Playing Jazz
 

I have always loved jazz and it has always been my favourite type of music to play. I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people give their thoughts on playing jazz. I started life as a violinist and was taught in the classical tradition. I changed to bass in my twenties. What really inspired me to play was hearing jazz - I loved the freedom that came with it, but, most of all, when I heard a walking bass, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck. I haven't played that much jazz over the last few years and I've decided to try to get into the local scene.
Presently I'm flicking through the real book and working on my time with a metronome.
I love soloing, but sometimes I'm guilty of trying to play too many notes. I'm trying to be more intuitive when I solo and to remember Dizzy's words,
"Leave some holes for the music to get out."
So, who wants to talk about jazz?

realbook
 

i don´t know if this is legal, but:
if you need some more look here
http://www.dearnell.com/musique/Real%20Book%20PDF/

Wow Anselm - that's a lot of books. Tell me about your jazz playing, I heard a rumour that you do a bit.

well, hm, sometimes, now and then

Anselm, my dear friend, sometimes getting information out of you is like trying to get blood out of a stone!
I did a short tour with Gordon Brisker once. Unfortunately, my dad died and I had to leave the tour early. He told me that he liked my swing feel. We played in Auckland (the night my dad died, but I didn't know until the next day). Gordon had really cold hands and my wife tried to warm them for him. I guess that playing with Gordon was the high point of my jazz career. Some of his charts were quite badly written and were very hard to read. We played a ballad at each performance that we (the band) always seemed to muck up - in reality it was because we couldn't read the chart. We got it right at the last concert and Gordon turned and gave us the thumbs up.

great story.
i know you will find a good band again.

I like that Diz quote. Good advice. I was doing a session once long ago, playing my stuff, and the producer came on the phones and said "You're playing some great ****....... now could you please cut about half that **** out!" That stuck in my mind. Self editing.... :cool:

Richard.... I've spent a bunch of time playing mostly jazz...coming up on 40 years now. Yikes. In that time, I've looked at a LOT of real books, fake books, done a boatload of transcribing, wrote originals, and blew through a lot of my folk's $$$ as a "music major". Looking back, two things advanced my playing as a jazz bassist the most.

-The first one was playing jazz at a really young age with my dad, who immersed me in live work as soon as he discerned that I was into it. There's no replacement for the hard knocks school. It just takes time, a lifetime in my case, and it leads to the second thing, which is;

-incessant listening to the Masters. And what a pleasurable way to absorb great information. It's really all I had as a very young kid, before I even picked up a bass as an adolescent. Dad's vinyl, thank god for that! As nice as it it is to have all the real books and media available for clarification, I think that the only way to play jazz is to learn it as an aural tradition. I'm not sure jazz can be taught without the student having some sense of the language, gleaned from listening to a whole bunch of live and/or recorded music. It's hard to teach someone to swing!

For me, that would involve a lot of stuff that isn't bass music..... Dexter Gordon, Billie Holiday, Max Roach, Miles, and so many more.... all have been an immeasurable influence on the way that I play the bass. I'm really thankful that, even though I play jazz bass just about every night, I'm still a student and a fan of greatness.

I hope your studies are going well, bro. Great thread.

Thanks Marcus, that was great advice.
I remember Bobby Shew saying at a clinic, many years ago, that he wore out all his record covers because he used to play brushes on them as he listened to his records.
Bobby did a lot for jazz down under in the early 1980s. I was so inspired by him that I took up the trumpet. Well, in truth, I was inspired by Roy Eldridge (sp!) and Dizzy first but Bobby delivered the knockout punch. In those days we seldom got to talk to top players or see them play close up.
I've just been working on There Is No Greater Love after reading about Ken playing with John Clayton (on another thread). It's a tune I've never really checked out in detail.

Actually, John is a strong advocate of learning material by listening to it. He's a great teacher.

One other thing that can really help in absorbing and internalizing a tune is to learn the head. Lots of bassists don't seem to do that. It may be the best way to get to know it well enough to solo over the changes. Taking it one step further, it's not a bad idea to learn the lyrics of the tune as well.... anything to help give you context for your improvisations.

