New orchestral strings from Pirastro & Daddario
 

Hi Ken,

Have you or anyone else on here tried the new Kaplan strings from Daddario or Pirastro's new Flexocor Deluxe set? I'm due a string change & want to weigh up all my options.

Best regards,
Chris

Flex.
 

I have the Flex Deluxe on one of my basses, tried and took them off one bass and tried them on another bass as well. I played one show with them a few days ago and they are ok. They don't knock me out. I prefer the Passione Stark to them as far as on the two basses I have tried both of these sets on.

Haven't yet tried the D'Addario Kaplans. All I know is what I can see and hear on these clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9IdG3m7IK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODFzT...84FAAAAAAAACAA

Any of you folks try these at the most recent ISB convention?

Hey, these sound interesting! I'll look forward to any more info.

Kaplan's and the Deluxe Flex.
 

Ok, I posted above about the Flexocor Deluxe of which I have a set on one of my basses now. These did not have a name yet when I got the sample set so they were on the bass and being tested before I knew what they were to be called. I have to say they have improved in the short time since putting them on. I tried them on the Hart at first and took them right off as they didn't have the sound that I like on that bass. Then, I put them on the Mougenot and they were better but didn't knock me out. Now that they have settled in, they are very nice. They 'are' the Deluxe of the Flexocor sets, close to the 92s I would say in gauge but not sound. They are also similar in gauge to the regular Passione but have much more sound. This is the best new set Pirastro has put out in general since the Evah's. The Passione Starks I think work better for firm playing as the regular set is a bit light.

On the Kaplan's, I just put a set on my Hart, replacing the Passione Starks. I was not sure at first if they worked better for me on that bass but after playing just a few minutes with the strings at pitch, I think these are nice sounding strings. Sort of a mix of sound between Evah's, Passione's and Flexocor 92s. The have more grit than 92s but smoother than the Passione's. The turn less than Evah's and have more sustain in the pizz than the Passione's. The Kaplans are also a lighter gauge string but soft under the fingers like Evah weichs, just not as thick.

The Hart is my main bass. If I don't like the string as soon as I put it on, it comes right off. A bummer for my fingers, hands and arms changing strings again not to mention the time wasted, but it does happen. I have to like the string in minutes. IF, I like the string which is the case with the new Kaplan's, they stay on the bass and I play them until I don't like them or they wear out.

Strings that I like that I have used and tested and continue to buy for various basses I play, buy and sell include Flexocor 92s (regular and stark), Evah's (reg and stark), Belcantos and Passione's (reg and stark). I also mix on occasion a regular set with a stark E. I buy other strings as well for the basses here in complete and mixed sets as needed but they are not what I like to use personally. As I have said many times before, some basses work better with some strings. Also, depending on what I am playing with 'that' bass, I might need something different. If playing an Orchestra gig or a Jazz gig, I might need different sets for the same bass. Sometimes I am either too lazy to make the change or it's not worth it just for a gig or two as putting strings on and off shortens their life. My personal optimum string for a particular bass is one that works for both Jazz pizz and Orchestra bowing. Sometimes, the bass itself only does one thing good and the other only fair at best. This is a different topic but for now, I think the Kaplans will work for what I have coming up which includes Beethoven's 9th next week, New World Sym.(and more) early next month and a Pop's concert with a few pieces to be played with pick-up and amp. Three different orchestras and three different bass sections with one of the other guys in all three sections with me as well. Seven/7 basses for the 9th and 4 basses for the other two concerts. Two of the guys playing the Pop's thing played with me last week in another orchestra concert so as you can see, I need to spend my time practicing throughout the season and not changing strings or adjusting my bass. I like set the bass up with workable versatile strings and play them till they wear out. Then, I put on the same set new again if they worked well of if I think I need to try one of my other favorites, I put them on. If a new sting comes out, I don't always try them on my main bass. It depends on many things which bass I test new strings.

So, a thumbs up for both these new sets but on my Hart, my main bass, the Kaplan's stay on for now. The Flexocor deluxe are staying as well on the Mougenot. They sound great on that bass. I played back to back a few weeks ago in a B'way type show pit and then did an Orchestra rehearsal. It worked out fine. I also played an Orchestra concert about two months ago with the Mougenot when I first put the Deluxe set on and they were a bit bright for my ear but no one seemed to mind.

