Thomastik Bel Canto Strings

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Joel Larsson

I had them on for two weeks now. It's the best set seen as a whole I've ever tried; I usually have to combine strings from different sets to make things work. At last I got A and E strings which rumble! I usually have to use gut core strings on my bass to get this sound. Flats and Flexes seem to choke the lower regions of my bass. The sound is extremely even all over the bass, and the volume is quite loud. For solo playing, I can feel that they lack some of the brilliance up high that a good solo string can provide, but it still responds well (and who cares about solo playing anyway). Pizz I found was very neutral. No annoying "mmmMMWAAAH" that can be embarrassing in a section.
Oh, and my bass is 27 years old. Maybe the age theory presented by Nick isn't out of place.

I played at a folk club tonight (see the Down here (NZ) thread).
I waited a long time for my turn to play and was a bit tired when I played - I think that I leaned into the Bel Canti a bit too much, but my brother, who was at the back of the small hall when I played a solo bass piece, said that the sound back there was great! I think that, when I learn not to bow them too hard, they will really come up with the goods. Their pizz sound sounded good tonight too!

[Joel Larsson]

But you're a tough guy, Richard. We all know, and don't want you to compromise that! Can't you just do a Gary Karr and move nearer to the bridge? I did also notice that they were a bit sensitive to bow placement/speed/pressure - and especially to how straight you keep your bow when playing! They were like always having a teacher with you telling you when you aren't playing as you ought to. Kinda liked that. Now I had to take them off and put on my Perm solos, thanks to an exam coming up, and it's the first time that putting on a solo set hasn't seemed like major facelift. I want my Bels back!

I forgot to mention that they sound great EVERYWHERE on the FB; even the A and E strings sounds good in thumb position. Maybe they're a treat for all you Boardwalkin' guys.

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Joel Larsson

I did also notice that they were a bit sensitive to bow placement/speed/pressure - and especially to how straight you keep your bow when playing! They were like always having a teacher with you telling you when you aren't playing as you ought to. Kinda liked that.

don´t want to derail this thead, but thats what bowing plain guts did for me - if you can bow them right(bow placement/bowing angle/speed/pressure) , you can bow everything (imho, ymmv) (richard, sorry for the abbreviations; i mean abbr.; at least i did not use any smilies)(until now:)

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

don´t want to derail this thead, but thats what bowing plain guts did for me - if you can bow them right(bow placement/bowing angle/speed/pressure) , you can bow everything (imho, ymmv) (richard, sorry for the abbreviations; i mean abbr.; at least i did not use any smilies)(until now:)

What does 'ymmv' stand for? I hope you didn't just make that one up!
I hear you, Anslem M. Hawkeye - my plan this morning (I have two more days off before I go back to work) is to really examine my bowing.
Oh, and here's one of those silly abbreviations for you...
NCMF.
(Nice chatting, my friend.)
BTW (by the way) E. Joel, I don't really buy into the idea that playing everything by the bridge is the 'be all end all' - I think I prefer that Rabath guy's approach. WDYT?
(What do you think?)

[Joel Larsson]

My problem, dear Anselm, is that the Bels are a little bit more forgiving than plain gut. I'm not good enough for those yet! And then there is that solo playing problem again...

Richard, I don't like playing everything near the bridge either. Rabbath does have one nifty bowing technique. He can open up his instrument like few other. Do you have his DVDs?
(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)
Myself, I don't have anywhere near his control over my instrument, in any department (and I don't have that kind of money either - I mean, come on, if I had gold strings I'd sound good too!!) so I'll just stick to whatever will make me sound better in the long run. Hopefuly.
Saw him (Rabbath) a few weeks ago down in Germany, and despite being 78 years old, he plays like crazy! One remarkable man and musician, that one.

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by E. Joel

My problem, dear Anselm, is that the Bels are a little bit more forgiving than plain gut. I'm not good enough for those yet! And then there is that solo playing problem again...

Richard, I don't like playing everything near the bridge either. Rabbath does have one nifty bowing technique. He can open up his instrument like few other. Do you have his DVDs?
(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)
Myself, I don't have anywhere near his control over my instrument, in any department (and I don't have that kind of money either - I mean, come on, if I had gold strings I'd sound good too!!) so I'll just stick to whatever will make me sound better in the long run. Hopefuly.
Saw him (Rabbath) a few weeks ago down in Germany, and despite being 78 years old, he plays like crazy! One remarkable man and musician, that one.

