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-   -   Don't do this! (But then again, you probably wouldn't.. also posted on TB) (http://www.smithbassforums.com//showthread.php?t=1454)

Eric Swanson 03-12-2010 06:30 AM

Don't do this! (But then again, you probably wouldn't.. also posted on TB)
 
This is embarrassing, but I am offering it here so that I might save some other soul from a similarly lame move.

Yesterday I rented a bass because I found myself needing an instrument, short-term. The bass' bag wouldn't accomodate my bow case. I put the case on top of my car, and loaded up.

I got to my destination, unpacked, and noticed the missing bow case. Panic, self-admonishments, and dread ensued. I retraced my route.

I found the smashed bowcase and my Louis Morizot french bow lying in the street. Let's just say that driving over a bow repeatedly is not a great way to care for it.

The frog is crushed, the inlays gone, the stick dented all over from the asphalt, the grip a tangle of silver wire. Miraculously, the stick didn't break. It just looks as if a puppy chewed on it for a couple of hours.

The bow was a gift from a former teacher. It was one of my most cherished sacred objects.

The only good part; it was insured through my homeowner's policy, listed as a line item (Amica, hooray for Amica!). I put in a claim this morning; sure enough accidental damage is covered. We did this when we took out the policy; I got the bow professionally appraised, submitted the appraisal form, and had it written into the policy as an "additionally insured item."

The bow can't be replaced, really, in terms of its value to me. Hopefully, it can be repaired. If it can't, at least I will have the resources to try to replace it.

Thanks solely to my wife's wisdom; at least it was insured. Wisdom surrounds me in my family, even if I don't share in it. My five-year old summed it up best, "Daddy, maybe you shouldn't put anything on top of your car again."

Lessons:
- don't put anything on top of my vehicle (like my bowcase)
- make sure musical stuff is fully insured
- slow down, stay in the present moment, more, and try not to rush, when loading up

Humbly submitted,
Eric

Ken Smith 03-12-2010 08:18 AM

on top of a car?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson (Post 18348)
This is embarrassing, but I am offering it here so that I might save some other soul from a similarly lame move.

Yesterday I rented a bass because I found myself needing an instrument, short-term. The bass' bag wouldn't accomodate my bow case. I put the case on top of my car, and loaded up.

I got to my destination, unpacked, and noticed the missing bow case. Panic, self-admonishments, and dread ensued. I retraced my route.

I found the smashed bowcase and my Louis Morizot french bow lying in the street. Let's just say that driving over a bow repeatedly is not a great way to care for it.

The frog is crushed, the inlays gone, the stick dented all over from the asphalt, the grip a tangle of silver wire. Miraculously, the stick didn't break. It just looks as if a puppy chewed on it for a couple of hours.

The bow was a gift from a former teacher. It was one of my most cherished sacred objects.

The only good part; it was insured through my homeowner's policy, listed as a line item (Amica, hooray for Amica!). I put in a claim this morning; sure enough accidental damage is covered. We did this when we took out the policy; I got the bow professionally appraised, submitted the appraisal form, and had it written into the policy as an "additionally insured item."

The bow can't be replaced, really, in terms of its value to me. Hopefully, it can be repaired. If it can't, at least I will have the resources to try to replace it.

Thanks solely to my wife's wisdom; at least it was insured. Wisdom surrounds me in m family, even if I don't share in it. My five-year old summed it up best, "Daddy, maybe you shouldn't put anything on top of your car again."

Lessons:
- don't put anything on top of my vehicle (like my bowcase)
- make sure musical stuff is fully insured
- slow down, stay in the present moment, more, and try not to rush, when loading up

Humbly submitted,
Eric

Years ago, c.1975 I was doing a gig in Pittsburgh and we all 3 (the Bobby Cole Trio) drove from NY in one car with the Bass (my old Italian), amp of sorts (forget which one) and the drums.. The car, a station wagon I think and it was packed!

While at the gig (a week or two maybe?) I met a bass player selling an old bass. It was a nice German bass but needed some repairs. I got an advance from the leader and bought it. Then in the hotel room I grabbed a kitchen knife and with a bit of warm water slowly removed the top. At the end of the gig the leader decided to fly back and the drummer and I drove. I had to put the bass on the roof of the car. The top loose and all packed in a canvas bag. Guess what? It rained the whole drive back, about 6 hours. :eek:

I restored the bass over the years but sold it just before completing it so all that was done was fine. Anyway, I DID actually put an old German bass on the roof of a car. Not something I would ever suggest doing but I had no choice at the time.

