Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Larsson
I suppose you have already seen http://www.contrabass.co.uk/2748.htm, but anyway.
I know that some basses like that are residing around the country. I guess it is only logical to assume that they are even more frequent in Germany... got that impression when I was down there in March. |
I know that bass and the size is on track but that is a late bass for the period and age I am looking for. I am looking for c.1700 - c.1820 or so. Supposedly the American/Yankee maker Prescott took his ideas for his Gamba and Busetto/lower rounded corner and full sized model from one or some German basses at the time. This would be 1811-1830 or so in which some of them were first made in USA.
Also, the Hill family of London c.1760-1780 or so made basses with outer Rib linings that are thought to be of German design. So, where are the Basses that they copied this from? Not 1880 but 1780 and before. Who were the makers? The Klotz family? The elder Neuners? Who?
I would venture to say and guess this. I have an old bass possibly from this period that most believe is English but according to one
professional (I shouldn't really say
expert) thinks it may have been made in Mittenwald for the English market. He mentioned that the Tarr basses were made this way as well. Maybe in the white and finished off there. I pointed out the English style 3-string scroll and asked "this is German??" He replied, "they will make what you ask for!"
We know already that the later Hawkes Basses from about 1890 were contracted to Germany as well as some earlier Basses sold by Tarr (probably not all of the Tarr Basses are German). We also know that England and Germany were not only trading partners but partners in War as they joined the British troops fighting the settlers here in America that were aided by the French. These would be the Prussians I think.
In the Violin market, the English makers from the latter 1700s on thru the mid 1800s had to compete with cheaper imports of 'fiddles' coming from both Germany and France alike. We also know that model wise, the English favored the Stainer and Tirol patterns over the newer introduced Italians of which Amati was the first followed by Strad.
I have seen many 'attributed' English Basses that looked very German in design but English in flavor as well. This I guess would be either an English made German model or a German made English model? How can we tell them apart if for the most part, they are mixed in flavor?
Well, anyway my theory is this on the 'missing basses'. For one, the Germans like their homegrown original old basses. Two, playing a local bass saves them money from buying one imported from England or Italy as these are more expensive in the world market as well. As we see many many Italian & English Basses filling the Orchestras in USA and around the world the Central European Orchestras at least in part (as they too have been spotted with 'some' Italian & English basses) seem content with their own German basses.
If this
Big Bass of mine is of German birth (and it was cut down a bit well over a century ago as well) then it may help to shed some light on this mystery. Mittenwald, even going back 250 years ago were 'contractors' as well as makers of their own brand. We know of mainly the 'brands' of Basses we see here that were made for the most part in the 20th century and shipped in to be labeled by the importer. It's just we havent put 2 & 2 together to see that this is and was not a new idea. It was going on for over a century before, just mainly unnoticed.
I guess with this economic and cultural favored home grown Basses the same could be said for the old Viennese as well. I have personally only seen one full sized Thir Bass in my life over here.
So, the question remains, where are all the really OLD (pre 1850) really BIG (4/4 & 5/4) German Basses from the Mittenwald School?
My next question would be when did they start making basses of this full size regularly in Germany or specifically in Mittenwald.
Funny thing, looking at my big Bass at the ISB, a German says Klotz school and the same day an Italian says Gagliano School. The English for the most part say Central or Northern England while a few have mentioned a maker or two in London. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Do they see just what the want to see or are their eyes just biased subconsciously?