Bass Age vs Label - Antique Roadshow Moment

[Dave Irwin]

I know the prevailing concensus among the knowledgable is that my new old bass is a 20th century German shop bass and I'm fine with it, but the label does make for a minor mystery. The label seems to be authentic to the maker Franz Feilnreiter as well as the F.F. brand in the bass according to
http://www.bromptons.co/reference-li.../page-202.html
In any event, it sounds good to me.

Here's the pics...

[Adam Linz]

That bass looks like it could be of the time stated by the label. The top looks long to my eye where it meets the neck and the back looks really nice. I don't see so many shop basses that look like this! Regardless, if it sounds good and you love it that is all that matters. Play that beast! Best, Adam Linz

[Ken Smith]

Can I see some more pictures of the scroll, all sides, the Ribs, side views and the end-pin area.

The Bass looks Germanic in nature. There are probably more labels in instruments that were put in there for selling purposes than labels matching their instruments. As far as commercial shop productions, many of those labels are just marketing brands.
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Ok, I found the Sale ad on talk bass with more pictures. Still, it doesn't look typical Viennese to me but, I wasn't there when it was made.

The way it is branded over the label and on to the wood looks original. It could be a bass as labeled. I just don't know the makers work to confirm or deny, sorry.

Looks like a nice bass. How does it sound?

[Dave Irwin]

Thanks Adam & Ken.
My description of the sound probably won't do it justice and we're still getting acquainted but IMO, it has a pretty open/big sound considering it'ts fairly small body. There was a reputable player in the shop when I picked her up that made the same observation. I really enjoyed hearing him play it.

The D and G are stronger but It produces a pretty solid E, again good for it'ts size. I am working through a set up issue affecting the A. Under more brutal pizz, the A bottoms out a little slapping against the FB. The FB doesn't have too much left so I'm a little torn about another planing but will be having it worked on.
Under the bow, there is no issue. It seems to speak well all over.
I'm coming from a Shen Willow, which I consider to be very resonant. This bass matches that but sounds much darker and woodier as would be expected.

It currently has old Belcantos on A-G and maybe a Corelli on the E. not sure.
Will be switching out to some Evah's orchs I have. I might try to get some Evah weichs cause I'm not sure it takes that much to pull sound out of this bass.

There is a bit of a wolf just north of G#, pretty out of the way.

So far I'm very happy. I wish I could find some pics of other basses from the maker but I guess the mystery will have to persist.

Thanks again for looking.

Dave

[Ken Smith]

Here is the schocker for you. That label which has #48 on the lower right corner is pictured in a book I have. Jalovec 'German & Austrian makers' on page 81 and on page 276 of his general encyclopedia of makers. This maker died in 1866.



Is that your Bass? The FF is not there.

On the bass on Ebay, the Label is the same, worn, torn and burnt to look old. It too is the exact same label, #48 but the 8 is torn a bit.



This is why I do not believe all labels in instruments to be true. Dealers copy them from books or steal them from other instruments and then put them in something to increase their value or make them easier to sell. That FF looks like a brand new burned in stamp. Not even 150 years of dirt clogging the letters. Suspicious?

[Ken Smith]

By the way, here is what an actual old label from that period would look like. Don't be so easily fooled. When the bass looks half the age of the label, it probably is!

This bass was heavily used professionally until just recently and has 5 different repair labels. Two of them from the 19th century and 3 of them from the early 20th century. Being repaired over and over again wears even the label, especially if they are moved for repairs and then replaced. The 2 old ones shown look to be on old Vellum, not paper from pulp.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Here is the schocker for you. That label which has #48 on the lower right corner is pictured in a book I have. Jalovec 'German & Austrian makers' on page 81 and on page 276 of his general encyclopedia of makers. This maker died in 1866.
[...]
On the bass on Ebay, the Label is the same, worn, torn and burnt to look old. It too is the exact same label, #48 but the 8 is torn a bit.

FWIW the first label looks to me to be #43 not #48 which would make the second label, if #48 (hard to tell), consistent with the one year later 1865.