Ex-Riccardi Cornerless Bass Copy (formerly attributed to 'Storioni') (SOLD)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

I'd put some little violin corners on it so you can pick it up, and also to increase its marketability.

That's so strange Arnold. I had a dream that I told you that EXACT thing less than a day/24 hours ago IN PERSON.. Geezz, what a freaking mind reader you are...

What kind of woods should we use for this? I mean, to get close to the sound besides just the archings and measurements we should try and match species and grain widths and densities as close as possible. Right?

As to Arnold's post on the Corner issue, I always had to find a place on the stage to lay the bass down rather then lean the corner on a chair beside my stool as I usually would with any other bass. So at least upper corners were on the menu for this. As far as lower corners, they are not needed for the 'copy' part but for marketability, something small with a shallow block inside would be the least interruptve as far as vibrations go.

[Sam Sherry]

We've gone back and forth a bit about how the ribs look laminated and, lo and behold, are in fact laminated.

I suspect that has a noticeable, perhaps even substantial, positive influence on the tone -- worth thinking about including in your reproduction.

Have fun and let us know what's up!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

We've gone back and forth a bit about how the ribs look laminated and, lo and behold, are in fact laminated.

I suspect that has a noticeable, perhaps even substantial, positive influence on the tone -- worth thinking about including in your reproduction.

Have fun and let us know what's up!

I think we posted at the same time and just missed this. I have mentioned the Ribs of the original and my plans for the new Bass.

I was always able to hear the sound loud and clear (I think) thru the Ribs as I played. It's hard to tell where all the sound came from. Also, it is impossible to know how the sound would be with solid Ribs in Guitar form rather than the 2-pc laminated.

Still, to avoid problems in the build and in the future, we will go with traditional Ribs. With so much surface area to glue, laminating or rather 'doubling' the Ribs leaves room for hidden voids. That is definitely something I don't want to run into, new or old. The original will be restored as it is but the new model will be modified.

[Robert J Spear]

I hope this bass will find its way to the ISB Convention in Rochester in 2013. I'd love to see it. I have not closely followed the chatter on cornerless basses, but there seems to be a prevailing theory that they sound better. Of course, I ask if the sound is better because they are cornerless, because they are a few hundred years old, because they were made by guys who knew what they were doing, or because time has weeded out all the clunkers?

I can tell you that modern acoustical research has shown that there's a lot of bending going on in the center bout region of bowed string instruments. My feeling is that the presence of corner blocks acts to stiffen the center, but without any good evidence as to whether this is a good or bad thing. There's a good bit of evidence that the violin evolved from the viheula, a small Spanish guitar, which makes me wonder why we don't see more cornerless instruments. The bass, on the other hand, is perhaps a different breed. Anyway, get cracking, Arnold, and lobby Ken to let us see this puppy when it's done.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Robert J Spear

Anyway, get cracking, Arnold, and lobby Ken to let us see this puppy when it's done.

Robert, the Bass (copy) was completed shown at the last VSA in Cleveland. Shortly after, the C-Extension was added and then delivered to me. After playing only a single rehearsal with the bass, it was Sold to a professional Orchestra player. I never got to use it on a Gig myself. By the time it was Sold, the original was restored and ready to use. It is a great bass and the sound had some age right out of the box, so to speak. I am sure it will come to develop as one of the great early 21th century basses.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...hnitzer-smith/ ..Sold..


Arnold Schnitzer

New York, 2010
SOLD

[Ken Smith]

I just had an idea that might be fun for some of you guys. If you like, post a photo-shopped image of the Bass with corners added. Use the Back so it's easier. The Top will be harder as the FFs are getting moved up and spread out more and the edges are quite curved and not as easy to draw over. I already submitted a basic drawing so whatever gets posted will mostly be for fun but hey, you never know.

