Periods and Styles of French Basses
 

I think one of the problems with the French Basses is that we are used to seeing 3 styles mainly. The most famous model is the large 7/8 Cello type with the Button in the back. Then comes the Gamba models from the same period often with strong corners and wide Bouts. These two models mentioned are both mainly from the mid to latter 19th century. Then we have the French Pear model made famous by Quenoil and copied by others thru the mid 20th century and even currently.

What we don't see too many of are French Basses pre-1850 on back into the 18th century or even before if they even exist before 1700. Makers like Pillement (Pere) and LeJeune are the only two I can recall seeing that can be ID'd as France pre-1800 and not but a decade or so before. There were actually 4 makers named LeJeune and the one Bass I have seen is listed at two different shops is attributed differently between them. The shop in Germany has it as Francois L. c.1785 and the one in England (same exact bass) has it listed as Jean Charles L. c.1790. Only the latter is possible for that date having worked 1776-1823 (Henley) as Francios dates from 1740-1780 (Henley).

I am curious now to search for French Basses made pre-1850 that do not follow the typical post-Vuilluame, Bernadel, Gand stylings including any of the Jacquet's and Claudot's etc..

Has anyone seen a Bass by the early Lupo's or maybe Francois Fent from the 18th century?

Please join in and tell us about some old old French Basses you might have seen or heard about. Posting pics would be great as well. Remember now, we are not looking for the typical Mirecourt type French Bass here but rather the older and different ones possible dating before 1800.

sneak preview..
 

Here's a sneak preview of a beautiful Vuillaume School Bass..

Click here.

Against my better judgment business-wise, I am posting this link for an early viewing. The Bass should be kept under wraps for a year or two until it is fully restored but for Historical purposes I thought it was more important to share.;)


The Bass has since been fully restored since this initial posting. The work and extension was done by Jeff Bollbach.

Outstanding!


Outstanding!


What a great bass find.

Thanks for posting these. Gives a person something to be inspired by...

So very lovely...

My main bass was made by Francois Lejeune. There is a very splotchy label inside that looks like the date says 176_. I got it about 13 years ago from Mike Leiter. It has definitely been cut down from its original size around the top shoulders, possibly when it was damaged- the scroll has been grafted at least twice (!) and the neck has been broken at least two or three times (once by an airline since I have owned it :eek:). Not sure if the scroll is original, but I'm told it is from the same time period. Neck probably isn't. It's a beautiful scroll, carved through the back with additional carving on the sides and front. The two shoulder ribs and one 'C' rib have been replaced but I have no idea when. I could post some older photos, but the bass is now quite different. I had an extension put on, but more importantly it is now undergoing a fairly major restoration to the top (cleats from previous repairs/restoration were causing new cracks and the arch was 'collapsing' into more of a 'B' shape around the bridge).

It won't be done for a few more months, probably. Shall I wait until then to post photos, or would you like to see what it looked like about 5 years ago?

5 yrs ago?
 

Sure. Before and After pics are great to have and compare from.

As it turns out, I have pictures of my Lejeunne bass with the extension. One photo here- of the back of the scroll- predates the extension. On my computer the resolution isn't great; hopefully it won't be too bad here (unless they end up too small to be of use...)

nice..
 

Is that the KC extension? Love the back of that scroll just as it is. Real evidence of the old French Viol school. And pics of the back or ribs we could see?

Yes, that's the KC extension. I chose it for the lack of drilling the scroll, and no torque to the scroll. I'm really happy with it, although it is kind of heavy.

I'll dig around for photos of the back and ribs. In the meantime, here is before and after shots of the arching of the top. Not from the same angle, but you can still see the change.

Not that I am aware of. Read the story about the notes of George Gemunder on Vuillaume. You will get a bit of insight into Paris building there. I think the differences might better be noticed inside as far as Mirecourt factory/shop work and individual hand work, maybe. Paris to Mirecourt is not that far. Many makers trained in Mirecourt regardless of where they settled. The last time I saw a bass appraised from a big shop as 'Paris', I told the owner in 3 seconds flat the bass was German and made later in build.

Paris was an expensive place to work in as compared to Mirecourt. If a maker could afford to work in that city, he would probably be one of the recognised makers, label or not. Most though did use a label on everything as a matter of business if not just pride alone.

Show me the bass here on line or in an email if you like. Talking over and over thru various threads fishing for information is pointless unless you show to pictures to go with the words.

Home at last!
 

So, at long last I’ve got my beloved old Lejeunne bass back after extensive repair/restoration work to the top by Tom Barrett. Maybe this belongs in the luthier or restoration sections, but since it’s the same bass as above it seems to make sense to post it here.

In a big nutshell, he re-arched the top in a cast, repaired a large number of cracks with patches (removing all the previous cleats and other cross-grain bits and pieces), removed and patched old woodworm damage which had previously been filled with epoxy :eek:, replaced chest and sound post patches, and put in various other large and small patches to strengthen it. Almost all of the new wood is with the grain, and he was careful to remove as little original wood as possible (as you would expect). I’m probably forgetting some of it, but if anyone wants to know more specifically they’re probably best off getting it properly, and accurately, from Tom himself. He can be contacted via his website: http://www.doublebassireland.com

I haven’t had a chance to play it much yet, but already it feels like the sound has improved from before, although it does also feel like it needs to be played in. I’m expecting it to take a while to settle, and thank you, Ken, for helping me to get my head around that.

Here’s before and after photos of the inside. They kind of speak for themselves…

Here's a link to a better sequence of photos of the top restoration. Maybe it'd be better in the luthier section... ?

Anyway, the bass continues to improve. Ten months and counting. Have tried at least four types of strings and I think Bel Cantos might be where I stay for a while.

http://www.doublebassireland.com/leJ...storation.html

wow..
 

That's a lot of work. Is the sound now up to where it was before yet or better than before? Most of the times when I get old basses restored it takes time for the repairs the break in. 2-5 years on average and then it mellows out more from there over time as the new repair wood ages. Often, with that much work, the Top might come off in a year or two (maybe more) to tweak the work inside if to heavy or if problems arise with the new and old meshing together. This is all normal.

Yes, a LOT of work! The sound is even better than before- warmer in ways I like. There isn't as much projection/power as before though, but that has been improving. Pirastro Passione strings sounded really amazing on it, but had no guts at all. Bel Cantos seems to be a good mix of sound and projection.

You mentioned the 2-5 years in an earlier post a while ago, and that has kept me sane (for which I thank you!!). Need to just keep playing it lots to get the new wood used to being a bass.

2.5 years post restoration and the bass is now projecting nicely. Spent a year with olive g and d strings, which sounded amazing but don't really stay in tune reliably. Trying Passione again but i'm not convinced. Do you think it's possible that an old bass like that can 'dislike' steel strings?

Old basses like old people like what they like. Hard to say without experimenting.