All true. Very true.

It's raining and bitterly cold. I have something resembling the flu. I can't take time off school because it's too busy.
The good news? I have a week and a half off, starting next Saturday.
My beloved has lined up a few jobs so that I don't get bored - even though I emphatically informed her that I love being bored!
I plan to put the first Monday of this break aside for what I am calling
"Richard's Big Bass Improvement Day' - I thought up the name myself.
I know that Rome wasn't built in a day and that practising flat out for one day is not the answer to anything. Nevertheless, that's what I intend to do. I intend to immerse myself in bass for one day. I'll be like a one man workshop...
"Hi all, and thanks for coming. Let's start off with some questions - yes the guy at the back." Richard kicks proceedings off.
"Hi, my name is Richard. I just want to ask what Richard's Big Bass Improvement Day will cover." asks Richard.
"Good question. I intend to cover everything." Richard replies.
"But... but, that doesn't seem really possible. Not in one day." Richard retorts.
"Well," Richard replies to the man at the back, "firstly I'll be looking at time, tuning, bowing articulation and pizz. Then we'll take pieces from your repertoire and look at how we can improve tone and improvisation skills. We'll also stop, from time to time, to review our progress."
"Okay, sounds good." Richard replies.
"Are there any more questions?" asks Richard.

humm
 

Well, juts on case, let me add something else for you to make sure ALL 24 hours of this day you plan will have something worthwhile to work on.

First a short story and a theory to get there. One of my first private bass teachers ever was (and still is) the great Reggie Workman. If you don't know who he is, google him and YouTube him.

I would watch him play in a club with a Guitar duo at first and later in a Piano Duo at a few different clubs around NYC and notice that once in awhile he would do some kind of fast descending lick up in thumb position using 3 or 4 strings coming across with a lot of notes there. Each note was clear and a good note as well. He was playing his 4/4 (or bigger) Ferdinand Seitz Bass, a big beautiful dark colored old German bass with a sound to match. I have played this bass myself a few times but that was back around 1970 or so.

So, for jazz and for practice what's the best way to build up technique to play like that across the Strings in thumb position? Well, without going out and buying a bunch of books by all the new guys on how to re-invent the wheel, just take a book you already have. Take your Simandl Book I and play the first few pages of the positions, maybe up to IVth BUT at an Octave higher using T as the open string and 1-2-3 in place of 1-2-4.

Try that just as it's written but up an octave and report back to me after your done a few of these jazz gigs and had a chance to solo up in TP with a few upper descending lines. Practice this with Bow and with Pizz. Why with Pizz? Because that's how you will be playing in Jazz. Why with Bow? Because you can hold the notes longer and build up your finger strength in those positions and well as work on your intonation. Bow first, Pizz second. Back and forth.. Have fun, take two Aspirins and call me in the morning..;)

Does your bass get you gigs? :confused:

Thanks Ken, you're like a slightly older big brother.
Yes, I know who Reggie is.
"Rich, why would you be playing the 2nd Ab on the E string?:confused::("
Remember, I'm the guy going for that Ab on the E string from the "Wolf note or not?" thread.
Thanks Ken, but I'm pretty fluent in that first thumb pos. However, I'll take your thoughts and apply them to the thumb pos. starting on D on the G string, as I'd like to make that as stable as the lower thumb pos.
Thanks, Dr Ken.

I'm telling Oren that you're being silly again!

Enjoy!
 

For your listening pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohYzc...layer_embedded

Listening is everything, well almost.
 

I wonder how many solos have been played using notes that fall comfortably under our fingers. I've fallen into this trap numerous times.
I've lately come up with a little practice idea. What I do is, while practising soloing, I listen for each main note in my head first. I figure that, if I hear a note in my head, it's probably the one that I should play. I know we all should be playing what we hear all the time, but sometimes Johnny Technique gets in the way. Obviously the note I hear takes me to a different place than I intended my hand to be. So far doing this is making me feel honest about what I play. It's Sunday morning Dowm here (NZ) and I'm writing this intuitively, without much thought. I bet you guys play what you hear all the time and I'm the only idiot who had to think about this!

