Passione Strings (Regular & Stark)
 

Hi fellas,

I was wondering if anyone has tried the new Passione strings from Pirastro. I know they haven't been released yet but I know some people who have been sent the prototypes. Apparently these strings are Pirastro's answer to Belcantos but have more color.

humm?
 

The name vaguely sounds familiar. Have they used this name for Violin or Cello in the past and just now making them for bass?

Either way, I have just emailed Pirastro to get the full story on them. Sounds like another winner approaching the finish line.

Thank's for the news about them.

Ken,

Yes the name is also used for violin/cello strings. Check your mailbox

Anyone tried these yet? They seem to be available now:

http://quinnviolins.com/qv_passionebass.shtml

Do we have any idea how they're supposed to compare to the other strings in the lineup, or details on how/from what they're made?

ok..
 

I tested them for Pirastro and am still doing so. I put a set on the Candi about two months ago and think they are great. They are soft feeling and remind me most of the Evah Weichs but in the same thinner gauges of the Flex 92s. They are steel rope core but have more flexibility than just about any other string so far. Like I said, the remind me of Evahs Weichs the most but in a thinner gauge.

They also bow great and sound ultra sweet. I have one other set of the same strings and was thinking just the other day to put them on my Sirleto bass. That bass is brighter and tighter feeling/sounding than the slightly shorter length Candi.

I consider theses a Weich/soft type string as they are. I would like to see another gauge slightly bigger and tighter for Orchestra playing. I think the Orchestra players will find this current set too soft to dig in on.

Now, I got these about month or two ago so if they have already made changes, I am not aware of them.

Regardless, they are great strings.

How did you find the pizz Ken?
thanks, Geoff

pizz?
 

Well, they sound nice and sweet, not dry at all like the Flexocors can on some basses. More like a mix between evah weichs and spiro weichs BUT, I have not tried the Spiros on this bass. I did have the Evahs before and these are sweeter sounding with more sustain. A totally different string. Definitely worth trying out regardless of the bass or style of playing.;)

I will be emailing my report to them shortly and maybe a link to this thread. TB has one as well but it's a bit cluttered. Too many non-pro players without a bow passing judgment on a bowing string. This is often the case over there. To test a string, it should be on a decent bass with an experienced player. Otherwise, it might be the bass or the player that is the problem, not the string.:eek:

ok, ok..
 

You guys got me thinking. I was going to change the strings on the Sirleto Bass last week to maybe use in the Fall but then decided it was not worth the hour to do the work and left the old Helicore's on the bass.

I just came in the office to do a little work and practice and pulled out the Sirleto and the other set of the Passione strings and started to change them. I only played them briefly but changing them one at a time I was able to test each new string with the remaining old Helicores which are not all that old. They were fairly new and came off another bass and on to this bass so just slightly used.

The differences/comparisons I noticed right away in seconds were regarding the tension, tone, bowing and overall feel.

Tension: They are lighter tension than Helicore Orchestras. All gauges but the D are slightly smaller. The E being the biggest difference but the D was slightly bigger by about .002".

Tone: The strings are sweeter and ring more freely than the Helicores.

Bowing: Right away I noticed they bowed easier. Also with less tension, the A string which had a noticeable 'wolf' with the Helicores is almost gone with the Passione's.

Overall feel: With the tension a bit less now the strings feel slightly higher as there is less tension now on the Bridge, letting the Top breathe a bit more freely. I noticed this as well with another bass recently taking off one set and putting on another with less tension. This is also good for the health of older basses as well. The Sirleto however is 'barely legal' and just turned 18 this year. The Top is well arched and has tight even grained spruce in virgin condition. No cracks but a few nicks on the edges. So it's just Legal and still Virgin.. :eek: This is a bass I am talking about guys so keep your comments clean..:mad:..:D

The Sirleto is now more fun to play with these string than just an hour ago or ever before. I think these strings will stay on the bass until they need replacing. The only other string I have ever had on it that I can remember were an older set of Flexocors and that was when I first got it about 2-3 years ago or so. Recently I had the Back restored and the Gears changed which afterwords I just put on whatever was lying around, the Helicore's.

I still think that the gauge of these strings feel a bit soft in comparison to other Orchestra strings. I would like to see Pirastro come out with a slightly heavier gauge/tension model string for heavy Orchestra playing. These might be too soft for some players, some basses or both.

This new string model is here to stay. Now we just need a few more gauges within the same formula.

