Bridge adjusters and sound for Arco
Hi Guys,
I was wondering if anyone have ever noticed any difference in sound when installing aluminum bridge adjusters for arco playing only. I am the only one that has adjusters in the section. The other 4 basses have solid bridges. One of my basses has the Kolstein bridge with the wooden adjusters. And it seems fine. My other bass has aluminum adjusters. I never cared because that is my "jazz" bass. But occasionally I'll take it to an Orchestra rehearsal and I've been wondering if the brightness that I am hearing is just more noticeable when playing arco. Thank you. |
Brightness?
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I will bet you that the difference is the bass first and the Strings second that makes the difference. The Adjusters are way down the list in my book. For me, I like the adjusters that are the easiest to turn. I am not going to try various types in the same bridge and bass to see how the sound changes. You can't compare adjusters from one bass to another. It can only be compared with the exact same bass and bridge. |
The bass has no label, but I've had it for a long time and tried many different strings on it. Right now I have a set of Obligatos, and after a good warm up I feel that I can get a good sound out of it.
I guess I was wondering if someone who had installed aluminum adjusters on their bridge had noticed any differences. I also would think that adjusters would be way down the list, but I thought I'd ask anyway, in case anyone had any other thoughts on it. thank you. |
$.02 (at best)
I've played a couple of basses with the same bridge before/after adjusters were added, but only briefly on either side. IMO, yes, it changes the sound, a little, but not for the better or worse - just different. And not enough to convince me it isn't just in my head, either. Like Ken, I think if you're going to put adjusters in a bridge, get the biggest easiest-to-grab ones you can find - they all mess up the look of a nice bridge anyway.
Personally, I don't get enough use out of adjusters to make them worthwhile. I think they look funny, and I'd rather just keep two bridges (if needed) - if the climate in a particular area changes enough over the seasons to really need adjusters, you probably need two soundposts anyway - might as well swap them both and clean your fingerboard at the same time... ;) |
Hi Eduardo:
I don’t know if this article helps to answer exactly your question, they compared different types of adjusters and the results are very interesting http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/english/dbb/dbb.htm |
really?
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That's what they did, Ken. They tried to keep the conditions as identical as possible in order to isolate the changes that occur with the different adjusters.
It's very interesting, but I take it all with a grain of salt. It probably makes a difference, but it's hard to say how much of a difference. It should be noted that I don't use adjusters because I don't like the way they sound. |
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I live in Colorado, and I think I am going to pay very close attention to how my bass behave when summer comes. I might wanna go for a solid bridge on my Orchestral bass. Thank you. |
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For what I know, that is not a lot J or I may say for what I have read, solid aluminum adjusters made from one piece of metal are the overall best adjusters to have install in your bass…
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oh?
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I prefer turning with some kind of grip on then rather than the sharp gnarled metal tearing up my fingers. The Walnut modified adjusters from the Shen guys (Paul S.) are my favorite overall. Next are the black Ebony/Plastic? ones that several Luthiers here use. I forget what they are called but Arnold uses them. The smaller Aluminum or even brass wheeled ones are just to hard to turn most of the times. |
i like these: http://www.moser-klangwerkstatt.com/...produkt1.shtml
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moser
I've always wondered about these - can you give some idea how good they are? Or what experience you have had with them? Thanks!
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i have the mosers on my main bass, the titanium version, and have also one in aluminium with an integrated full circle.
i like that you can adjust the feet seperatly. i like to experiment a lot with strings, incl. mixing different G/D and A/E (for example plain gut/spiro or oliv/evah). the independence of the bridge feet allow me to lift the G/D and lower the E/A. plus: they are absolutely easy to turn under full pressure. they are made very precise, like a swiss watch movement |
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It's funny how that works, Arnold. Different strokes for different folks, I spose. I reckon if I lived in a place with a harsher climate, I would change my tune. But, being in Seattle, I just don't need to adjust my bridge height all that often. I gots my strings where I like 'em, and there they stay.
And, without the adjusters I'm not constantly fiddling with my bass. |
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lol
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He is not MY mentor now or in the future, ever. Just a guy that found time to write a book. It's best that you and others know this difference. So on a bass 6 feet tall, 1/4=2/8 is better than 3/8 to vibrate? So 1/8" difference is better on a 6ft tall bass over 2 feet wide and deep as 3 cellos. 1/8th inch? Maybe I can sell you a bridge if you believe that! The Brooklyn Bridge maybe? Interested? I'll let you pay it off monthly..:D |
[quote=Ken Smith;21910
Maybe I can sell you a bridge if you believe that! The Brooklyn Bridge maybe? Interested? I'll let you pay it off monthly..:D[/QUOTE] Ruben , don't listen to Ken there is NO way that a bridge of that size would work on any bass that I know of ,not to mention transport costs a custom made case etc etc. |
Did you know the Brooklyn Bridge sits on White Pine caissons that were dug by hand into the mud under the East River, and that several men died of Caisson Disease because of all the time they spent under pressurized conditions? Caisson Disease is commonly called "The Bends". Just thought you folks might enjoy a tidbit of useless but interesting info. How long will those chunks of pine resist rot?
