My basses unknown to me. Any clues?

[Ken Smith]

First one could be Czech maybe. It's old but what is that Piece of wood down in the center of the Back?

The Second looks Czech as well.

Both Basses are Germanic in style made anywhere from Germany to Russia. Not France, England, Italy, or Spain. Someplace Germany of east of it.

Ages, 50-100 years or so is my estimate.

The Pics are more artistic styled than informative for me for someone looking to ID them. Look at my DB pages. Don't make the wood dark or unclear and show EVERY detail and part of the Bass. More clues are needed so 10-20 pics minimum and nothing at an angle. Makes me me dizzy looking at them.