Breaking in a bass
 

I think most bassists agree that one reason basses improve with age is the effect of vibration in 'opening up' the bass. Exactly how this occurs I don't know, but I'm guessing there are differing opinions.

Anyway, in an attempt to speed up the process, I've thought of leaving the stereo on while I'm away with a speaker blasting away at my bass.:D

Thoughts?

Do you think a bass would prefer:

Pictures at an Exhibition/Organ transcription
Vic Wooten
Paul Chambers arco solos
James Earl Jones narrating a book

I tried this for a bit, but my dog isn't crazy about Russian music, so that almost eliminates number one.
My bass may try to pick up some Vic Wooten licks. This would be difficult for a DB to pull off, but maybe worth a try?
It would have to have better intonation than Mr PC, but he's surely a goal to shoot for.
Maybe a little James Earl Jones would be good for helping the solos. Me and the bass may actually have something worth saying and a willing audience. :D

OK,
So what are your thoughts? Is this a stupid idea and if not, any material for helping the bass along on it's road to maturity?

p.s. Bob, I'd bring the bass to you for the de-dampening treatment, but money is really tight right now. Maybe it's in my basses future.

Thought!
 

Why do Basses sound better after it gets some cracks and then gets fixed? Is that part of aging? Is that part of mellowing out or am I just cracking up mentioning this? :p (why pink? yuck..)

Experience and time combined loosens up a Bass. My 200 or so year old Italian Bass sounds mellower than my 88 year old Italian Bass and the older one has way more cracks. :(

I had two English Basses side by side both around 200 years old and the one with more cracks sounded better. Then I bought another one almost 200 years old with even more cracks and it sounds even better than the other two. :D

Maybe it is all it's cracked up to be, aye?:rolleyes:

Ken, I respect your advice.
Do you recommend I put the bass outside for the rest of the winter?

breaking in a bass
 

I have heard people suggest some kind of transducer that vibrates the bass; but I don't know specifically what device, where to get it and how to use it. Anyone else, know about these? One bassist suggested playing tritone double stops with a bow to generate a lot of vibration. My bass is new so I bow some long open Es and As as well as the tritone double stops to open it up when I start practicing.

Jim

If you believe that sound vibrations will improve your bass, then just plug into your amp, turn it up till it feeds back and leave it on all day. :eek:

I do this:

Tune your E string down to D. Then hold your finger down on A on the G string. You end up with 4ths, or 5ths (if you are on your head). Then play a series of double stops on the strings D & A, A & D, D & A, etc... if you want to get tricky turn your bow underhanded and play the lowest and highest string at the same time.

You will feel your bass start to open up. Give it a whirl.

Brian

Give it a whirl?
 

Do you do this for 20 years without stopping? How do you expect to excel the aging process with all these gimmicks?

Remember the song? "Breaking-in Is Hard To Do" ..;)

My method? I just buy old Basses and get them fixed up, period. My 3/4 Shen is 10 years old and my 7/8ths is about 6. The Lionhead from Jeff is about 3 1/2 etc.. They all sound their age. My Martini is 88 and Gilkes is 193 and they both sound their age as well despite their young looks.

Being smart and having experience is two different things. Doing the right thing to vibrate your Bass is fine if you can live long enough to witness the change.

If you can afford a House or Car and/or hobbies and vices, then adjust your priorities and try to get an older investment grade Bass. I don't see it happening any other way.

I have one Ken- and it sounds great. I am not telling him that a "new" bass will sound anything but "new".

I believe that each bass, where it is in its own progression has a maximum volume and tone production capability. What I am suggesting is how to get the most out of that instrument at that particular time in its progression. However, if you don't believe me- try it. Try it on one of your 200 year old English Basses. Do it for one week solid, about 5-10 minutes a day. Make it part of your practice routine, as long tones.

Your bow arm will improve, and your tone production on that instrument will improve. I also think that the amount of vibrations you are producing will positively affect the sound- in the long run. There is no instant fix.

