Wood Etc. as it relates to Smith Basses..
 

Over the years we have offered our parts and sometime woods for Sale on and off depending on availability as well as policy. To get the ball rolling I will post a few related links from our website to look over. Please feel free to start you own thread or ask any related questions in the Forum for discussion.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpa...econtents.html
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/options.html
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/access...arts_index.htm
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/accessories/default.html

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/models...mycontents.htm
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/sawmill/sawdefault.html
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/ft/default.html

Cherry :confused:
 

What sound does cherry exactly produce? One of the leading musical instrument builders of this country told me that cherry was an exellent wood choice for a bass body center, due to its light weight and sound, but in fact I've never heard of any cherry bass.
It's interesting for me because -although my next bass will be a Smith for sure now- originally I've been thinking of having one built here. The problem was that I wanted swamp ash then, which doesn't grow in Europe. So we started thinkink of domestic wood choices and it turned out that there weren't so many. Hungarian ash for example (used earlier by German company Esh - used to own their bass-) has even more aggressive mids compared to swamp, and is usually extremely heavy, etc. (This lack of wood choice would explain why most European classical string instruments used to be built of maple, pinewood and ebony...)
Same sound as maple, or goes deeper?

Hmmm....
 

I've never played a Smith with a Cherry core, but have a Black Tiger with Cherry Lams. Sorry, I know that's not much help. I would say the tone would be well rounded like a Mahogany but with an extra kick that you would expect from Maple. I might be wrong, but I don't think Ken uses Cherry any longer??? :confused: Maple, Mahogany, and Walnut are great Core choices if he doesn't. ;)

Ken, this is right up your alley. Give us the poop :eek: on Cherry as the Core wood (even if you don't use it any longer).

Ebony?
 

Ebony is not from Europe. It is imported from Africa and India mainly. Many countries but wood form others for centuries including the USA. How about the Bow woods? Those are from Tropical America usually.

On the Cherry, it is almost as hard as Maple and Walnut so I don't see the light weight part about it. Many fine Hungarian Basses, Cellos and Violins have been made with domestic Carpathian Maple which is not so hard or heavy. Try some of that and I am sure you will like it. As for the Bass itself, I don't know what your Luthier can do but I would easily make good Basses with the same Maple as used there for Violins.

Tonight as a matter of fact I did a Symphony Rehearsal with a bass believed to have been made in Hungary. It has an Italian Label but is a counterfeit. It's my Bisiach labeled Bass. It sounds great and is one of my lightest Basses but not small at all. Must be the wood used.

Figured wood?
 

Thank you! Interesting. (Yes, I knew ebony was an exception.)

Just one more question. Do highly figured woods sound significantly better? Are they denser? I would like a black walnut T&B and maple core, but I don't think I could afford figured walnut...

afford figured walnut?
 

Most of our GNs and even some MW Bolt-ons have figured Walnut. It is the degree of Figure that sets the price in my Basses at least.

On the sound, Figure is usually more molecules of wood brunched together thereby having more mass. Like rolling up a piece of paper into a small ball. It is no denser for its size then a larger sheet or paper. Same thing in wood or anything else. What sounds better is what your ear likes alone just like the taste of food. What some love, others hate!

Number of body pieces
 

Ken, I haven't made up mind which bass to choose yet, but now I'm thinking about ordering a BSR-5M-A. Do you build two piece bodys? (Without a center block...)

-A?
 

The '-A' stands for Black Hardware in our code system. The only woods we do in 2-piece bodies without the center block is Walnut, Avodire' and Tiger maple. The Maple in the wider widths is as available. Walnut we have plenty in stock in wider widths. Avodire' is also currently in stock if you favor a slightly lighter weight than Maple in a light colored wood.

Sorry, I thought A stood for Ash. That's what I meant :( Do you have Ash in narrower pieces?

narrower pieces?
 

