#1
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Mystery Cello 1670?
I know this is a bass forum but I have this cello and since cellos are double bass's little brother I thought someone here may be able to help me ID it. this is the state this cello was in when I received it and I have been moving it from place to place for the last 20 years. decided to do something with it. I had a Hamm violin of similar construction 1830's. It dose have a date of 1670 written on the back in what looks like lead. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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#2
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1670 or $16.70?.. lol
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#3
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Thanks
I did not think it was that early but the construction is so odd I could not place it. Thanks again for the info. At least that's a starting point for me. Note about the construction originally the ribs fit into channel cut into the back. Also there is a repair label J Metheny 1921. I agree that might be a price or a twisted joke.
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#4
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construction..
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#5
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Maybe Prescott Cello
Just looked over your Prescott bass Restore pics. The peg box walls on this cello originally hand inlayed tuner plates not friction pegs. The figured maple sides were fit later. thanks again as usual your help is invaluable.
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#6
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Prescott
Yes, Prescott Cellos were 4-strings and they were mostly but a few not Cellos but Church basses with gears on plates. The double basses were made with 3 strings and most of them have since been converted to 4-strings. A few basses have the old plates with 4-strings and might have been converted in Prescott's time as I don't know of any basses he made in 4-strings originally but they could have been made in 4s as well.
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#7
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have a look at this..
http://www.cello.org/heaven/cowling/prescott.jpg
From; http://www.cello.org/heaven/cowling/makecel.htm Cello Size Comparison .Length of Body Upper Bouts Lower Bouts Pietro Guarneri.............30 inches 13 3/8 inches 17 1/2 inches Santo Seraphin............ 28 3/4 inches 13 13/16 inches 16 7/8 inches Abraham Prescott........ 32 inches 14 1/2 inches 18 5/8 inches |
#8
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wow
This cello measures
body length 29 1/4 upper bout width 13 1/4 lower bout 16 3/8 so I guess it's a true cello? going over link cello page thanks again. |
#9
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Last question
I am going to go ahead and restore this cello. the question that I have is this. The dimensions are odd on this instrument so is it ok to alter some, such as f-stop and neck length or do I stay with original intent. This would also apply to any future basses that I may have to repair. I don't have a problem making structural changes.
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#10
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??
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So, be prepared to spend time and money that you will not receive back as this can turn into a negative cost/value project. Every instrument is different. It's value in the end is usually my guide to what work will be affordable for recouping my investment. Sometimes however, the love for an instrument gets the best of you. I am currently having (amongst other basses) an old Tirol blockless bass restored and repaired as well as altered. The string length will be slightly shortened with a block 'area' cut and its first block installed as it never had one. Many Tirol, German and Bohemian instruments were made without neck blocks and more-so in the style of guitar construction. Before the German countries made violins, they were content making just Lutes and Guitars. The trailed the Italians by about 100 years getting into the Violin. Some believe that Stainer was the first and introduced the violin to the Germans but, I don't think that is 100% accurate. None the less, these Yankee self taught makers learned from a combination of German imports coming in and cabinet making in skills. Combiner together, you have the Yankee basses which include the large Cello-like Church basses and a few smaller ones that were closer to the size of the Cello. If it had tuning gears/plates with machines like double basses and not pegs like a violin, then your instrument was most likely made and intended to be a Church Bass regardless of its size. Maybe!.. I have seen a few cheap german violins with tiny guitar sized gears as well but those I believe were made for students as opposed to professionals. As far as building styles go over the 4+ centuries and the pinpointing of who did what where or when, it's a total mess tyring to line these origins up. It's more like a 400 year free for all. Do what you like and they will sort it out in the future.. lol |
#11
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Great advice
Once again thanks for this info. I will restore this as a church bass and not try to make it into a cello. As mentioned a few posts ago it has a repair label in it from 1922 J Renwick Metheny. Also found a large hand written note on the back listing all the repairs he did to it all of which will have to be undone. Pretty horrific stuff. He was into old instrument stuff so I suspect that is where the 1670 hand written date came from. I don't like to criticize someone who is not here and over such a long time but man what a mess. I have posted some pics of the inside so you will see what I will have to deal with. As for my level I have been repairing and making violins and guitars for 29years god I can' believe how fast time goes. since the back has been cut of ie out of the grove in the back what I would like to do is to fully line the instrument add corner blocks and heel graft the neck so it can be converted to a typical neck joint with new neck block. As I have moved into restoration work I only restore Instruments that belong to me all the while be cognizant of prosperity. With forum like this Upton bass and others the restoration work I have done has come out quite well.
Thanking you again Mike Weems |
#12
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My Prescott bass has signs of the ribs inserted into the back at least and maybe the top. The upper and lower bouts were cut down but I suspect it was blockless just like this cello. Post restoration; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/prescott/ Pre-restoration and restoration pics; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...t-preview.html |
#13
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Yes indeed
That is what I plan to do. Your Prescott pics are where I started. Yes would like to save the old neck as that seams relatively unmarred. Want very much to save the extra volutes at the nut area because if it indeed is a Prescott he carved them. I can re-carve them of course but it won't be quite the same This instrument has always seam special to me thus finely decided to bring it back from the abyss.
Thanks again for all the help. |
#14
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Look here at the Allen and see that most of the bottom cheek box carving is new but blends perfectly by the button. No loss there. http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/allen/ |
#15
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Not what I ment
Sorry my meaning was not clear. I have done quite a few neck grafts. here is a pic that I should have sent with my last post. Again the neck is in good shape but if a graft becomes ness I will do it.
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#16
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And also, note the crafty 3-to-4 string conversion.. 3 gear posts, 4 gears.. The varnish is all original by the way other then some touch up on the new wood and splices in some cracks on the ribs. Olde orange shellac with all the solvents long gone. |
#17
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Nice
Oh yes a volute is always easier to carve than a bead. Not afraid to carve it only speaking from originality stand point. This poor voyager has had too many alterations done to it already. But what ever it needs I'll do.
P.S. Beautiful bass buy the way. Thanks |
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