I have both, as well as you. Some of us are younger, Ken. We may see the difference in our lifetimes. ;) Also, some of us keep a bass for 30 or 40 years without buying and selling. (or at least plan to)

As I said, give it a whirl. :rolleyes:

Brian

A variation I use of this warm-up is different. I introduce a very strong low pitched dissonance by bowing the major 7th interval (B on the B sring and Bb on the E) It all starts shuddering at about 2 Hz. I suppose the same thing can be done with the E and Eb on a 4 string. If the bass is feeling stiff, I do this for a few bow strokes and it seems to limber it up a bit. I think playing it often will do more than leaving music on, but if you do leave the music on;- my dog, Mars, prefers Stan Getz and Astrud Gilberto,....

My reasoning for using the method I developed is that all four strings are ringing either due to direct playing it or sympathetic vibration. That means the whole bass is being driven from every string. (hopefully) You can hear all the overtones ring fully- and I believe that is the key.

I don't have enough fingers to pull off your system.:D

My bass wasn't played for about 10-12 years when I bought it. It was stiff and didn't speak as well when I first got it. True, I have done some set up and added a C-extension. (Which, incidentally, I think has a profound effect on "opening up" an instrument.)

After eight years of owning this instrument, it sounds much better now. Not just to me, but my section mates in the orchestras I play in. Part of this, not all- is due to me "coaxing the sound" out of the instrument.

If I could demonstrate it- you could hear the difference just a few minutes makes. I call it "waking up".

FWIW
Brian

For those interested:

http://www.dalemfg.com/acousticaladjustment_021.htm

Obviously a bass would be much more involved, but you guys asked.
:cool:
Brian

I'm sure the quickest and easiest route (for those who can afford it) is to just buy an old bass to begin with.
For someone in my lack of income bracket :( finding a bass that is well played in and speaks to me is a challenge. It seems most practical to get the last ounce of tone out of my current bass.
I am in the market for a 200 year old Italian bass under 5K if anyone knows where I might find one.:D

Vibration DeDamping
 

Greg has played several instruments which have been treated with the Vibration DeDamping process.

FWIW, I've been using Prof. Gerhard A. v. Reumont's Vibration DeDamping procedure on basses for several years with very good results. This systems uses a frequency adjustable mechanical device attached to the bridge of the instrument which sets the plates into high amplitude vibration during 12-15 precisely controlled steps from approx 50 to 12,000 Hz. The lowest frequency steps starting at about 50Hz are run for 5 to 10 hours each and I can guarantee that a few hours of this can get your wife VERY mad at you as it is VERY loud (good ear protection is an absolute must). Unlike loudspeakers, all of the energy is directed into the tables of the bass and the top of the instrument can actually be seen (with a stroboscope) to move with an amplitude of between 1/16" and 1/8" at the ff hole area continuously. That is far more amplitude than you will ever see as a result of playing at FFFF. Here is a link to more info in case anyone is interested.

Prof. Reumont's book "How to Improve the Resonance Condition of Musical Instruments by Vibration Dedamping" has been translated into English and is available from Henry Strobel Books for about $30.00. Henry added this statement on the ordering page.

"Describes the author's twenty-five years of experience and the methods and equipment he used to "play-in" string instruments. (Only for experts who can properly evaluate and apply this process.)"

Reumont's method was patented in Germany and was licensed to several musical instument makers. When his patent expired, he wrote his book which explains all of the how, what, why and whens of the process. Reumont was a professor of Engineering prior to his retirement. His specialty was relieving stresses in structures. He is also a life long doublebassist.

Me too. God why didn't I think of this? Its so obvious!! Rather than wasting time trying to get my bass to sound better, I should buy one that is already perfect!:D

Can't you just build one that is already perfect?;)
BG

Yes, I have played a few of Bob's basses that had the Vibration Dedamping process done to them. Although I didn't play the basses before the process, I am a believer in the process. They have tone in spades.
Bob, surely at some point when finances improve I'll come see you.

Someone..
 

