Would I benefit from a new bow?

[Michael Holden]

So Ken... are you saying since the violin doesn't need the pull strength of a bass... the bow doesn't make as big of a difference on the violin??? I'm sorry, That is just more garbage. I'm glad "you" can tell a difference...I can do, BUT I have found a $700 bow which I like better then my instructors Reid Hudson. I have found a $1,300 Prochownik that I had a professional bassist at a string shop play, next to another Reid Hudson... he said the Prochownik was worth more. Every bassist is different, now if you need your expensive bows to play well and feel good playing it, thats you...But I know for me, I didn't like the REid Hudson's I've played, I liked the prochownik better. As did the professional bassist... who I had this same conversation with and he said he had a bow (don't recall the maker) he said it was worth about $8k.. and he said he hated it.. he sold it after having it for 3 months and returned to his $4k. I'm not saying expensive bows aren't good... I'm saying, sometimes cheaper bows are better for certain people... you have to try all bows.

[Nick Hart]

This is an interesting topic, and Ken and Michael are both right. My teacher has a Fetique and a couple of other very high quality bows. But he also has a $400 carbon fiber bow and a couple of mid range bows (800-2000). Are all of these bows equal in quality? Not at all, but he prefers different bows for different things, and I can assure you he sounds the same with every bow, and sounds just as good.

Sound does not come from an instrument or a bow, it comes from the player. Good instruments and good bows make it easier to get that sound. My teacher creates the same sound on my bass that he does on his Ruggieri (granted my bass does sound younger and he has to work a whole lot harder to get that sound on my bass). But his sounds is his sound no matter what instrument he plays on. None of our basses sound as good as the Ruggieri and none of our bows are as good as the Fetique, and when he plays those two together it makes for an amazing sound, but the equipment just enhances the sound, it does not create the sound. I can pretty much guarantee that I will get the same sound out of just about any bow you give me, the difference is cheaper bows work against you, and quality bows such as Fetique and Reid Hudson work for you.

[Tim Bishop]

Well I gotta tell ya, I am enjoying this one thoroughly.........

Ken, I believe you are up to bat!

[Michael Holden]

Mr. Hart, I'm not 100% in agreement with you... I agree with what you said about your instructor. But "I will have the same sound with every bass or bow I play with" that's not accurate... you can have one Prochownik bow, then pick up an exact same bow... and it will sound and feel different, same with the basses. The better the maker the higher the consistency, but there are still differences. That's why I say play EVERY bow you can.

[Ken Smith]

What have we got here?

I have owned 3 Lipkins Bows (2 currently) and 2 Bultitudes recently not to mention all the others. All Bows even by the same maker sound different. I had a 12 year old kid here yesterday with his mom and dad picking out one of my Loveri Bows. He already has a C.Loveri from me and came to buy a second Bow. His was 140 grams so I pulled out 7 Loveri Bows all at 140 grams and laid them out for him to try. The mom and dad as well as the kid could hear the differences from Bow to Bow as could I. Yes, he played about the same with each Bow but some Bows just gave him more sound with his touch.

First off, is that Ruggieri a real labelled authenticated Ruggieri or just attributed to him and which member of the Ruggieri family actually made that Bass? I am just personally curious.

On the Fetique/Ruggeri combo, first off did you know that Fetique Bows are on the light side and considered by most to be more of a solo Bow than an Orchestra Bow?

Prochownick and Hudson are not top of the line Bass Bow makers. They are good but more in the middle of the field as compared to Lipkins and Fuchs.

Each stick used for a Bow will sound and feel different. The Maker cannot change what the wood will do on its own. You guys have a lot to learn yet about Basses, Bows and their differences but it's nice to see this argued in the friendly spirit of things. I just wish you would listen more and argue less. I am not trying to sell you my Lipkins or Bultitude as they are really not for sale. Just trying to tell you from my experience and all the great Basses and Bows I have played and heard played how much they differ. Also, it's not so much that someone sounds almost the same no matter what he plays as you put it but rather how that person feels about how the 'tools' in his hand feel.

[Michael Holden]

I'm not sure if you read my reply, but I agreed... EVERY bow sounds different no two bows sound the same... which even further proves my statement to be correct.

[Nick Hart]

Ken-

I'm not positive about whether it has a label or attributed, he always just says his Ruggieri.

I do now that a Fetique bow is considered a solo bow, but I also come from a school of playing where we believe in one sound for solo and orchestral playing. Mr. Laszlo does have heavier bows that he uses for orchestra, I'm just not sure of the name.

As for Prochownik vs. Hudson vs. Lipkins. I am a German bow player and have never been in touch with a Lipkins German bow so I can't say anything but I've heard great things. Hudson German bows are some of the best modern handmade bows, as well as some others. I do not think Prochownick is in the same class as these two makers, and as of right now it seems like there is nobody in the same class as Lipkins. I'm not getting into that argument though because that is strictly opinionated.

I definitely understand what you are saying about perceived sound. And yes I do know that every bow responds differently, but I have listened and studied with some great players and no matter whose bass or bow they use they have their own individual sound and tone. Obviously an older bass is going to be more open and you will hear more overtones than a new Chinese bass, but I still believe and will not move on the fact that sound is from the player, and the technique in which we use a bow.

Michael -

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I'm sorry I guess. But in my experience that is my opinion, I saw a thread with two people going back and forth saying the exact same thing so I thought I'd add my opinion.


Now I have a question to put out into this thread.

My teacher always taps bows and looks to see if they have a pitch. He says that if the wood of the bow vibrates with a pitch than that is not good because the bow can react with the pitch being created. I was curious about other people's thoughts on this.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Nick Hart

Now I have a question to put out into this thread.

My teacher always taps bows and looks to see if they have a pitch. He says that if the wood of the bow vibrates with a pitch than that is not good because the bow can react with the pitch being created. I was curious about other people's thoughts on this.

Everything has a Pitch! Drop a shoe on the Floor. Hit you head against the wall. Kick a tire on a car. If it has a sound at any volume that can be heard, there is a pitch there whether you can guess the note or not. Some 'knocks' might have more harmonics than others and some will sound in a monotone to the ear but everything especially a Bow, has some sort of Pitch.

I don't know what a bad pitch would sound like. Doesn't the balance and color of the sound have something to do with it as well as how well it stays on the string or plays evenly from Frog to Tip? Are you saying he can tap a Bow and tell these things? Is his Crystal Ball made from Albino Pernambuco?

[Brett Clark]

On the surface that sounds good. I guess the theory is if the bow were to resonate at a particular pitch it would dampen(?) that frequency. On the other hand, isn't every stick is going to have some pitch associated with it based on its length and mass? Does he mean that the wood actually "rings" a tone?

Originally Posted by Nick Hart

Ken-


My teacher always taps bows and looks to see if they have a pitch. He says that if the wood of the bow vibrates with a pitch than that is not good because the bow can react with the pitch being created. I was curious about other people's thoughts on this.

And here are my thoughts about sound: A couple of years ago I went to a bass camp and at one of the master classes the symphony pro played my Engelhardt to demonstrate an aspect of my piece to me and though you could say his style and expertise came through, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that the instrument still sounded like crap. It was actually probably as close to sucessfully polishing a turd as I have seen.