Dave Whitla 07-12-2010 04:04 PM

Were you able to get the bow restored? I could so easily have done what you did. I'm always putting coffees on the top of the car and have driven off a few times. A friend recently did it with his iPhone, but it has a grippy cover and miraculously didn't fall off the car. None of these compare to a Morizot, of course.
I hope it was able to be saved. I have one of my teacher's bows and I would be gutted if anything happened to it.

Eric Swanson 07-13-2010 10:48 AM

Yes, "gutted" expresses my feelings pretty well, especially right when it happened. Thanks for your empathy.

I got a referral to Jerry Pasewicz, as one of the few people who would do well with the restoration. I spoke with him a couple of times; he certainly knows his business. Moreover, his firm has been a joy with which to work:

http://www.trianglestrings.com/store...content&page=4

They are busy, so it will be a few months until my bow moves up the line for restoration.

He offered rebuilding the frog (which was crushed), to match a Morizot pattern or making a new one and saving the old pieces for a future restoration. We discussed pros and cons for each option. I opted for the new frog.

He says that it will play as well as new, because the stick didn't break. I look forward to seeing it again. He also says that the stick damage, when steamed, filled, and finished, will be virtually undetectable.

The bow will come back to me, with the new frog, haired, and recambered, before he does filling/refinishing on the stick. If the curve/action is right, he will then finish up the cosmetic part of the work.

Bless him, his talent, and his skills. I'll report on the results.

Ken Smith 07-13-2010 11:45 AM

new frog?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson (Post 19646)
Yes, "gutted" expresses my feelings pretty well, especially right when it happened. Thanks for your empathy.

I got a referral to Jerry Pasewicz, as one of the few people who would do well with the restoration. I spoke with him a couple of times; he certainly knows his business. Moreover, his firm has been a joy with which to work:

http://www.trianglestrings.com/store...content&page=4

They are busy, so it will be a few months until my bow moves up the line for restoration.

He offered rebuilding the frog (which was crushed), to match a Morizot pattern or making a new one and saving the old pieces for a future restoration. We discussed pros and cons for each option. I opted for the new frog.

He says that it will play as well as new, because the stick didn't break. I look forward to seeing it again. He also says that the stick damage, when steamed, filled, and finished, will be virtually undetectable.

The bow will come back to me, with the new frog, haired, and recambered, before he does filling/refinishing on the stick. If the curve/action is right, he will then finish up the cosmetic part of the work.

Bless him, his talent, and his skills. I'll report on the results.

The bow will hold it's value MUCH better with a RESTORED Original Frog. On vintage Bows with Replaced Frogs you can expect about a 40% devaluation for not having it original. For repaired/restored, maybe 10-20% depending..

If the Stick was broken and it's just getting pieced together then the value is not an issue. Just play it.

Eric Swanson 07-13-2010 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith (Post 19647)
The bow will hold it's value MUCH better with a RESTORED Original Frog. On vintage Bows with Replaced Frogs you can expect about a 40% devaluation for not having it original. For repaired/restored, maybe 10-20% depending..

If the Stick was broken and it's just getting pieced together then the value is not an issue. Just play it.

Interesting point. I went back and forth with Mr. Pasewicz, over a few days, on that very issue. I was concerned about both being a good steward for the bow and with resale. I was also concerned with his opinion as a craftsman, as to which would yield a more "sound" bow.

He said, that in this case, the devaluation would be a "wash." The original frog had nickel mounts. The new frog (with matching nut) would have silver mounts, hence, higher value. He also said that a modern frog and nut would yield a more structurally sound bow, in his opinion.

Thus, in either case, he estimated a drop in value of about 15%; either with the restored frog and nut (with nickel) or the new frog and nut (with silver)

He also, with some humility, said that while the repaired frog would look almost as good as new, in a few years, there may be even better adhesives/technology for such restoration efforts. He talked about the significant advances that have happened in the world of epoxies, within the last few years.

He was willing and able to complete either option. The new frog will actually cost more than a rebuilt one. It seemed as if it would yield a more stable bow, however, of similar (but, as you say, reduced) value.

I am certainly no expert on these things. I am only sharing the little information/perspective I have on this particular case.

Ken Smith 07-13-2010 05:19 PM

well...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson (Post 19648)
Interesting point. I went back and forth with Mr. Pasewicz, over a few days, on that very issue. I was concerned about both being a good steward for the bow and with resale. I was also concerned with his opinion as a craftsman, as to which would yield a more "sound" bow.

He said, that in this case, the devaluation would be a "wash." The original frog had nickel mounts. The new frog (with matching nut) would have silver mounts, hence, higher value. He also said that a modern frog and nut would yield a more structurally sound bow, in his opinion.

