Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Allen
Ken,
Thanks alot for your reply! Im still curious about how bassists were heard in the old days. From looking at pictures and videos, they are not using an amp and are just playing into a mic. Was the signal from this mic sent to some speakers for the audience, or was it just for recording purposes and any bass that the audience got was purely acoustic? I want to know if guys like PC, Sam Jones, Doug Watkins, LaFaro, etc were playing totally acoustic, in which case a lot of what they were doing in live situations was probably lost to the audience. Or was there some kind of reinforcement so that what the audience heard was more like the records from that time where the bass is heard much clearer and louder due to the proximity of a mic?
Thanks for your help,
Aaron
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I will have to make an assumption here. When they had a Mic, it was probably pumped into the house system and/or for recording if it was being recorded. I had seen quite a few live performances in my early days where there were no Amps or Mics at all. How much Bass was heard? Not much if at all. Was it felt? Maybe, slightly..
I played in Jazz Band at school with Guts and no amp. I don't think the Bass was heard that much either but if heard, was more of a whisper as compared to the thick recorded sound you hear on a re-mixed Ray Charles record. The importance of hearing more Bass I think is a new thing.
I remember one guy who was rehearsing at a studio and was bragging about his Bass. First off, it was a pretty looking Gamba style 3/4 with a nice Lions head at the top. He bragged how great his 'Italian' (some name that didn't exist) Bass cut thru a big band without a Mic or Amp. The funny thing was I couldn't even head him in that room playing with a trio. When I worked in the Pit for a week playing for Linda Hopkins who opened for Sammy Davis Jr. I had the pleasure to meet Al McKibbon who was Sammy's bassist then. He was also the Bassist with Ray Charles earlier and had a fairly nice Bass that he called a Stainer. It is for sale now as such which I highly doubt it is even from that century let alone a real Stainer. Players back then in Jazz (and Classical) often bragged about what kind of Bass they had. Often it was due to being ripped off at the time of sale. Examples include Milt Hinton's so called Goffriller which in my opinion is a Germanic type Bohemian Bass and also Ray Brown's Amati which we all in the business believe it to be of British origin. Gary Karr's Amati is another Myth in the Bass world.
I just had to go there for a minute because the player's ego often sounds louder or better in ones head than does the Bass to the audience listening. I remember hearing from Band leaders in my early days 'the Bass is too loud' while playing. To me, it was barely loud enough to carry the band. In their mind, the Bass was acoustic and the Amp was an annoyance to the Horns who in my opinion always dragged the beat. The Bass got in their way as it plays actual notes along with the drums playing time. Notes and time equals exposure to the horns which was a threat to them as they preferred to lay back and blow on the beat or around it rather than on top of the beat so they were heard in time.
The music played with the acoustic non-amped Bass includes small combos as well. I played many a duo and trio in NY clubs either as the actual bassist or just sitting in. There were no Mics or amps that I can remember and these include some pretty big names in Jazz.
Even on old big band or pop singer recordings from the 40s, 50s and 60s, the Bass is barely heard and they had a Mic in most cases. Many of them recorded on one track, two and four with only later stuff being 8 tracks. I remember 16 being the norm until about 1975 when the 24 track boards hit the studios. Sometimes, the Bass was only as loud as it could be heard acoustically because they didn't have a way back then to bring it up in the mix. Why? Because there was very little mixing capabilities to begin with back then.
Take any Bass and play it with low action of about 3-4mm on the G-string and then hear the volume change with the same Bass at 7-10mm under the G. Then imagine having gut strings at 15-20mm off the FB at the end and try playing a solo in thumb position.. lol
It just wasn't done. The Bass was not played like that in jazz back then. Our own
Carlos Henriquez today is playing with Guts, higher action (not 20mm I hope) and totally acoustic with Wynton Marsalis. Carlos is not alone as there are many trying to re-live the days of Paul Chambers and his kind playing gut strings without an Amp. Just talk to any old timer in person who played Bass before 1950 or even 1960 for that matter and ask them what it was like. Also, the day that Steels came out was not the day that everyone switched. People do not usually change habits that easily.
I saw a beautiful French Bass one day not long ago in a shop that was getting repaired. It belonged to a current professional Orchestra player and had Gut Strings on it. This goes to show you that some still play Gut in Orchestra, not many but some. Last summer I put some Pirastro Chorda Guts on a modern Italian Bass I had and did some Concerts with it as well as several rehearsals. It was fun, it was loud but it was a test, only a test.
If you want to hear the Bass as it is heard on modern recordings, you need an Amp in most situations. If you want to play your best and use the entire Bass for jazz, you need low action Steel strings and an Amp for live playing. Anything less than that on the equipment list I believe is a strain.
I have done a few duo and trio Gigs lately without the use of an Amp. In each case, I raised my Bridge adjusters up a full turn on each side at the least. I have another duo Gig in a few weeks and will do the same. Having a nice Bass helps of course and having a loud Bass is even better. Still, I play my best on these Basses with lower string height and with less muscle playing than I would with an Amp. In Orchestra, it is mostly with a Bow and a section of Basses. Often in the Pizz sections we have to play quite loud and often do better with higher action than with lower due to the pluck style and sound volume needed acoustically.
To answer part of your question on the players list, I can say that I only saw and heard Sam Jones live and in person and he was not using an Amp. It was a duo gig both times. One time he was subbing for Reggie Workman with a Guitar/Bass duo where I would sit in each week so I know there was no amp there. The other was Piano/Bass. I also heard Major Holley in a Piano duo as well many times and would sit in weekly playing his Bass. On Reggie's gig, I played what ever Bass the player had. I also met and sat in on Wilbur Ware's Bass one night when he was filling in for Reggie as well. This is a 'dim' memory as I probably blocked it out having not liked the Bass or his set-up. Wilbur though was a legend even by that time.
Playing Bass without an Amp was quite common in the clubs in NY. I did it quite a number of times. The problem came when the band was loud and you didn't have a volume control!
That sucks..