Someone PLEASEZZZZZ come by and play my Cornerless bass and feel your innards shake when you play the two bottom strings as well as listen to the G and D which sound as thick as a bridge cable and tell me if any new Bass can sound like this with any of these 'mad scientist' methods. Then, please play one of Arnold's handmades as well as my Simba' from Jeff and then tell me how these good newbies sound in comparison as well as your souped-up gadgeted newbies as compared to my Storionish Bass.

I just want to hear it from someone playing all three examples between actually old, New and 'vibrated' New.

Is that too much to ask? Then, and only then can we put this theory to rest. If you don't compare it to some good old Basses, we will not know what it does.

Also, do Basses ever crack while doing this test? All Basses crack somewhere while being brokin-in during the first 50-100 years somewhere at least..

Ken - you need to go back and read the title of this thread. It is "Breaking in a bass", not comparing old basses to new ones or vibrated basses to old ones. Come on Ken, stop comparing Apples and Oranges. You might as well be saying that old basses sound better than Cremona plywood basses. We all know that to be true, but that was never the question. There is far more than "breaking in" process that makes an good old bass sound great (but time isn't going to make a bad old bass sound great). No one can duplicate the effects of time on the molecular structure of the wood. Breaking in, whether by playing or other method, is simply the process of relieving the internal stresses of an instrument. Once an instrument has been broken in, Vibration DeDamping does absolutely nothing. However, on brand new instruments, what Vibration DeDamping does IMO is simply amazing. I also use it anytime that I do major repairs that incur the removal of the top. Customers tell me that it sounds just like it did before the repairs were done.

I am not going to get into a discussion on whether Vibration DeDamping works or not. It has worked for me in the past and that is all that matters to me. I simply wished to point out that Reumont's Vibration DeDamping method does exist and has been reviewed positively by such well know violin authorities as Joseph Curtin. There have been very positive articles written by persons other than Reumont on the subject of Vibration DeDamping that are also available. If your mind is closed on this matter, that's your business. I'm not going to try to convince you or anyone else otherwise. However, don't think for a second that Reumont's methods can be compared to the old schemes such as putting a speaker in front of a instrument and playing loud music or tones. All you have to do is put your hand on the instrument and feel how little of the audio energy has been transferred to the plates of the instrument. Such schemes might possibly work on a violin or other instruments with smaller, relatively thin plates, but on a bass it isn't going to happen. The plates are simply too big, thick and stiff for air transfer to do much, if anything.

Vibration DeDamping is not a gentle process and proper care MUST be exercised, as it has the potential to damage (i.e. crack) an instrument, especially if one tries to cut corners. I read where one person thought he could "improve" the process without using Reumont's methodology or buying the expensive equipment that Reumont specifies. The net result was an instrument that had to be sent to the shop for fairly major repairs. Even with proper care, broken strings sometimes occur. However, I have not heard on anyone damaging an instrument when they followed Reumont's instructions.

Ok ok..
 

I think we are talking about two slightly different things. I agree that playing a Bass does help to break it in and this Vibrating technique you refer to may help it further and faster BUT my point is as you have just said, "No one can duplicate the effects of time on the molecular structure of the wood".

I just want to make it VERY clear that anything short of a good Bass being very old will not sound or respond like a very old Bass no matter how much you 'shake 'n' bake' it....

If you have a newish kind of Bass, play it as much as you can to break it in. The methods described above has worked according to the witnesses postings. If you want an actual Real OLD BASS, then get one because nothing you can do will make it old before its time..

Bob? Are we on the same page now? Close maybe buddy?

I will try Brian's methods of 'D'/'A' 5ths for a warm up each time before playing whenever time allows and see what shakes. Brian? On that 'E'-string to 'D' de-tuning, will I get the same results just using my Extension stopped on the 'D' to play that 5th with the 'A' string or does the length matter?

Ken,

No, you can stop the D on your extension. I was assuming that Greg did not have one... I stop my extension like that.

I may be up to Philly in the near future, so I will try to get John to take me out to your place. I would love to play that "Storioni". I also want you to take a look at the "Heifetz" up close and personal.

Brian