Brighter and slightly tighter with smooth bowing, Flexocor Deluxe.

Smooth deep/clear tone with a flexible feel, the new Kaplan's.

Thanks for the review Ken.

Do you know what gauge the Kaplans are? I think they offer light,medium & heavy. Do you think they would work for jazz pizz?

Thanks Geoff

I tried these on Kurt Moroki's Schnitzer Ergo bass at ISB. They were pretty dark for jazz and did have some sustain, but not my cup of tea. I prefer Evah Weichs as a hybrid string as it seems they produce more highs with more sustain.

I agree with you on the jazz side but they don't bow as well being a bit spongy and loose under the hairs. Like I said, you have to pick the string for your ear, bass and type of playing. The Kaplan's were developed for Orchestra as far as I can tell. Most Jazz-liked strings don't bow very well. I can play Jazz on my bass with these strings and my bass is dark as well. Dark is deep, no? It's a bass, no? Dark and deep is my goal.

Dark and deep sounds like a desirable trait in a bass until you try and mix that in a rhythm section. I can't tell you how many extra hours I spent in the studio working on the sound of a very dark and deep old Italian bass ( Valentini?) strung with spiros no less, on 12 album tracks. As you've said , Ken, Juzeks can sound good for jazz and pop because of their more mid-range character.

Snap! Couldn't agree more! I've been playing French on them and getting frustrated. My bow is going back to the luthier today to get its German frog back on. The German certainly gets a better sound out of 'spongy' strings.

Ok Eric, I played in Rhythm sections for 20 years in NYC. Also, 15 of those years was on my Old Italian bass with spiros or some other string with growl and I had no problem recording with it or playing live. The problem was finding a pick-up that would work, as the true fundamental of the notes were too thick for all the pickups on the market I had tried. I ended up inlaying the Barcus-Berry T-bar (that goes ON the bridge with a 'paste' of some sort) INSIDE the bridge on the inner curve about half way in its depth and capped it with ebony. I still have that bridge but the bass is in Finland, modified as a 5-string now and on the principal chair.

I think 'how' you record a bass is very important. If the engineer is used to a Juzek-type bass, then that set-up on the board wont work on a 300 year old Italian bass. Bring that Valenitini bass or what ever it is (never heard of that maker) and I will make it work. :eek:

Ken, I know your history, and your bass isn't this bass. I'm telling you I don't care if you were playing that bass, or Ron Carter, or anyone else, and put Van Gelder or anyone else at the controls, they would have a hell of a time getting that thing to sit easily in a jazz or pop mix. ;)

We could only use mics on it as the player refused to use a pickup (to add some needed mids) and as the producer, I couldn't insist because of special circumstances. We really did try everything to tame the darkness and ended up with a decent result. The bass sounded the way it sounded.

Cheers for the comparison Ken, I've just ordered a set of Kaplans. I'll report back soon.

ok... update
 

A few weeks ago I put a set of Jargar Dolce strings on the hart and took off the Kaplans. I had used the Jargar mediums last year but was interested to try the Dolce set out. So, I took off the Kaplan's after about 3 concerts with no complaints on them but I just had to try the Jargars that were in my cabinet calling my name everything I shuffled thru the sets I had in stock.

Yesterday while testing basses side by side (which I do a lot of) we noticed that the Mougenot was so much louder than the Hart was. When they both had Passiones, the difference was much less. So, my assistant here suggested I try switching the Jargars and Flex Deluxe sets between the Hart and the Mougenot. I had been noticing the Deluxe's smoothing out a bit as they sat on the bass with only occasional playing on them so, I thought it was worth the chance. So, yesterday afternoon I switched the two basses around.

The results;
The Mougenot sounds a bit less powerful with the Jargars but much smoother and deeper than it did with the Deluxe's. An improvement because that bass has power to spare.

The Hart now sounds maybe better than it has in a long time if not ever. The strings are not quite as bright as when they were new and the Hart seems to have gotten more powerful than I can remember it ever being. Belcantos are the only other string that puts out as much power on the Hart but the tone is less sweet than the Deluxe set.