[Charles A Thomas]

why not leave it cornerless and put a wood slat on the rib so it can be picked up more easily

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Charles A Thomas

why not leave it cornerless and put a wood slat on the rib so it can be picked up more easily

I have seen 'slats' before and even MY bass has a scar from something 'glued' to the rib over the varnish still shows from yesteryear. I have also seen Cornerless basses made with Top and Back Corners but without internal Blocks. They had the Blocks glued to the outer Rib attached to the Top and Back to hold and protect the Corners. I have seen two of these basses to date that I can remember. The other thing I have seen and actually own now but in restoration is an Italian bass with Top and Back Corners, Guitar one-piece Ribs, no inner Blocks being cornerless BUT, small outer 'scalloped' Blocks attached to the Ribs that the Top Corners glue to for support.
Here is a pic of the Scalloped outer Block bass we call 'Scallopini'!


Now, an important thing Arnold mentioned was marketability. For an Italian Bass over 200 years old made as it was made and with the reputation of sound being well known and rememberd by all that have heard it in the last 40 years we can accept this particular Bass for what ever venue the player brings it to. For selling it, it is a known classic Italian Bass with a sound to die for. In making a brand new Bass today and keeping the re-sale thought in mind, putting corners on the 'modified' copy along with several other changes to the original Bass to meet todays needs in both playability and marketability.

[Ken McKay]

Good for you Ken, that will turn out nice I think.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Didn't David Wiebe copy that bass?

Good for you Ken, that will turn out nice I think.

I would measure the plate resonances of the original when it is in restoration.

I would measure the density of the plates.

I would copy the exact bass.

I would laminated the ribs just as they were originally except I might use different thickness veneers. I can explain this if you wish.

Corners will change the way the corpus vibrates.

Ken, I can have it copied 100% if I like, 44 1/2" string length and all. The facts are that I DO own the original and I want to have the copy different. I already know what the original sounds like. I also know I will not live 200+ years to hear the copy age like the original has. Also, the bass has been repaired over the centuries as well and I will not live through that either.

I have used the original in Symphony concerts so I know very well what I would like if I owned a twin with the desired modifications. This is it, the twin, modified!

You would need wood from the same boards as this to make it exact but even then, it wont be. Only the exact is the exact.

I know David's copy BUT, to my eye it is more of an inspired copy than a copy copy. It was made with Walnut, different Scroll, different FFs and, he didn't have the original apart in his hands at his disposal to copy from. Arnold has heard the Wiebe copy and it doesn't sound like the original. Perhaps nothing will. The original has been re-graduated within the last 100 years or so and we have to 'guesstimate' what the original thicknesses were. Actually, the bass is currently 'reverse-graduated' The bass is thinner now in the middle and thicker (original) around the outer edges as the center was cut up quite a bit. We will use something more traditional and maybe tap tone the Top along the way making it to the actual wood chosen. We will have to ask Arnold when all is done how he arrived at the final thicknesses. I say we but 'I' am not the maker here. Arnold Schnitzer is. The 'we' is us, maker and player/designer but without 'me' commissioning this, it would never happen.

On the Ribs, they will be solid, not laminated. We can see now how cross grain Spruce against Maple reacts after 200+ years. Not something I want to see in my lifetime. I will however have the Rib depth and top to bottom tapers copied. This will not be a very deep bass at all. It tapers 7 3/4" to 5 3/4" Block to Block.

I asked Arnold to copy as close as possible and make the same Purfling as well. I also want that Scroll/Pegbox copied. It might get slightly extended in length if it helps fitting the C-Extension as this was a 3-string. How would this maker have made the Pegbox if it was to be a 4-string originally? This is in thought for now. We can use the Original to measure from and decide from there.

Maybe we need to have a mini-convention of all the recent Cornerless Bass copies and inspired models which this one actually is. I am not all that concerned how much the corners will affect the sound. The inside lines of the Bass will flow in the manner of mainly a Guitar form.

[Ken McKay]

I am sure it will be fantastic.

I forgot about that string length. You can't really leave it that long, can you?