Also, on a separate note, I want to thank Abe who first told me about these strings before they came out on the market.

Ken - what do you use to measure string thickness? Micrometer?

That or a digital caliper. I have both. Measured in thousandths of inches.

Some countries also measure in fractions of millimeters. Inches is my language and most common in strings as well.

That's disappointing...that's essentially my only problem with the (rapidly aging) set of Belcantos I'm using now. I was hoping these would fix that if they're Pirastro's "Belcantos, but better" string :(

+1

Seems like all the newer strings are in the same direction; fat, soft, sloppy... I'd like to see some advances and new choices in good orchestra strings rather than low tension strings trying to be all things to all people.

all things to all people?
 

I don't know too many strings that can be called all things to all people. I think back a few decades Spiros worked for most for Jazz players and Flexocors for Classical cats. Now we have more choices to add to the mix, or is that confusion? lol

Too clarify my testing, the Candi is a softer tensioned instrument so the strings feel softer on it. The Sirleto is a tighter feeling action. This is also because the Candi has a new neck and thick fingerboard with CF graphite inlaid. The stiffer neck takes the tension off the strings and makes them feel softer. Before the new neck/fb job was done the bass played much tighter. Maybe my comment on the soft/loose description was not 100% accurate. The exact same strings (the 2nd set) on the Sirleto feel quite tight with a normal neck on the thinner side with an average fingerboard, not thin or thick. On the Sirleto they are NOT loose at all.

Like any string, you have to try them on YOUR bass to know for sure. Please remember that if your bass goes into a restoration and gets a totally new neck and FB like the Candi did, the strings could feel different afterwords depending on what the neck was like beforehand.

They play so effortless on the Candi. So much so that I have been grooming the Candi (warming up on it) to use on any programs I have coming up that doesn't need a C-extension. Actually, I was thinking for quite awhile about putting a C-extension on the Candi but that idea is on the shelf at the moment. I have too many other projects already going. Sending the Candi in now will just stop the work on other basses in the same shop needing to be completed so it just has to wait.

They these strings if you can. The bow great and sound sweet. The neck closest strings would be the Evah weichs. The Passiones bow slightly better, just slightly. The Candi has been tested with those as well. The Candi actually sounds great for Jazz with either string but these lighter tensioned Passiones sound sweeter with a bit more Muah than even the Evah's.

An all purpose string would be great, too bad it's impossible. My point is that most the newer strings seem geared to players with no chops putting a priority on jazz but who also have to bow on occasion. :-/

humm?
 

I am not so sure that's the direction with these. I think it was made to compete with the Belcantos. They are not as heavy in tension, gauge or tone as the Bel's are in my opinion but the slightly looser tension allows the bass to breathe more which brings out a wider spectrum of tone. I like them, bow or fingers.

I'm a 90% classical player, with a bit of folk that I tend to pizz. I personally prefer a lower tension string, including for orchestral settings. I find that instead of giving me more volume, higher tension strings generally choke up my bass and make it hard to get a warm, deep sound. I had a set of Original Flat Chromes on my bass for about six months, and it was the worst $400 I've ever spent. It wasn't a total loss, as my current set up is the Flat Chrome G with Bel Canto DAE, but with the full OFC set on my bass it was as if my bass had a big practice mute all the time.

Perhaps I am part of a growing group of classical bassists who prefer this sort of lower tensioned set up. I don't see the point in putting these monstrously thick cables on my bass that do nothing but choke up my sound and make it harder to play.

But then, my opinion's likely moot. I'm considering going gut!

Cheers,

Alex

Sure, some basses are going to do better with lower tension. The thickness of a string really doesn't have much to do with the tension though; I mean, who knows what's really inside. And with a proper setup, ease of playing shouldn't really be much of an issue, let alone a deciding factor that overrides good tone...

forgive me, the last section of my comment was a little dramatic. Most bass strings ARE thick cables in comparison to other instrumental strings, but that's neither here nor there :p .

But that being said, at the end of your comment you imply that heavier tension strings are going to have a better tone on a proper setup, while at the beginning you say some basses will do better with lower tension.

I don't think that either heavier tension or lighter tension strings are a cure-all to any bass players tone or playing woes. I go with lower tension strings because i like they way they feel under my hands, and I like the sound I can get from them. You, from your comments, seem to prefer a heavier tensioned string. There's nothing wrong with either of our views.