So, I will play the Hart now with these Flex-Deluxe's on it and see how long I go before changing to something else.

ok..
 

Took out the Hart out this evening for a rehearsal (Thursday, Orchestra Society or Philadelphia) and I think this is the loudest and deepest this bass has ever sounded. We were playing the Mozart Posthorn which has some smooth bowing, some fast parts and a bit of pizz, just a bit. The principal sitting on my left taps my should and motions his hand downwards, 'not so loud'! I was bowing on the fingerboard so I motioned to play over the fingerboard above the neck heel and he laughed out loud. People looked over and had no idea what he was laughing about. I had to try real hard to play softly for this scaled down sized group we had tonight.

The brightness I mentioned before with these new Flex, Dlx. strings sounded more like clarity but the smooth loud depth was the best I remember having with this bass.

I had a real good and smooth bow as well, my one of my old English Bryant's. The Lipkins is actually louder on this bass but I chose the Bryant for the Mozart.

Does anyone know what the different tensions are for Passione, Deluxe and Kaplan? With all the different gauges it's hard to compare like with like.

I'm very interested in your comment that the Passiones felt a bit "loose," Ken, because that's exactly what I'm feeling right now with them on my bass. But because I'm playing it in after a long restoration I'm not sure whether what I'm feeling is caused by strings or bass (or a bit of both)...

tensions
 

I don't have any numbers for the tensions but as for feel I can comment. Tightest was Deluxe, and the Passiones and Kaplans were close. Maybe the Passiones were looser but thicker feeling. I have a set here of each so I could measure them but the Passione set I have has a stark E. Maybe I have an unopened set of them as well. Tension and thickness are not consistent for comparisons.

Indeed. Because of the internal construction of a string, the thickness and type of outer wrap, and the amount of damping material added, there is not any direct correlation between a string's overall diameter and the tension required for pitch.

If anybody has the means, and would care to take the time and publish the findings, whether by direct observation with a tension scale, or by deduction knowing the weight of the speaking length of a string, to find out what the tension of any given Pirastro string is, I'd be interested, because they are known for not quoting or publishing their tensions beyond the traditional light-medium-heavy generalizations. The only comments I have ever been able to find out in cyberspace regarding the relative tension of Pirastro strings are anecdotal observations like Ken's for the Passiones, and several others in different contexts have put Jazzers about midway between Spiro S42 Weich and S42 Mittel.

Following on from that, does actual tension (as measured on scale in lbs or kg) translate directly to the string feeling tight or loose, or is that feeling more abstract, like the relationship between balance and weight of bows?

I have played several basses with the same strings on them. They all feel different. So, I think the bass has more to do with the tension than the string specs in that regard.

Tailpiece angle, after length, string length, bridge height, nut height, fingerboard camber, neck strength, etc., all have something to do with the tension of your bass. I never go by numbers published on string tension other than maybe one compared to another. Once on a bass, then you can see how it feels. Belcantos on my Marconcini feel different than on my Bollbach Lion or Halle Tarr or any other bass. Same strings, different basses, different tensions!

Ken, what are the different mensures on these basses? Even 1/2 inch difference in mensure will have a noticable effect on the tension, as tension varies not directly, but as the square of the scale length.

And as you say, the setup on everything from the nut to the endpin and everything in between, including camber, can make a string feel different.

41-42" on average but it is not just the length as I can have a 41 tight and a 41 looser. It is all things combined.

Flex. Deluxe..
 

I just put a new set of the new Deluxe's on my Panormo school bass. I had one of the proto-type sets before that I tried on both my Hart and Mougenot basses. I liked them on the Mougenot as soon as they went on but not on the Hart. After a few months, I switched them back over to the Hart and 'then' I liked them on better after some play-in time.

A short time ago I emailed Pirastro to see if there were any design changes between the prototype sets and the current sets now packaged for sale. They said yes, some slight changes. So I ordered a brand new set but when they came in, I didn't have a bass that needed the strings changed so they just sat in stock for a few months.

My Panormo school bass had Original Flatchromes that were over 3 years old and a Flex-Stark E/C which was put on a few months later when the extension was made. They were to my ear, not 100% of what they once were so in looking for a set to put on from the few types I have in stock, I pulled these out and put them on.

