The 'D' Neck issue..

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Pino Cazzaniga

This is amusing, somehow.
Here the current preference is the one you said, Ken, the thumb at the heel, the second finger opposite, the first finger plays D on the first string.
The trend is for a little stretch of the first finger toward the nut to reach D.
And we name it D neck.
There are many long neck grafts, made until the '60, where in the same position, thumb at the heel, second finger opposite, the first finger plays Eb. We name these Eb necks.
I don't know why they made these long neck grafts, probably they wanted to reach more notes with the hand at the heel in orchestra playing, and a longer string lenght for the gut strings they used these days.
Anyways, the D neck as we call it here, or the "proper" D neck you said, allow us some freedom to find a better balance for middle positions, where some variables are neck height over the top, body outline near the neck, string lenght, bridge height, stop lenght and so on.
It's over the standard, a good reason to play and work on basses, I hope.

So, across the Ocean or rather Ocean'S, my idea of the 'Original' 'D-Neck' verses the 'Modern' 'D-Neck' can be easily explained;
Original D = Modern Eb.
Modern Eb = Original E.
Modern D = Original Db.

I can't tell you what a struggle it is going over the shoulders to the F# or G when climbing up the Neck of a modern D vs. an Original D or modern Eb. I sop much prefer the Eb at the heel for the lower positions to Thumb positions. Takes a half step out and some physical mass as well.

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

So, across the Ocean or rather Ocean'S, my idea of the 'Original' 'D-Neck' verses the 'Modern' 'D-Neck' can be easily explained;
Original D = Modern Eb.
Modern Eb = Original E.
Modern D = Original Db.

I can't tell you what a struggle it is going over the shoulders to the F# or G when climbing up the Neck of a modern D vs. an Original D or modern Eb. I sop much prefer the Eb at the heel for the lower positions to Thumb positions. Takes a half step out and some physical mass as well.

A good rule of thumb I've found is if you can play with your thumb at the heel of the neck, D-1st finger, Eb-2nd finger, E-3rd finger, 4-4th finger...Ie. The Mahler Solo is played with full finger extensions, or if you have tiny hands/massive string length, you can use a small thumb pivot behind the neck. Also...Having the ability WITHOUT pivoting your thumb at all, to play four finger technique starting on D, Eb and E is imperative.

I prefer an Eb neck because I like to have my thumb behind my 2nd finger. Most Viennese basses and students of the Streicher technique will use a bass with an Eb neck.

An Eb neck keeps your hand position consistent all the way up the string. I always play with my thumb behind my 2nd finger. If I want to play a D on the G string all I have to think about is thumb in the crook and the first finger behind it, just like it would be if I were playing in half position...

Then again, I don't even know if this is called an Eb neck or not...This is confusing!


Eb neck - Thumb in crook, 2nd finger across from thumb on Eb, 1st finger behind thumb on D.
D neck...Then what's a D neck?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

A good rule of thumb I've found is if you can play with your thumb at the heel of the neck, D-1st finger, Eb-2nd finger, E-3rd finger, 4-4th finger...Ie. The Mahler Solo is played with full finger extensions, or if you have tiny hands/massive string length, you can use a small thumb pivot behind the neck. Also...Having the ability WITHOUT pivoting your thumb at all, to play four finger technique starting on D, Eb and E is imperative.

I prefer an Eb neck because I like to have my thumb behind my 2nd finger. Most Viennese basses and students of the Streicher technique will use a bass with an Eb neck.

An Eb neck keeps your hand position consistent all the way up the string. I always play with my thumb behind my 2nd finger. If I want to play a D on the G string all I have to think about is thumb in the crook and the first finger behind it, just like it would be if I were playing in half position...

Then again, I don't even know if this is called an Eb neck or not...This is confusing!


Eb neck - Thumb in crook, 2nd finger across from thumb on Eb, 1st finger behind thumb on D.
D neck...Then what's a D neck?

What's a D? Which century? To me the Neck SHOULD be one way, Eb at the heel, D with 2nd finger, period. The you can play the 4th finger across all 4 strings easily with the 1st still in place. With the modern D it's a strain especially on the E and A strings. Descending passages always makes it more noticeable climbing down from TP to reg. pos.

Mahler is played as it is played, no one way. I play D-1, pivot to E-2 and F-4 for the first 3 notes. I rarely use the 3rd finger. I find pivoting to be easier and more accurate than trying to stretch my fingers in an unnatural position. Intonation is my concern, not convenience.

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

What's a D? Which century? To me the Neck SHOULD be one way, Eb at the heel, D with 2nd finger, period. The you can play the 4th finger across all 4 strings easily with the 1st still in place. With the modern D it's a strain especially on the E and A strings. Descending passages always makes it more noticeable climbing down from TP to reg. pos.

Mahler is played as it is played, no one way. I play D-1, pivot to E-2 and F-4 for the first 3 notes. I rarely use the 3rd finger. I find pivoting to be easier and more accurate than trying to stretch my fingers in an unnatural position. Intonation is my concern, not convenience.

You don't stretch your fingers in an unnatural way, you relax your joints and open your hand. I don't know how you can play any hard Mozart Symphony without knowing the Four Finger Technique at the heel. Also, in the Mahler Solo, I've seen most people play it (1-3-4) because audition committees don't want to hear a slide of any sort. Your hand never remains "static"...depending on your hand size or string length, your hand moves around the neck like a boxer would in the wring.

Also, I have no strain at all playing across all four strings with my thumb at the crook and my first finger on either Db, D, Eb or E

[Calvin Marks]

Ken, it sounds like the problem your having has to do with having a fairly low block height. It can be incredibly difficult to play on the E and A string if the overstand and block height is low. I don't think this has to do with an Eb or D neck...more so a hand clearance issue.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Ken, it sounds like the problem your having has to do with having a fairly low block height. It can be incredibly difficult to play on the E and A string if the overstand and block height is low. I don't think this has to do with an Eb or D neck...more so a hand clearance issue.

It is the Heel, trust me. Eb necks are easier to play for me than Ds regardless. I know all about Blocks and Overstand. I have had more basses modified than most people have owned.

I play on many old basses and have what ever the bass has as far as blocks, necks and heels. Some can be modified and some can't. Staying at under 42" SL maximum is always a goal and sometimes limits the results.

This is another subject but thanks for the thought. Come by some day and when we play together you will see what I mean. Maybe then you might have a helpful suggestion but it has to be for the bass I am playing and not one I would design or have made.

[Ken Smith]

It's final now if it ever was. The Eb for me is the way to go. maybe it's just the Basses I have here i am judging this by but the Necks that I like playing most are Eb or close to it.

Currently I am playing 'only' my English 'Hart bass which has an Eb Neck. I had put this Bass aside do to the slightly wider shoulders but not that I've gotten a bit more used to it, going back to a smaller shouldered bass with a 'D' neck sends me right back to the Hart. It used to be the other way around but things are a changing..

By the way, on this Eb neck, with proper hand position with my Thumb opposite the 2nd finger, my 1st finger plays the 'D' while my 2nd is on the Eb.