No, I don't have the DVDs, but watched him on Youtube demonstrating bowing. I'll have to pass on the gold spun strings too. I suspect that good bowing technique makes vastly more difference than some fancy pants string - I'm sure that Rabbath could bow Weichs!

[Joel Larsson]

Yes he can. He made a bit of a point of showing us students how good our instruments could sound if played properly.

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Joel Larsson

My problem, dear Anselm, is that the Bels are a little bit more forgiving than plain gut. I'm not good enough for those yet! And then there is that solo playing problem again...

Richard, I don't like playing everything near the bridge either. Rabbath does have one nifty bowing technique. He can open up his instrument like few other. Do you have his DVDs?
(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)
Myself, I don't have anywhere near his control over my instrument, in any department (and I don't have that kind of money either - I mean, come on, if I had gold strings I'd sound good too!!) so I'll just stick to whatever will make me sound better in the long run. Hopefuly.
Saw him (Rabbath) a few weeks ago down in Germany, and despite being 78 years old, he plays like crazy! One remarkable man and musician, that one.

On his DVD he says he never uses solo strings because "it makes things easier", yet the Corelli mediums are basically a solo string in gauge and tension. The new Sonores he uses are solo strings tuned down to orchestral pitch...

[Joel Larsson]

I suppose he means that he never plays in solo TUNING. As for his Sonores, I was there when he got a new set of gold-wounds from Arnold Genssler in March. These are custom made for his needs and even if you could theoretically tune them up one note, I strongly doubt that they were produced with the aim to be tuned up. Genssler works very hard to reduce tension, and with the thin gauge I suspect that Rababth uses, solo player as he is, I suppose that means that the specifications may make it seem like a tuned down solo set.

Originally Posted by Joel Larsson

(He has gold spun strings from Sonore. Probably cost at least $2,000, no kidding.)

Just a little info on those Genssler strings... while very far from cheap, the Genssler strings Rabbath uses are far from $2000 - 449 euros, or about USD 645. They're not a specially made model for Francois - they're a standard set that he makes called RED MORGANTE, which Genssler says are the best metal hybrid arco/pizz strings he makes.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Roessler

Just a little info on those Genssler strings... while very far from cheap, the Genssler strings Rabbath uses are far from $2000 - 449 euros, or about USD 645. They're not a specially made model for Francois - they're a standard set that he makes called RED MORGANTE, which Genssler says are the best metal hybrid arco/pizz strings he makes.

This is a Thread about Belcantos.. ok? If you wanna change the subject, make a new thread. I can easily move some things here over there or better yet, maybe I will just do it later when I find the time..

[Josh Holdridge]

Hello,

Can someone please explain what was said in an early post about 'string spin'?
I'm not familiar with this metric and I'm interested since I have a new bass.

To avoid appearance of taking this thread off topic, I'll put in my .02c about bel cantos. I have Flexo 92's on my bass (less than 1yr old) and was reasonably satisfied but not totally. I wanted something darker and warmer, bassically I'm impatient for it to sound old!

Put the BC's on there and immediately liked the deeper, thuddier sound of pizz. A little more gut-like sound, and lower tension than the Flexocors; buttery sound in some of the higher notes.
The jury is still out on the bowing. I'm going to try them in a few rehearsals and see how it goes. I have noticed that some notes seem easier to start but will have to see how they do on vigorous spicatto passages. The tone isn't too different from the 92's, my basses character seems to override the string difference a little bit, but they do have a bit less of an 'edge', which is ok with me.
I seemed to be getting a lot of scratchiness with the 92's though admittedly my technique has a long way to go. But if there is something about the BC's that is better for breaking in a new instrument, then I'd probably keep them on for a while.

[Bin Hire]

One thing I have noticed about strings is that the famous players seem to stick with one type. Apologies if I'm wrong with this statement. I know this was true of NHOP and, I think, Ray Brown. Gary Karr seems to stay with the same strings too? Have they found the perfect string for their purpose? I suppose they have. I have a friend who is a trumpet player and he seems to be constantly trying mouthpieces. I suspect that all these modern 'super strings' are very good. Maybe we just need to stick with one set for a few years and look at our technique. Apologies, I don't mean to be critical, but I think I have a tendency personally to blame the tools when it is the workman (in my case). Just a thought I had.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Josh Holdridge

Hello,

Can someone please explain what was said in an early post about 'string spin'?
I'm not familiar with this metric and I'm interested since I have a new bass.