Here's a silly little idea I had the other day, and have been working on. I've started making up 'weirdish' note sequences that go from about open D to high harmonic G. I'm making up ones for major keys and have made up two whole tone note runs - I intend to make up three diminished scale runs next. Obviously the two WT runs sound pretty weird - even my wife noticed that (Well, she does live with me!). I'm hoping to somehow incorporate the runs into my music eventually. What I have noticed, though, is that, when I go back to playing my normal improvised stuff, it sounds somehow fresher. I'm looking on this as a sort of intuitive experiment that might kick some new life into my playing.

Well, this idea hasn't been really as exciting as I thought it might be - I think I'll scrap it and spend more time disecting my repertoire.

I know she's a bass guitarist, but here's some advice from a master.
Check out what she says about 'note scales'. When I was young(er) in the 70s and trying to figure out the bass guitar, there weren't many instruction books available Down here (NZ). Fortunately Carol Kaye's were and I learnt heaps from them. She's like the best bass teacher I've had.

And she's a really interesting person!

I've been working on her 'chord scales' - I've put in quite a few hours on them already. I'm doing them on the DB and the EB.
Are you a jazz player Dave?

That's an interesting question, Richard...

Yes, I've played more than my share of jazz gigs, but in the last couple of years I've done a lot more swing-era stuff than I have bebop, post-bop or contemporary jazz. As to whether a jazz snob would consider what I do with my western swing band to be 'jazz', probably not. But since it swings and it's improvisational solos based around a consistent form, I don't think it's unrelated.

See for yourself; here's a link to my wife's last record (the new one won't be available until the middle of January). I'm playing double bass on that one.

Dave,
I just had a quick listen - I love it! I've always been a huge fan of Texas Swing. You're wife has a great voice and I love that fiddle playing.
I'll listen more once Christmas lunch/day is done.
Thanks for sharing that. I'll look forward to checking out the bass playing too. Hey, this is definitely jazz in my opinion!
Great stuff Dave!

I've just watched the Ken Burns jazz series. I haven't watched the last half hour yet, but I watched the first eleven and a half hours in three days. What sticks in my mind is the huge aray of styles - Louis Armstrong, Count Bassie, Bird, , Trane, Miles - all quite different, but getting to the same thing. It was also interesting how most of these guys often struggled to get work many times throughout their careers. I thought it was just a New Zealand thing. Jazz has a small audience Down here (NZ). Thanks to visits by Yankee jazz musicians over the wears we now have some very good players and young people are studying jazz at at least three different universities. Wellington is awash with jazz students.
There's a great story in the series where Andre Segovia supposedly asks Django if he has a transcription of a solo he just played. Django replies,
"No, I just made it up."
The series talks a lot about the risk taking in jazz and the strain it puts players under to live up to expectations - theirs and others. I think improvisation suits a certain type of personality - as does the accuracy required of classical music. I don't think the risk taking really bothers a jazz musician.
Jazz is indeed, as Bobby Shew once said, a noble calling. Well, I don't remember his exact words, but he said something like that.

I've just been browsing through a book aof transcriptions by Todd Coolman. He put the book together in 1985 and I found it in one of my music cupboards a few weeks ago. I looked him up on the internet and see that he's still going strong. He visited New Zealand twice in the early 80s.

I've come up with a new version of "teaching". Particularly in terms of "jazz".
I've taken the concepts of Victor Wooten as "shown" in his little book "The Music Lesson" and kind of custom fit them into a "program" that works wonders for all instrumentalists (even.....singers :eek: )
If you haven't checked it out, please do yourself and/or your "students" a large favor and do that.

Where do we check it out?

Life is a lesson.
 