What I AM trying to say is to assume that those whom are buying lower tensioned strings are players "with no chops putting a priority on jazz but who also have to bow on occasion" is just a fallacy. I am not alone in my use of Bel Cantos for classical orchestral playing, and in my opinion, the higher the tension, does not necessarily a better orchestral string make.

regards,

Alex

And my original comment re chops was a little silly too. :D so yeah, you're right, there's a need for all different strings. I was just commenting on a trend that I see and find a little annoying is all, no big deal.

Ken,

What are the differences you hear & feel between the Passione & Belcanto ? I am reluctant to change the belcanto set on my Martin as they give a great "boom" and spread sonically. I briefly tried a set of original flexs when I first purchased my bass and they choked it out so I am assuming my bass likes low to medium tension. My only gripe with the belcantos is that their dynamic range is quite limited but I put up with it because of the compromise of sound and response. Are the passione strings quick to speak like the bels ?... Also, I just checked Pirastro's website and found that they offer a Stark set now. Any suggestions would be useful.

I have them on two basses (no ext.) and they play easier to me than the Bel's. I don't have the Starks yet to comment but I did suggest to Pirastro to make them. They said NO at that time. It seems as if I was not the only one testing them that gave the same feedback. The tension is similar to Weich Evahs with the gauges of the Flex. 92s and the smoothness of the Bel's and a slight bow grab/bite almost like the Spiro Weichs. Basically, about the best I have tested in a long long time.

I've been playing the starks for a couple weeks now, really nice strings. Loads of cojones and bow really well.

Starks?
 

I have a set here now but have not decided on a bass to put them on yet. I have used the regular set on 4 of my basses now. One of the sets I moved from one bass to another and the others put on fresh. One of the sets is with the extension E/C, on my Mittenwald bass.

I have to say that so far, they are the smoothest/sweetest combined strings I have found for bowing. On the basses I have them on, Pizz is no problem either regardless of the style being jazz or classical. The most common type bass of the group is my German/Mittenwald. On that bass it works either way. On the other hand, I had Flex. Starks and it was just as good all around then, just tighter and required more bow pressure. I also have them on my Sirleto, a modern Italian bass. They bowed great on that bass but was a bit dry for jazz playing. I switched them with the Evah's that were on my Malvolti so now both basses seem happier..

As soon as I have a bass that needs a new set, I will try the Starks out. Right now, all the basses are strung just fine.:)

Starks..
 

Ok, a few days ago I put the Stark Passione's on my Panormo School bass and I used it last night for the first time with them other than a few minutes here and there testing in the office. I have to say that on this bass, they feel as soft and smooth as on the other basses with the regular set. The tension and thickness is only just slightly more but feels softer then the Original Flat Chromes (with stark 92 E/C) that came off the bass. I like them!

Passione vs Belcantos
 

First off, let me say my intention is not to battle between these two very fine strings of which I use both of them.

My Hart as of this morning had a set of Belcantos on it. They were put on over a year ago but they went on the Martini for awhile and then I started testing some other strings so they were on and off 4x between the 2 basses by the time they were back on the Hart.

My Mittenwald/Neuner bass also as of a few hours ago had a fairly new set of Passione's on it.

I was curious how the Passione's would sound and feel on the Hart but because I was happy with the Bel's as they were the best string tried on that bass yet, I left well enough alone.

Today after lunch I came in to the shop and first swapped out just the G-strings. Both basses sounded better under the bow and at least as good if not better for Pizz as well. The Hart was a little smoother and softer to play and the Neuner was more focused and powerful as well. The Neuner has a higher arch Top as compared to the flatter arched Hart so probably, tension on the belly has something to do with this as well.

After swapping the rest of the strings from both basses it feels like I now have a better string on them. That is, in my opinion for my playing.

So, you never really know until you try it, at least in this case. Both basses played and sounded good before but now, each bass I think is slightly better.

Passione VS Evahs Weich?
 

Hi Ken,
Would you mind comparing the Passione regular gauge with Evahs weich?
Both for arco and pizz.
I like the way you describe strings and I feel that I get a very good idea of what they sound like. When I try to read posts on TB about strings I end up more confused! lol
Anyway, I love the Evahs on my bass for orchestral playing, and surprisingly enough if I have to use the same bass for a Jazz gig they sound great too. Occasionally I feel like they take a bit more effort to control up in thumb position.
I wonder how the Passiones compare. Especially for pizz. Are they darker sounding then Evahs? do they have more sustain than Evahs?
Thank you.

well..
 