Do you mean 'wider' pieces? No, currently all the Ash we have is cut into body wings and center blocks. We bought this lot of Ash in 1997 even before we moved into this building. It was about 500 bd.ft. of 8/4 (2 inch thick) kiln dried narrow width (5-6") lumber. In that same time be have purchased 25-50,000 bd.ft. each of figured Maples and various Walnuts. We rarely make a Bass using Ash these days as it is only used only our lower cost handmade Basses in the J and M series bolt-ons. Most of when we build are laminated bodies but in the solids, figured Maple is #1 by far followed by Black Walnut.

Yes, sorry I meant "narrower only?". I like the light weight and the sound of ash. but then It'll be an MW or GN with maple core and walnut t&b.
Or maybe an M with maple core, ash wings. Those ash parts must be very dry and resonate very well due to the long time they've been stocked.

To my ear walnut produces a bit clearer lows and more cutting highs, compared to ash, is that right?

sound and aging
 

All of our woods are aged for several years before going into our Basses. I still have some wood that was 5-10 years old when the Ash came in.

The 'Core' is the center or a 3, 5, or 7-piece laminated body wing. The piece in the middle of a Bolt-on body under the Pickups is the 'Center Block'. this is on both un-laminated Ms or laminated MWs. On a Neck-thrus like the GN you mentioned under the Pickups is the actual Neck and in the Back we laminate Bubinga and Maple top beef-up the thickness of the Neck to match the Body.

On the sound, what you hear is what you hear. On Smith Basses you may find different results than from other makers as the finish we use is entirely our own and produces part of the sound. For me, Ash is brighter and thinner sounding than Walnut. Walnut has more Mids and a thicker sound but both are clear sounding. Maple has less mids and has more under current lows and tight HIs.

Sorry again for having to correct me all the time, I wanted to write center block for the M, but was very tired in the evening. And thanks for the useful info.

Although I have not had the pleasure to actually play a Ken Smith, I have listened to enough songs featuring Smiths to convince me that I WANT ONE!!!!!! I have listened extensively to Al Turner's CD and The Annointed Pace Sisters CD featuring Darrell Freeman on bass and am floored by the sound of both!! Al's Black Tiger has amazing clarity and punch while Darrell's BSR bass (bubinga top and back w/ maple core?) seem to have more "growl", which appeals to my ear a little more. Does bubinga really have more "growl" than walnut?

As soon as I am blessed with the funds, I will either buy a new or used Smith 5 NT.


A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste! :cool:

well..
 

Besides Bubinga there is Shedua. We happen to have a nice quantity of it in stock that is well figured. Our Bubinga stock is nearly gone and we will not re-stock until the Shedua has been mostly used up. These are structurally and tonally interchangeable woods. The main difference is the color. I happen to prefer the Shedua and it is also more figured as far as our stock goes.

On Tone, without hearing each Bass in your hands instead of a recording, who can say which Bass or wood has more growl?

Exactly! +1 Ken. ;)

I CONCUR!!! THE PROOF IS THE PLAYING-NOT THE HEARING!!!!!!

Well.,,..
 

Not exactly. My point is that the sound of the Bass is not necessarily the recorded sound but rather the unrecorded sound.

Yes, I get it-you mean live vs memorex, right? Also, is it my understanding that if I want to order a bass made with bubinga top and back, I will have to choose shedua instead due to your low supply of bubinga? I have a Peavey Cirrus with a bubinga top and walnut back as well as a Warwick Thumb bolt-on with a shedua body. I not only prefer the sound of the bubinga/walnut combination, I also prefer the look of bubinga. My other choice would be walnut/walnut.

Thank you for your expertise, Ken.

morado grades?
 

Hi Ken, (and other wood enthousiasts)

I have a question about the top and back woods on my '89 bt5eg.
Does Morado (which is the top wood i think) have grades like the walnut and maples have?

Because i haven't seen alot of Smith basses with a morado top.
And all the other morado tops have this dark yellow colour with a dark brown black grain.

Mine however has this very bright orange colour (as seen on this picture).
Attachment 949

Does that mean i am blessed with a good grade of morado or am i less lucky and have a lesser grade? (The answer won't change my oppinion of this amazing bass and even better sound).