To avoid appearance of taking this thread off topic, I'll put in my .02c about bel cantos. I have Flexo 92's on my bass (less than 1yr old) and was reasonably satisfied but not totally. I wanted something darker and warmer, bassically I'm impatient for it to sound old!

Put the BC's on there and immediately liked the deeper, thuddier sound of pizz. A little more gut-like sound, and lower tension than the Flexocors; buttery sound in some of the higher notes.
The jury is still out on the bowing. I'm going to try them in a few rehearsals and see how it goes. I have noticed that some notes seem easier to start but will have to see how they do on vigorous spicatto passages. The tone isn't too different from the 92's, my basses character seems to override the string difference a little bit, but they do have a bit less of an 'edge', which is ok with me.
I seemed to be getting a lot of scratchiness with the 92's though admittedly my technique has a long way to go. But if there is something about the BC's that is better for breaking in a new instrument, then I'd probably keep them on for a while.

What bass are you referring to? Your profile is kind of vague.

[Josh Holdridge]

Hi Ken,

The bass I'm referring to is a new Thomas & George Martin 4/4. I guess I was trying to be a little vague to keep certain info on the down low.

[Bunny Hoskins]

Originally Posted by Josh Holdridge

I guess I was trying to be a little vague to keep certain info on the down low.

Welcome to New Zealand buddy.

[Josh Holdridge]

Lol, thanks Bunny. I was hoping to avoid listing my name and then advertising that I have an expensive instrument at home. Oh well, too late for that. I guess it's need to know in relation to my question.

Hope I can find out about my inquiry anyway. . .

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Josh Holdridge

Hello,

Can someone please explain what was said in an early post about 'string spin'?
I'm not familiar with this metric and I'm interested since I have a new bass.

To avoid appearance of taking this thread off topic, I'll put in my .02c about bel cantos. I have Flexo 92's on my bass (less than 1yr old) and was reasonably satisfied but not totally. I wanted something darker and warmer, bassically I'm impatient for it to sound old!

Put the BC's on there and immediately liked the deeper, thuddier sound of pizz. A little more gut-like sound, and lower tension than the Flexocors; buttery sound in some of the higher notes.
The jury is still out on the bowing. I'm going to try them in a few rehearsals and see how it goes. I have noticed that some notes seem easier to start but will have to see how they do on vigorous spicatto passages. The tone isn't too different from the 92's, my basses character seems to override the string difference a little bit, but they do have a bit less of an 'edge', which is ok with me.
I seemed to be getting a lot of scratchiness with the 92's though admittedly my technique has a long way to go. But if there is something about the BC's that is better for breaking in a new instrument, then I'd probably keep them on for a while.

Hi Josh,
I think 'string spin' is referring to the string actually twisting under the bow - this, I guess, would happen with a lighter, more flexible string.
Hey, Ken will undoubtedly correct me if I am wrong here.
I used BCs for about two years and they are a very good string (if you read the old posts on this thread, you'll see that they were my favourite at one point).
I have two basses - a new (2003) fully carved and an old (1950?) plywood. I've mainly used Spiro Weichs, Corelli (I think they were 700s?), BC EP and EP Weichs over the last while. They're all good strings and all work fine on both my basses. I bow lots and pizz lots - obviously each string has advantages and disadvantages. I've got EP Weichs on my main bass at present.
I like what Bin said a few posts ago. I agree that we probably spend too much time changing strings (fun though!).
My humble advice, for what it is worth, is to leave the BCs on your bass and put in some serious time gigging and practising. I found the BCs a tiny little bit too flexible for pizz but, having said that, I used them for some jazz gigs and a lot of gypsy jazz gigs. Give those strings a good go - that's my advice.
Hope that helps a bit.

[Josh Holdridge]

Thanks Richard. It seems sensible what you are saying about string spin, though I'm not exactly sure how that translates into being optimal for breaking in a new bass. Perhaps some engineering genuises will scoff at my underpowered brain but like you say, I'm not worrying about it too much. Just going to play the heck out of the bass and practice a lot, that should go a long way to breaking it in.

I do like the strings though. They're better at spontaneous jazz jam duo sessions with possesed sax players than the Flexocors were, and they bow fairly well.