Thus, in either case, he estimated a drop in value of about 15%; either with the restored frog and nut (with nickel) or the new frog and nut (with silver)

He also, with some humility, said that while the repaired frog would look almost as good as new, in a few years, there may be even better adhesives/technology for such restoration efforts. He talked about the significant advances that have happened in the world of epoxies, within the last few years.

He was willing and able to complete either option. The new frog will actually cost more than a rebuilt one. It seemed as if it would yield a more stable bow, however, of similar (but, as you say, reduced) value.

I am certainly no expert on these things. I am only sharing the little information/perspective I have on this particular case.

Personally, I would go with the restored way BUT, I haven't seen the damage so I'm shooting in the dark here.

Eric Swanson 07-14-2010 07:41 AM

Turns out I misunderstood (not my first time, either :o); the structural integrity will be the same, whether its a new frog or a restored one. I was talking with Jerry Pasewicz yesterday about it, as we were discussing the job.

In light of that, I am also inclined to go with a restored frog, just to keep as much original material in place as possible. My concern is that if the restoration doesn't happen now, the original frog may never be fixed. So, as the bow's current steward, I feel somewhat obligated to have it mended, rather than as a collection of broken parts.

Interestingly, Mr. Pasewicz mentioned that many players routinely have him make reproduction frogs, for daily use, so that they may keep their original frogs safe and out of harm's way. Perhaps, after I have the original restored, I will also go with the duplicate frog approach.

Ken Smith 07-14-2010 09:05 AM

humm?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson (Post 19656)
Turns out I misunderstood (not my first time, either :o); the structural integrity will be the same, whether its a new frog or a restored one. I was talking with Jerry Pasewicz yesterday about it, as we were discussing the job.

In light of that, I am also inclined to go with a restored frog, just to keep as much original material in place as possible. My concern is that if the restoration doesn't happen now, the original frog may never be fixed. So, as the bow's current steward, I feel somewhat obligated to have it mended, rather than as a collection of broken parts.

Interestingly, Mr. Pasewicz mentioned that many players routinely have him make reproduction frogs, for daily use, so that they may keep their original frogs safe and out of harm's way. Perhaps, after I have the original restored, I will also go with the duplicate frog approach.

Like I said, I haven't seen the damage so I can't comment on the usage part. If he mentioned it can be restored for less than making a new Frog then gee, it's a no brainier. Frogs don't usually get banged around and the Glues out there are stronger than the wood itself so it's a no brainier in my book.

Thomas Erickson 07-23-2010 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson (Post 19656)
many players routinely have him make reproduction frogs, for daily use, so that they may keep their original frogs safe and out of harm's way. Perhaps, after I have the original restored, I will also go with the duplicate frog approach.

I find this interesting - granted, I know little about fine bows and the preservation/restoration thereof, but I have to wonder about the value of a fine old bow (or instrument) if it isn't being used to create music. To me, that's a very stark line. Personally, I would not buy an instrument (or bow) that i didn't intend to use, if even minimally, because to me it seems like turning instruments into "commodities" is a disservice to our community in the long run.

Eric Swanson 07-26-2010 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson (Post 19745)
I find this interesting - granted, I know little about fine bows and the preservation/restoration thereof, but I have to wonder about the value of a fine old bow (or instrument) if it isn't being used to create music. To me, that's a very stark line. Personally, I would not buy an instrument (or bow) that i didn't intend to use, if even minimally, because to me it seems like turning instruments into "commodities" is a disservice to our community in the long run.

I probably expressed the idea badly. It happens with me sometimes.

What Mr. Pasewicz said was that some players have a reproduction frog made, and fitted to their bows, for daily use. This occurs most often with expensive bows that are out in the world, being played, in harm's way.

Thomas Erickson 07-26-2010 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne holmes (Post 19764)
Once again, Thomas, you make a lot of sense. Is preserving the original frog and using its twin---would that fall into the kludge zone of things?

:D

Nah, not really - It just seems to me like making music with a good old instrument or bow, and repairing/maintaining it through its life, is more in line with "preserving" it, as opposed to taking pieces off and leaving them in a drawer someplace so they don't get damaged. I mean, if we're too scared of hurting these things to take them out and play them, then why are they really so valuable? And I don't mean to be critical or anything, of course - I can't fault someone for being concerned for the safety of a nice instrument or bow! ;)

Eric Swanson 07-27-2010 07:12 AM

Thank goodness we can all make our own choices.

For me, I will continue to choose to wear a seat belt, to wear steel-toed shoes at work, and to strap my young daughter into her car seat.