Basically, the Evah's have a bit more 'spring' to the response with both the bow and pizz. I used them for gigs on three of my basses that I remember. The Big Gamba (I played it out only once), the Mougenot (again, just one concert week) and the Martini (big band gig).

The reason for switching around and limited use of strings with a bass is for a few reasons. I sell these basses so I need to change strings if a customer wants something else. Also for the same reasons, the basses might be out on trial or in the case of the first two mentioned, one went into restoration and the other went in for a C-Extension.

I just want to put that up so you don't get confused between what I like and the circumstances in which I used a bass or string type.

On the Orchestra work with the 2 larger basses (not the Martini), I thought they did just fine. The week long job, rehearsals and concert was a mix of Ellington and Gershwin. With 4 basses in the section I played the 'Jazz' parts which was most of the concert but also played on the Orchestra parts as well that had no Jazz part. I was center stage with the other 3 basses on my left wrapped around the side of the stage so we were in reverse order. Mainly so I could be with the Piano and drums center stage in the rhythm section. The Mougenot (pre-restoration) was pretty focused sounding with a nice bottom in the floor. I used an amp for all the jazz and it worked just fine. Bowing was good too, no complaints but I am a light-to-medium bower as far as comparing my attack to some of the stronger orchestra players.

The Martini was played on a jazz gig with a big band. For that bass, being as dark sounding as it is I had to chase the notes a bit making me dig in harder than I would if I were using Flexorcor 92s, regular or Starks, both of which I have used on that bass.

Feel under the fingers, the Evah's regular or Weichs both feel fat, almost between a gut and a steel string. Kind of like Obligato's super sized.

Upper register playing is not as easy with these with some basses as they do get short in the sound as if they are choking. I had my big Gamba with the regular Evah's on it with the C-extension out at the ISB. Everyone loved it including Leon Bosch and Lee Mesch as well as a few other top players with famous names. Then, one Orchestra played came by the shop and tried it who had been to the ISB. Now, he didn't like the upper register. I mentioned "maybe it's the strings?" He said "no, I think it's the bass because I use these on my other basses", both of which I think are modern normal sized instruments.

So, depending on how you play and what bass you are using, you might like them or might not.

Now, as compared to the Passione strings, these do not pizz with as much 'zing' at all if any. Depending on the bass, they may or may not work at all for jazz. This is a test you will have to try on your own.

The Passione strings by far, a mile maybe, bow better and smoother than any Evah string gauge and better than most all other bowing strings. They are however made more like a blend between Flex 92s in gauge and Belcantos in bow response. Think of Belcantos in a Weich gauge (do they have them? not that I have seen.), take off that slight metallic sound (like Spiros or Superflexible with a mute on the chain saw) and add the light springy sound of a Flexocor 92, the thinnest Flexocor string made in orchestra gauge. Now, this is the Passione string as best I can describe them.

Thank you!
 

great post Ken.
thank you.

+1; nice post. I agree with the take on both Evahs and Flex92s - I don't care for the former and sometimes like the latter. Though, I don't like BelCantos either. Sounds like the Passione might be a great string.

but..
 

On some basses, the Passione's might feel dead on the Pizz and not ring either on the bowing. If you bass has it, the string will duplicate it to a degree. If not, don't expect this string to give you some sound that's not in your bass.

I have had these on about 6 basses now. They work with the Bow as intended. I would not at all call this a Jazz string but then again, I have been satisfies with Flex 92s on 'my' basses for jazz and I only get compliments on my sound. Thanks really goes to the basses first as I do bring out the 'big guns' on just about every gig. Then, there's me and how you squeeze the sound out. Empathy is a good description as I play each bass slightly different accordingly!;)

Passione Starks..
 

I just took off a fairly well used set of Flex 92's Stark gauge with the E/C to match from my Neuner/Mittenwald bass. I had them on a couple of basses over the last year or so. Taking the strings on and off adds to their demise eventually.

So, I have my original set or Passione Starks (with E/C) that were also on 2 other basses as well that I had kept around as spares. So, with nearly as much playing but as much on and off business, I just put them on the Neuner and they sound good.

I think they hold up just as well as the 92s have for age and bass changing. They actually feel great on the Neuner. It might be the best string for that bass yet. I'll leave them on for the rest of the season and see how they hold up as I use this bass for some of my concerts and most of my rehearsals as well as any Jazz gigs I do.