Guitar and Pear-Shaped
 

Hello everyone,

A while back I posted a question up on another prominent internet DB forum regarding the history and nature of guitar-model basses. Unfortunately, my post must have been a few days after the host of this forum departed, meaning I missed out on a very knowledgeable resource to slake my curiosity. So I would like to ask the same question here: does anyone know about the origins of these interesting cornerless specimens? Someone pointed to the violones of Pietro Zenatto, of which there appear to be a few cornerless examples.

Cheers,

Charlie

origins..?
 

I have seen quite a few but mostly in pictures. I did play one recently that is just coming on the market but being shown only privately. It has a huge thick Italian sound but in my opinion it needs 20-30k to be fully restored. The value of these is more like supply and demand. Very few people want them. If the same Bass had Violin corners the asking price could be much higher. As far as origins, unless they are labeled and authenticated, it is hard to tell who actually made them. It has been common to see names like Testore, Zenatto and Storioni on these Guitar Basses but much harder to prove they actually had anything to do with making them.

Currently I am looking at two of these Basses for personal interest. One is a small Bass with a 36.5" string length and the other is about a 7/8ths size Bass. Also, I was once shown pics of David Walter's Guitar Bass (att. Testore) before it went up for sale but I had no interest in it. It was purchased by a NYC Orch. professional.

Of the three great sounding Basses I have played in the last year or so, one was a Guitar Shaped Bass. The other two were attr. to the Seraphin shop and Maggini. The Maggini I don't buy at all but is a great Bass. The Seraphin was the best of the 3 or rather close to the Guitar shaped one which was attr. to Storioni.

I have some doubts about any of these Basses to be made by those famous names but in either case, they were fantastic Basses. Maybe they are what the claim to be. How would I know? I wasn't there watching when they were made!!

I think cornerless is the best shape for bass sound. The instrument can vibrate more as a unit without stiff corners mucking things up. However, cornerless basses are very difficult to pick up and move around, and the long rib bouts are sitting ducks for long cracks. When I designed my "Ergonomic" bass I envisioned a cornerless, assymetrical blob of a bass. But I added the upper corners so the player could more easily transport the bass, and to help prevent those long cracks.

ah haaa..
 

You know Arnold, I never thought of it that way. Your Ergo Basses have so many other things going on, I never viewed it much as a Cornerless Bass. Does making the upper part a Gamba take away any of the sound you think? Can the ribs be reinforced internally to help prevent long cracks or would that partly defeat the purpose? Could you put a cross strip on the outer Rib for lifting the Bass like moulding as it turns downwards and finish over it like the outer linings on German and some English Basses have?

Bob Gladstone
 

I recall Bob Gladstone owning a guitar shaped bass. Anyone know what happened to it?

I have asked myself a lot of the above questions about the cornerless bass I am making now. Since I don't have an actual specimen that I am copying I am going by the old trusted method of seat-of-the-pants. My side cross braces are going to be minimal so as not to impede movement. I am just getting back to it now after a bunch of repairs and student set ups.

My side wood is giving me some problem with unintentional bumps, but I am ironing them out with some luck.

Arnold, did you use regular lining on the ergo or did you beef them up on the lower bout?

Cornerless Bass
 

I am in the process myself on closing a deal on my first Guitar shaped Bass. This will be for my personal use. Soon after my Hart/Fendt comes out of restoration, this Bass (if I get it) will go into restoration right behind it if Arnold can take the job. Then we can study it and see what made this one sound so great if possible.

This posting is a bit premature but I am confident I will have the Bass soon. I will not discuss what Bass it is until all the ink has dried and it's in my personal possession.

Hey, do we call these Bass Guitars?

NOOO NOT BASS GUITARS:eek: :eek: Those are the silly things we first saw on MTV Unplugged, a big acoustic guitar that is supposed sound good unamplified.

lol
 

Kidding... Look, in a few days or so I should have this newly acquired Italian Guitar shaped Bass. I will post some pics for all to see probably in 'This Old Bass' section. The title of the thread will be the name of the maker the Bass has been attributed to. I will post a message here as well but with a link to the new thread.

I just thought that a Bass with a Guitar shape could at least be humorously called a Bass Guitar. It needs a lot of work but the fretboard looks good from what I recall.. LOL.. Fingerboard!!!.. kidding..lol :D

Does it have a fancy headstock?

Headstock?
 

Yea, you can say is does. Wait till I post the pics. It's coming home tomorrow.

Edit: Tomorrow came! http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...n_Storioni.jpg

It's here..
 

I just posted this on the d'Salo Thread. I will make a page for my website in the next day or so and then post the link or pics. It needs a huge restoration but it is playable now. If I don't play it as much as I can now, it could easily be a year before the Bass is fully restored not to mention settled back into its old sound again.

I have posted a new thread for this Bass under the Italian School titled Cornerless Italian Bass as this is a perfect example of how the Italians stood alone on making some of the greatest Basses ever.

A very sweet aquisition indeed!! Now that you've got a bonafide one of these, I can't wait to get all the details on it. Thanks for posting the measurements. I'm so used to the gamba form it is hard for me to think of these as double basses. This is one with the sloping shoulders. One has to wonder why one shape dominated and the other is so much rarer.

Oh, by the way, I post sometimes somewhere's else as:

Here is the start of a new cornerless bass that I am building.
www.upnorthstrings.com/cornerlessbass.html

I had never thought about making a cornerless bass, but after seeing yours...

You mentioned that you acquired the wood from Fred Lyman about 10 years ago. What was the length of the ribs? I wonder if any of the usual suspects (wood suppliers) would be willing or are able to cut rib wood in the length required for cornerless bass?

I took the opportunity to look at the rest of your website. I love that bass photo with the Chicken!

Hi Bob,

The rooster helps me with some finishing when he is not busy, he is very good with a gray pad. ;) ;)

As for the wood, I got the top wood from Fred Lyman with some other back and side wood. This top is from Fred but the back and sides are from Battenkill. I got a couple big slabs from him and sliced them into backs and sides. I have enough for a couple more basses. :cool:

It is an interesting project and I am going by the seat of the pants method. But that is the most fun, isn't it?

My plan was approved by Paul Warburton so I should be okay on that front.

ok,ok, so there is no corner blocks? Just the top and bottom?

Wood length..
 

Wood for ribs and back can be any length. I have had maple as long as 16' and walnut at 12' is not uncommon either. 8-10' is more of an average. I sold wood to Arnold for his Ergo II Bass and recently supplied him with some Claro Walnut for a Testore model he is making and some flamed Imbuia (brazillian walnut nick named) for a Bass he will make in the future.

You probably can do long resawing in your shop, but the average guy needs to have someone do that before he buys it. Most of the places where I get big leaf maple from don't even like to resaw 48" long for 9-10" wide ribs. Even at that, I have to do the thicknessing myself.

I am accepting opinions on this question of what shape you prefer. http://www.upnorthstrings.com/cornerlessbasspage4.html

Thanks in advance, and please respond here in Ken's corner.