Quote:
Originally Posted by jessting
I posted this on TB forums, and it created an off-topic storm with very little useful advice produced. So let me try this here.
I picked this bass up locally. Found it on cragslist. It appears to be an old German bass with a violin shape. I am curious as to what your opinions are on the age and origin of this bass. Thomas Martin saw the photos and suggested it was a Saxon instrument.
It needs neck work but the body seems solid. No open cracks or seams.
Thanks in advance. JT
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Yes, I agree with Tom on this. I watched the Thread over on TB as well when you posted it there and then got a bit confused when 'King' was mentioned.
Why, well this Bass of yours looks like it has distress and cracks that you don't see on a Plywood. Also, if there ever was a King made as a carved Bass in USA or a German import, I have never seen one. I am no expert on King basses at all so let me say that now. Actually, I am no expert on any basses really, just a bit more experienced than most.
This Bass looks re-finished as well. The edges have been softened from the sharper make of the original German work. That could have been the reason why it looked like a Ply King as Plys do not have the same beaded edges and corners that Carved Basses do.
Kings and other American Basses were not shape or style conceived independently. They are copied from European Basses that were either original like the German Gamba or the 20th century German Violin model with sloped shoulders like your bass is which is actually taken from the Italians or Italian Basses that were cut down to their slope shouldered shape.
The design on the Bass is just that. A design. It is mostly found on German Basses from the late 19th century thru the first quarter or so of the 20th century. I think this is a similar design as seen on the backs of the King and American Standard Basses. Having that design does not make it a King as King took it from the Germans. I have even seen it on at least one English Bass but from the later 19th century and that Bass looked Germanic in ways as well. Obviously it was a German type model if not a German carcass bought 'in the white' and completed in England. Most people looking at that Bass thought it was German but with a closer look it seemed that English was possible as it was labeled, just that it was not a typical English Bass of the period.
Back to your Bass, it greatly resembles the imports brought into the USA in the early 20th century that were either labeled 'Morelli' or 'Pfretzschner'. I had a Morelli labeled Bass that was 100% identical to several Pfretzschner basses I had seen. Recently, I have learned that both 'brands' were imported or rather sold-as under either name from the same importer-wholesaler. I say 'brands' because the paper labels were actually placed inside the basses here in USA. Some of the Morelli basses were branded internally. Some were labeled as well and some only labeled with no brand at all. I have seen two styles of basses made meaning that they were made either differently in the same shop-factory or by two different shops/factories. The Gamba models often more plain looking integral bassbars and the violin model with regular bar and nicer wood throughout. There was a shop/maker in its 3rd generation with the name C.F. Pfretzschner (Carl Friedrich I, II and III) and also a commercial factory/business named A.G. Pfretzschner. The basses with the Pfretzschner name were labeled G.A. Pfretzschner. In all of the books I have including the ones specifically about German makers, not a single refrence is seen of a Pfretzschner with G.A.. This to me is obviously a fictitious name for importing and re-labeling factory instruments. The basses branded Morelli are reported to have been made by Karl Herrmann who had a shop of some size commercially. His shop either made them in whole or contracted them out. I was told by one old German maker personally that worked in Germany before moving to New York that Herrmann only branded his better insturemnts as 'Morelli'. So, different opinions exist about these German 'imports'. One thing is for sure, the Gamba shaped Basses sold as either Pfretzschner or Morelli from the same importer/distributor raises suspicion. They could fill the order and rename the models or makers if desired by just putting the Morelli label inside the basses intended to be Pfretzschners. Who would know any better back then?
I talk about this Pfretzschner/Morelli relationship as far as imports go because your Bass fits that exact mold. I would say the wood is not quite nice enough for what I have seen branded Morelli but could be the violin model either intended for the Pfretzschner label or just a similar style Bass.
Conclusion; North Germany, c.1900-1930. Thats the location and period that I see.
There will be NO such off-topic
storm over on this Forum as experienced on TB. By the way, I played
the Storm last night (Beeth. 6th) in concert with an Orchestra that I sub in occasionally. I calmed it down to a ripple and a breeze with those fingered 16ths on the C-Ext. of my Gilkes.