I'm practising with a really bad band that is playing a set next Sunday at an outdoors concert. It has been quite depressing because these chaps never seem to pick up the can and practise what they need to do to improve, and make the band work better. I've shown the guitarist how to play the chords he didn't know and I've told the sax player that he plays sharp all the time and that, when he is adding little backing bits, it's a good idea to not play just root notes all the time.

In everything there is a lesson. I've been thinking about these guys lately and it has made me think about my shortcomings and what I need to do to improve. In everything there is a lesson. Life is a lesson.

lol..
 

Hey, what do the say about you directly or behind your back? Any idea?.. :eek:

I took my double bass to the last practice. They prefer the electric, I think - they're not a jazz band, I was just using them here because they're a perfect example of not fixing problems in your playing.
I'm fairly intuitive and, when the sax player visited me on the weekend, I knew they'd been talking about me and that somehow they were seeing me as the problem - or, more specifically, my double bass.
I don't want to sound like Mr Know it all, but these guys are not good players. I agreed to play because one of them is a friend. They're all nice people but they obviously don't know how to get their playing together. Consequently, I think they're looking for a scape goat. I've seen this in bands before. The best action one can take is to leave the band. I'll leave as soon as I can, but I don't like letting people down - even when they're not showing much common sense.
Ah well, like I said, the experience has made me examine my own playing.

Any good book store, Library, Amazon......
As far as the rest of your words, I am confused why you would play with what you call "A really bad band".
I guess I'm pretty confused about many of your statements, Richard. How can you sense that they're using you as a "scapecoat" and be worried about "letting them down" at the same time?

hum?..
 

Look who just walked in..:) Long time no see!:cool:

Yes, you're right, I wasn't really making myself clear. I'm ashamed to admit that I was writing from work and I had quite a few distractions.
Really the story wasn't such a good one to start with. It was about trying to help a group of inexperienced players get through a couple of small time gigs. I identified what was going wrong in the band and suggested ways that these problems could be fixed. I think the guys in the band saw me as a bit of a threat and didn't seem keen to fix some obvious gliches in their playing - maybe they didn't want to face up to the problems. It's not always the best solution just to leave. I feel obliged to do the gigs. Anyway, as I said, it's not really much of a story, I was more interested in the lesson it had reminded me of about always looking into how one might improve one's own playing.
Gotta go... still at work. Naughty me!
Sorry for this muddled up little story. I'm so embarrased that I'm going to use a face! :eek:
Please world, forgive this little slip up.

Don't start. ;)

Well, we have a practice tonight. I'll tell them if the intonation and groove are not happening. Remember that these are not evil people, but they are looking elsewhere to place the blame for why the band isn't working. I'll do the gig on Sunday (and maybe the next one), but I'll tell them that I'm not carrying the can if they can't see the real picture and I'm not wasting time turning up to practices where problems aren't addressed.
Call me Mr Hard if you will!

Richard, call me "hard" ;) if you will, but personally I wouldn't involve myself in a situation that appears to be as negative as this seems to be. To me music is an intimate personal exchange of communication....being positive in terms of the music and the personalites involved is, IMO, huge.
Your situation sounds just plain negative to me.
I'd try to find another group of players.

Thanks for your concern Paul.
I've got to admit that the practice went better last night - in a simple way. The intonation was better, as was the groove. Unfortunately it all unravelled a bit on the last few tunes, but the good news is that my hands got really sore. There's something about playing the bass guitar that seems to agravate my hand injuries, whereas the double bass is much kinder on them. So obviously my days of playing the bass guitar are over, and since this band doesn't like my double bass...
I have my ticket out.
Freedom.

SOS......Kenny.
 

That's the good news? :eek:
Please, don't tell us about the bad. :)

EDIT: Kenny, I need some help in here. ;)

Actually life's looking up and the hands feel a little better today.
My mother, and her sister, both suffered from arthritis so it's actually a bit of a scary point with me at the moment but, hey, life's too short...
But back to jazz...
I watched a short video of Carol Kaye. She implied that she didn't like scale players and that the real jazz players picked their notes from the upper partials of the chords. I hope I haven't misquoted her. How do you make note choices when you are soloing?