Once it is restored, I will try to keep my bow from further damage, in any way I can. I plan to continue to use it, daily. I am very fortunate to own such a bow; my recent experience nearly destroying it, through my own thoughtlessness, has simply provided a clear wake-up call. It may be that nobody besides me needs such a warning...

My hope, in starting this thread, was to underscore the frailty of such precious things (including, apparently, my short-term memory :)). It is my wish that the discussion may help someone else from making such a grotesque error.

Thomas Erickson 07-27-2010 07:38 AM

Last I checked, to err is only human... and instruments can almost always be repaired. I often find more artistry in the repair than the original work itself...

I hope to some day own a truly great instrument, and that when I do I'll have the confidence to take it out and use for the purpose it was made for. And further, that if I happen to break it, I won't feel too bad about it. ;)

Eric Rene Roy 07-27-2010 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson (Post 19772)
...It just seems to me like making music with a good old instrument or bow, and repairing/maintaining it through its life, is more in line with "preserving" it, as opposed to taking pieces off and leaving them in a drawer someplace so they don't get damaged. I mean, if we're too scared of hurting these things to take them out and play them, then why are they really so valuable? And I don't mean to be critical or anything, of course - I can't fault someone for being concerned for the safety of a nice instrument or bow! ;)

Sometimes the original materials are banned now...and taking them out of the country is risky if you don't have the proper paperwork. I know very good dealers who have had tortoise shell or ivory frogs confiscated by customs...even having what they thought to be the needed papers!

David Powell 08-05-2010 02:52 PM

Years ago I did the same thing with a nearly brand new Gossen Luna Pro light meter. That was in the ancient times when measuring light was a prerequisite for getting a photo;- on a curious material called gelatin-silver "film". Of course there were autos back then, but these had distributors, points, etc.; - but I digress. I took a light reading for a late evening shot at my parents' house, set the meter on top of my station wagon and then took the shot. In the meantime, it got too dark to see it easily and then I loaded up to drive over 200 miles, my brother following me in his car about 50 yards behind for the first several miles. Once we hit highway speed it flew off my car and bounced off his windshield. He flashed his lights and we stopped. He didn't know what it was but it was apparent that it had come off of my car and then I thought back and figured it out. 2 weeks later I came back to the same spot where we had stopped and searched for it. Miraculously the Luna Pro survived the incident, and it was many years before it finally stopped working.

These things always happen when we break a routine that usually keeps us out of trouble. In this case it was a rare fleeting sunset, for Eric, a bassbag with no bow case pocket. It can happen to anyone for the odd reason. I'm glad to hear that the stick was intact, Eric. It will play again.

Ken, one of my favorite bass-on-the-roof-of-the-car stories is from Danny Thompson. He has an old French bass that he had no idea what it was when he bought it (5) because it was covered with some cheap black paint. He routinely drove it to gigs strapped to the roof of some tiny English car that was the only vehicle between all of his band at the time. One evening they chanced into a rather persistent deluge on the way home and the paint started coming off revealing the 200+ year old varnish;- on a Gand. Apparently is survived intact and he still plays it to this day.

Ken Smith 08-05-2010 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Powell (Post 19929)
Ken, one of my favorite bass-on-the-roof-of-the-car stories is from Danny Thompson. He has an old French bass that he had no idea what it was when he bought it (5) because it was covered with some cheap black paint. He routinely drove it to gigs strapped to the roof of some tiny English car that was the only vehicle between all of his band at the time. One evening they chanced into a rather persistent deluge on the way home and the paint started coming off revealing the 200+ year old varnish;- on a Gand. Apparently is survived intact and he still plays it to this day.

A Gand? Would love to see that. Most basses called or attributed to Gand are not. Real basses by Gand are rare.

Eric Swanson 08-06-2010 10:03 AM

You are exactly right, David. One little routine change can make things go awry, very easily.

Those Gossen meters were rugged. I used one when I took pictures with my old pre-Dresden-bombing Exacta...(I still have the camera, with a Zeiss Jena lens, I am told that it was one of the first production SLR's; a great camera. The meter is still working, too.).

Eric Swanson 04-23-2011 08:29 AM

Morizot bass bow, back from the dead
 
6 Attachment(s)
Got this back from Jerry Pasewicz, yesterday.

Miraculous work, his.

I am a professional woodworker, with a relentless eye for detail. His work is so good, it seems magical. When someone's knowledge, talent, and technique are that strong, the results look effortless.

I'll let the photos tell the story. Before and after...

Arnold Schnitzer 04-23-2011 08:53 AM

Eric, is that a new frog? If not, wow!


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