Speaking of chunks of pine, I've had experience with just about every type of bass bridge adjuster. I agree with Traeger in that 1/4 x 20 single-piece are my favorite. However, I am leary of any person who deems himself a "Master Luthier", and I'm leary of untested claims about what vibrates and what doesn't. Besides, would you want the adjuster to vibrate, or would you just want it to pass the vibrations through? Ooh, cue the Theramin... |
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Hi Arnold so you prefer ¼”x20 Aluminum Adjusters…? Can you tell us why they work best for you? My first idea would be, “that the most efficient way to transfer vibrations from the top of the bridge to the bridge foots is not actually use the same material (Maple)” and that won’t change that much the sound of the bass… but that’s not it… I wonder why? |
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Think he was talking about Chuck...... Peace and love... |
Does anyone know when this study was conducted? It stated that most folks from the U.S. had adjusters and most folks from Europe didn't. I wonder if this still holds true today.
At any rate, an interesting thread. I guess what fascinates me is how most people seem to have a strong opinion about adjusters. Its like the carrot cake of the bass world. You love it or you hate it. |
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Mike |
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Wayne, read my last post over. Concentrate on the context. And don't worry, urine is sterile, won't hurt you a bit...;) |
No disrespect Wayne, but if I were to have a real objection to adjusters (which I don't...) it would be in line with what I think you're saying.
It seems to me like any concern for tone aside, adjusters are used more often as a crutch to skirt the issue of less than optimal setup, and to some extent technique, rather than seasonal climate change. If the instrument is properly set up, then low "action" should be possible without buzzes, and higher strings still an option for the player who prefers it. The player shouldn't have to use the adjusters to constantly ride a line between fingerboard noise and uncomfortable/difficult playing; he should be able to use them to suit the string height to his technical ability and playing style. |
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This is a little aside the original topic, but considering the topic, heheh... I'm curious - for the players who do experience a lot of seasonal change and use an adjustable bridge to compensate, how much overall height adjustment would you say you're using over the course of the year? Are you using a significant amount of the range of your adjusters? And also, do you change soundposts or just try to keep a "happy medium" fitted year-round? |
May I?
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I have experienced within the same day or week going from one place to another feeling the strings higher or lower due to humidity/temperature changes. A slight turn of each adjuster, maybe evenly and maybe not, gave me the set-up I needed for that job. Next, one day I might be doing a jazz gig. For Trip/Duo/Combo work with bass solos, I need lower action. For Big band or Singer/Show type back-up work, I want the strings higher. For Classical Orchestra, I usually go as high as it is comfortable. If I have a solo or for chamber music, I might go a little lower. All of these situations can happen within a given week or month for a full time professional freelance bassist. I was one of them in NY. My main bass then was an old Italian Flatback, now used in a Finnish Orchestra with a Rogeri label. With some Roundbacks, I see move movement because the Back is not braced and more free to shift. Flatbacks shift too but the braces attempt to hold it stable. In the case of the bass changing between seasons they both move. So, if you want your bass the way you want it day in and day out, use good adjusters and I have several kinds within my basses. Some turn easier and some not so easy. I am more concerned with that than what or how they effect the sound. I need the height I need. I can play louder or softer at a greater degree than any adjuster can affect a Bass's tone in my opinion. Now as far as the Soundpost goes (aka SP), Roundbacks(RB) in 4-season areas experience more variation than Flatbacks(FB). Over time, the SP on a RB needs more attention than that of a FB. If fitted in the summer or spring, either Back type, it might need to be shaved down a mm or so in the winter. If you can while you are having your RB bass restored, put some kind of center brace in there. This will help save your Back over time from splits in case of drastic changes or hard knocks. I demand this with most of my basses whenever possible. They even sound better afterwards and I think the move less afterwards. Somewhat between a FB and a regular RB. So, a RB with a center brace is a bit of a hybrid. Just have the tightness of the Post checked in the early winter or if you suspect its too tight which you might hear in the change of the sound. Read all audible signs as something to look at and take nothing for granted with these BIG Violins! One last thing about adjusters in my reference above to playing various styles from day to day. Imagine your Bass having a fixed Endpin. Some days you sit, some days you stand. Sometimes you stand straight and sometimes you slouch. Some music you want the bass higher and some lower. An adjustable endpin fixes that problem in the same way bridge adjusted do your string height. I have a few fixed endpins but I also carry the adjustable rod with me as well. Flexibility is important. |
forum motto...
I agree with Ken - it is important for the working bassist to remain flexible, yet keep his adjustable rod close at hand.
Hey Wayne - what was the guy's name - I'm sure you know who I mean - that left the violin wood in some public toilet with a sign asking people to (why am I typing this.......) on it... :D |
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