Amp volume question

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I was going to get an Eden WT 550 head and a decent cab but think that is serious overkill for that church.

Don

The WT-550 is a great head and I would highly recommend getting it or the WT-405. As far as cabs: Look at Eden's 210XLT, 210XST, 212XLT, and 410XLT's. These cabinets are VERY efficient with SPL ratings in the 106db range. Stick with 8 ohm cabs as you will have more coverage options down the road with the WT-550's ability to run at 2 ohms. Don't worry about "too loud" with this set-up. You can NEVER have enough headroom in your bass rig set-up. Think of it as having all the control you will need for most any room. It's not always about volume given the right set-up.

[Don Edge]

12's and/or 10's could help you hear yourself better on stage.

Funny you should say that, I could not hear myself very well at all last Sunday. I looked at the WT-405, on-line, and read the entire "amp" thread. I haven't heard of anyone using the WT-405, at that I can find. Is it a good head and will it give good tone with plenty of options? I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?

[Don Edge]

So with the WT-405 or 550 and the XLT or XST I could play at lower volumes and get the sound, or better sound, than I am currently getting?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

So with the WT-405 or 550 and the XLT or XST I could play at lower volumes and get the sound, or better sound, than I am currently getting?

Yes. You still have all the other sounds issues within the church that are being addressed. But at a minimum, you will be way ahead of where you are now.

[Dave Martin]

I can think of two other issues that should be addressed - the first is that the sound that Don likes might simply be a bit too loud for the situation. There's a level at which the amp starts moving some air - and if that point is both where Don likes the sound AND is too loud for the room, then the issue can't really be fixed unless he finds an amp that gives him the sound he likes quietly.

The other issue - and one that's easily fixed - is that if Don is standing up and the amp is right behind him on the floor, he might not be hearing the volume that is the source of the complaints. The easy fix for this is to put the amp up on a chair or stool so that it's pointing directly at his head.

[Don Edge]

I actually did buy an amp stand to get it off the floor. The vibration through the stage was terrible and sounded as bad. I do think the amp does not move enough air at the lower volumes to produce adequate "quality" sound. Others on the Fender forum have also recommended the same volume settings I discovered for optimum sound. It may be a deficiency of the equipment or just what you get for $300. I am standing right in front of it so I am hearing the volume. It isn't a problem to me. I am also standing next to the drums. The last church voiced the same issue but I had no control over the 18 inch subs in the house system. I did use a 15 and 18 cab for fill (connected). I also stood directly in front of those. They actually sounded pretty good. The 15 combo was popping so the cab linked to it helped the combo out. I would really like to hear what an Eden rig sounds like. I heard an Ampeg combo once and didn't like it but I assume the Eden stuff we are discussing is above that. Of the 12XLT or 10XLT, if you could only get one right now, which should it be with the WT-405 head?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I would really like to hear what an Eden rig sounds like. I heard an Ampeg combo once and didn't like it but I assume the Eden stuff we are discussing is above that. Of the 12XLT or 10XLT, if you could only get one right now, which should it be with the WT-405 head?

Go with the Eden rig we've been discussing. If I had to choose, and could only get one cab "right now", to use with the WT-405, I would choose the 210XST(8).

Remember, stay with the 8 ohm cabinets and give yourself the opportunity to add-on later should the need ever arise. You may or may not need the added coverage for what you are currently doing, but know that you could! With the WT-550 or WT-405, you could push up to 4 8-ohm cabinets with no problem.

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I do think the amp does not move enough air at the lower volumes to produce adequate "quality" sound.

I dunno, Don - I've used large amps like the SVT I used on my last fly date, medium sized amps (My raggedy old SWR Super Redhead, the Eden Metro that's in my garage and a 4x10 Ampeg and head that lives in my studio), and small amps (I have a 35 watt B15 in the studio and I'm trying out the 1x12 150 watt Fender Bassman TV 12). I can get a smile producing sound from all of them (Though the Metro, for some reason is more problematic).

Over the years, I've played through a bunch of venue or rental company supplied amps that were small combo amps - the little SWR Working Man 10, a bunch of different Fender amps in the 100-200 watt range, even the occasional guitar amp (Some bluegrass promoters don't appear to know the difference between guitar and bass amps - or they don't care). They can all be made to work.

Day in and day out, I hear my basses most often through a pair of studio speakers with 6.5 inch woofers - or through headphones. Moving air shouldn't be a necessity - unless what you think of as a 'quality sound' is linked to the way the bass sound fills the room.

Can you describe what you want to hear from your amp? How do you want to hear your bass in relation to the drum volume?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

12's and/or 10's could help you hear yourself better on stage.

Funny you should say that, I could not hear myself very well at all last Sunday. I looked at the WT-405, on-line, and read the entire "amp" thread. I haven't heard of anyone using the WT-405, at that I can find. Is it a good head and will it give good tone with plenty of options? I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?

Under your current circumstances, I totally understand why you are having trouble hearing yourself.

I have both the 550 and 405. Both heads are great. If I chose between the two, I'd go with the 405. Why? There are more options on the 405 (including a studio quality compressor) and two inputs. Both the 550 and 405 will run at 2 ohms and are close in output level.

Here's a link. Go check them out.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...mps/index.aspx

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?

Check out the followin link for more detail on these amps.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...mps/index.aspx

Once you've decided what you want, shop wisely, you don't have to pay retail price for these amps. When you get to that point, let me know.

[Don Edge]

Is the 405 you own like the one on the site or is it an older model before the changes they made?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

Is the 405 you own like the one on the site or is it an older model before the changes they made?

Yes, it's like the one you see on the site.

[Tim Bishop]

Don, BTW - has your church considered going to an AVIOM Set-up with everyone on in-ear monitors?

[Don Edge]

Originally Posted by Tim Bishop

Don, BTW - has your church considered going to an AVIOM Set-up with everyone on in-ear monitors?

I discussed about doing this with the drummer. It may be a good idea for all. At least for the drummer and me. I will suggest it to see the reactions and their opinions. The sound engineer will be coming maybe this Saturday. I do agree with you (at least I think you are agreeing) that sometimes you have to do what it takes. We will all be there when he is there. I wish I had the Eden gear for him to set-up.