hump only.

Let's see what you did with that Bar. Was it angled slightly across the grain from top to bottom or straight with the grain? Is there a crack under the bar or only up to the bar at the bottom?

Ruben E garcia

05-06-2011 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith (Post 22583)

Let's see what you did with that Bar. Was it angled slightly across the grain from top to bottom or straight with the grain? Is there a crack under the bar or only up to the bar at the bottom?

I did shave it a lot just enought so the bar let the top to sit in a flat surface to make sure that it's flat:

Original:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/100_4403.jpg

now:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0194.jpg

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0170.jpg

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...6/IMAG0174.jpg

a small crack in the botom

Ruben E garcia

05-07-2011 05:00 PM

today I removed the old bass bar

Ken Smith

05-07-2011 07:25 PM

Scored lines? Black ink?

The shadow of the oxidation difference is plenty enough to see where the old bar was for reference regardless of where the new bar is going.

Ruben E garcia

05-08-2011 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith (Post 22591)

Scored lines? Black ink?

The shadow of the oxidation difference is plenty enough to see where the old bar was for reference regardless of where the new bar is going.

No ink just pencil marks, but should I place the new one on the same spot?

Ken Smith

05-08-2011 05:53 PM

same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben E garcia (Post 22595)

No ink just pencil marks, but should I place the new one on the same spot?

I can't see top to bottom well enough on a straight line but if not angled, angle it slightly more. There is a formula I read years ago for this but forgot where I read it. It has to do I think with the length of the bass and possibly the width. Not sure. Ask Arnold or Jeff. They have dome more 'correct' bars than the average 10 or more luthiers.

Ruben E garcia

05-18-2011 08:47 AM

Some Progress, Finger Patch by the Bass Bar Bottom

Arnold Schnitzer

05-18-2011 09:19 AM

Ruben, most luthiers agree that patches with straight edges that parallel the grain lines are not the best idea. There is a good deal of strength along this line, which can contribute to forming a new crack. Hope this is helpful.

Ruben E garcia

05-18-2011 03:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer (Post 22633)

Attachment 2097

I did not think about that, I have seem many repairs made this way, its does make sence that an
straight grain patch can cause problems, in this case the patch is being feather in all 4 the edges, and its also small.
I suppose next time that If I do an square patch make sure it doesnt align with the grain, or make it oval.

Arnold! Any advise on the bass bar placement ???

Arnold Schnitzer

05-19-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben E garcia (Post 22636)

Yes. It goes on the E side.

Ba-dum-bump!

Seriously, you want to first choose your bridge width. In general this is not much wider than the distance between upper f-hole eyes. Then you lay out the bass bar so it is slightly outside the center of the bridge imprint. The angle cannot be set by the violin-maker's method because basses are not standardized. I personally like the distance from the center line to the bass bar to be a bit more than half at the top what it is on the bottom.

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