The back of my bass is walnut and i was wondering is this a lower grade of walnut because it is a back, because there are thes dots and knots in it?
Attachment 951

i'd like to learn more about woods and as it relates to sound, i had the pleasure of playing 4 NT ken smith basses with 5p wings and 5p necks.
And they all have this great organic sound and that smith character.
but i played a tiger maple top and back 6 string and a quilted maple(lower grade) 6 string is there a big difference in tone between these 2 maples (i don't think i could compare because the quilted had a morado fingerboard) and does the grade affect tone or is it for cosmetic reasons mostly?

Thx in advance for the answer, (sorry for the amount of questions in 1 post)

Mattijs De Graeve

questions..
 

Humm.. depending on who you ask the answers will differ. I have never graded my Morado Top woods or the Fingerboards for that matter. It either works or it doesn't. Not being a figured species by nature we just use Morado where and when we use it and not by grade. The wood itself comes from Bolivia and Brazil, has about 3 varieties that make it what it is (like similar maples etc) and varies in color as well.

On the Walnut Back, if it had a few more of what you call 'knots' it would be considered 'Birdseye' Walnut. Now, you have a rare piece of wood on the Back.

On the sounds you experienced between two varieties of Maple, let me say that a Smith Bass is an organic and personal type of instrument by design. It reacts to the type and density of the various woods it is made from. The Pickups just amplify the wood. The Circuit just EQs the pickups. First comes the Bass, then comes the Parts.. That's how this came about from the get go when I started as far as my concept goes.

Thx for the quick answer ken!

Mattijs

Bubinga
 

Keith,

I just got a BT6EG 96, Bubinga Top/Back/w Mah core and let me tell you that the sound is totally un-real. Tone for days. I also heard The Pace Sisters bass stuff and the sound has nothing on this Monster BT6. If you do get the funds to get a Smith, try to get the older 90 to 96 BT. ITS CRAZY!!!

Mike

Walnut - Maple Combinations + Other Woods?
 

Hi Ken, and all,

I hope this is the right place to post this question.

From what I understand, the most common combinations for body construction that Ken uses is Walnut Top/Back + Maple core, or Maple Top/Back + Walnut core.

I wanted to ask what are the distinctive characteristics of these combinations. My understanding is that Walnut provides good lows and low mids, and Maple helps to add clarity, definition and good high frequencies, but I might be completely wrong. Since the woods are the same, but the combinations different, I'm curious about the differences produced by them.

I'm also very curious about the outcome of the Ken Smith basses that have used Cocobolo for the top and back. I'm in love with Cocobolo wood, but I've never had the change to play a Ken Smith made with Cocobolo wood.

Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge, and apologies if this question has been asked before.

Ok, well, your description doesn't quite meet my ear here. It is the Walnut that gives the maple the mids and definition and not that other way around. As fa as Cocobolo goes, new regulations for exporting or importing instruments is a problem with Cocobolo. By the time rules were changed on quantity of wood to allow single instruments, I had already sold off all of my Cocobolo stock. Also, the paperwork is expensive just to declare what you have and agencies around the world do not even now what to allow or not.



So for the two main combinations I like, the Walnut is the brighter and the Maple, maybe the smoother. Depends on the individual pieces used. Also, the neck and fingerboard wood makes sound as well. There is variation inn all woods as fat as sound goes so there is no exact science.

Ken,

Thanks for much for taking the time to answer my question.

Thank you for clarifying the tonal qualities of Walnut and Maple and their combination. I've been going through the Wood Species page on the site, and learning more about the qualities of each wood. It's really helpful to hear your thoughts and experience about the combination.

If you don't mind, I would like to ask another related question:

Black Tiger Elite basses seem to have a 3 piece body, but I've seen many KS basses with a 5 pc body. Is there any difference in tone or sound quality between 3 pc or 5pc bodies?

Thanks in advance

Slight difference in the 3/5 pc bodies.. I prefer the 3 for a more organic sound. the 5 is slightly brighter as the extra laminates divide the woods that much more like an extra thin wall between them. So, 3s it is now..

Thank you Ken, it makes a lot of sense.