My first impression was they were slightly smoother than the 3+ year old OFCs, clear and full sounding. They are not overly thick or muddy sounding which could be a problem on a bass this size if the string promotes more of the low end of the spectrum. They bow easily of course, similar to the OFC's and Flexocors which is quite typical for Pirastro strings. In a day, week or month from now, I expect them to break in and settle little by little. Right now, they are quite lively and on a big bass that has a super sweet high register, if you can reach up there! ;)

ok, listen up..
 

That Flex proto set I was on the fence about? On and off the Hart, then Mougenot and then back on the Hart? Remember my comments here about that?

Well then, we did something..

Unrelated (partially) to strings, I sent the Hart in to Arnold for a 5-year check-up on the restoration break-in. A lot of new wood in there. The Back has a new center and lower brace, the upper-mid left out and only studded on the angle-break. New half-edging all around and 3 different breast patches. One at each end of the bar and one under the post. so.. I asked Arnold to take off the Top and examine the repair wood and see if anything is making the bass overly stiff. The Flex Deluxe's were smooth one one bass and stiff on the Hart so after some nearly out-patient surgery (some of the repair wood trimmed), the Top back on and re-strung with the same strings, a 4th time going on a bass, 3rd time on the Hart, the bass is like half new again. Not new in sound, just improved as if it's a different bass. Twice the power on the bottom as before and the upper notes, as smooth as they were before the first restoration. These strings NOW sound and feel great on this bass as opposed to before.

I attribute this to two possible things. The bass is improved and the strings are broken in combined but, they were broken in the 2nd time they went on and the bass sounded like itself, so it's beyond the break-in theory.

If a bass is tight within itself, a tight string will not help it. It will only amplify that situation. Like putting dark strings on a dark bass. In many cases between a bass and its chosen string, opposites attract.

The Hart is a dark smooth bass. Just not overly powerful, before! Now, it's a cannon and the Flex Deluxe set seems perfectly at home with it. I will play these strings till they 'go'. Then I will put a new set of them on that I already tried on the Panormo. I took them off after a brief trial and will have them available for the Hart when needed. These strings can make your day! :cool:

I'm happy to report that the re-formulated Pirastro Passiones are a winner. When I recently strung up my #30 bass, I tried several different sets of strings; old and new BelCantos, Flexacore Originals and Deluxe, then the Passiones. These strings have the same ease of bowing as the BelCantos, but have a wider dynamic range and a bit less tension. I sometimes buck the trend at competitions, as it has become the norm to string up with BelCantos. Yesterday I learned that my #30 bass had won a Silver medal for Tone at the Violin Society of America maker's competition (the highest tone award) with the Passiones, so I will continue to buck when warranted. Thanks to my friend and colleague, Jay VandeKopple, for suggesting these strings for this bass.:)

Congratulations! (Although with your skill and accomplishments, it is not a huge surprise...)

Good to hear about the new Passiones. I may follow your lead.

Just about to pull the Kaplans off my bass; they've been on a couple days, but aren't great on that instrument.

The Belcantos have been a great all-round string, but I find the E a bit muddy and the G at bit "ducky" sounding (on my bass), so am interested in other options. So, thanks for the tip on the new Passiones.

Again, congratulations!

Congratulations!

great..
 

I played that bass just before it went off to the competition. That Silver medal is LONG overdue Arnold. Thumbs UP!!

I heard that the Storioni copy you made for me (bass #24) was one decision from a Gold but as they say, 'a miss is as good as a mile'. Tone is where it's at! Workmanship judging is very subjective. I have never played a great sounding bass that I couldn't find something wrong with workmanship-wise.

Actually, a gold medal is reserved for an instrument that wins a silver in both the tone and workmanship categories. Silver is the highest honor in either tone or workmanship. Also, I want to congratulate my colleague Seth Kimmel, whose bass also took a silver in tone, and Sergio Scaramelli, whose bass was honored with a certificate for workmanship.

I wonder how my Hart would be judged if it was new and entered in one of these shows. We don't know how it sounded new but the workmanship is fairly evident.