Hawkes & Son.. (The Official KSB Hawkes Bass Discussion Thread)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by RobertRyanAshley

Sorry didn't realize those pics were quite so large.

First off, try reading this and maybe you can edit the size down. http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=100

On the Bass itself I think it's French. I saw one other bass labeled from Turin by an Italian maker (Rocca I think was from Turin as well) that was a dead ringer for a Mirecourt Bass. Turin is so close to France that the culture is intermingled. So might be the distribution and re-labeling business.

This bass above was first on line from Lemur a few years ago. The Gears are Italian as I had a Bass years ago with those very same gears. I was told they dated to about 1880. The bass on the other hand is a Vuillaume style influenced pattern. Whom ever came up with it first I can't say but most of the credit usually goes to JB Vuillaume.

I don't know who the maker is there but I would not say Riviere-Hawkes. Those Basses are from Joseph Jacquet who partnered with a man named Barbezant and became Jacquet-Barbezant. The Gears on all of these Basses are the typical Mirecourt gears. It is also possible that the Scroll is either not original or someone found the gears and replaced the ones from Mirecourt. I don't think that bass is as old as labeled. Maybe off by 50 years or so. A french bass re-labeled and sold by a shop in Turin? That is also a possibility.

Just guessing from the Pics. Only a personal in and out inspection could 'maybe' determine what that bass was meant to be.

[Eric Hochberg]

Came across this, Ken. Are you familiar with Bailey and any connection to R&H? English made?

http://www.sothebys.com/en/search.ht...=double%20bass

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

Came across this, Ken. Are you familiar with Bailey and any connection to R&H? English made?

http://www.sothebys.com/en/search.ht...=double%20bass

Never heard his name before. Perhaps he was hired to finish up or set-up the basses if supplied incomplete or un-finished in the white that was supplied by on of the French Firms. Also, British firms have been known to label or brand instruments that they only sell in their shop made by others, new and old.

I have seen pictured a few R & H basses and two in person that were claimed to be. One was false as the date was off by over 20 years and German/Bohemian made and the other was 100% a French bass that first was thought to be a Claudot or Jacquet. Only after the bass was opened for restoration was the label found hidden inside from R&H. The R&H firm/name was closed in 1889 and then the name of Hawkes & Son replaced it. I think they have to date 1880-1889 to be genuine regardless of the label used or the dealers opinion.

[Ken Smith]

I just recently bought an old/newish bass that was re-constructed around an old French Hawkes Top that was found in England with its original French Tuners. One way that I can personally confirm this is French is by the wood. It is the same wide and wavy grain often found on the Jacquet basses known as Silver Spruce. The Top was re-built around all for outer wings and also re-varnished in the process. Then, a fine Luthier in Hungary used Walnut that was cut into Back and Rib sets some 20 years ago re-made the bass modeled partially on the Hawkes pattern and even added the outer linings as found on the German-made Hawkes imports. The Neck with a short 3-string style British Peg-box was made new for the bass but he had an old Hungarian Head/Scroll lying around which he grafted to the top of the pegbox. Have a look;

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

a fine Luthier in Hungary

Was that maybe Barnabás Rácz ?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

Was that maybe Barnabás Rácz ?

No, I don't think it was him but I can ask to make sure. The Old Hungarian bass I have was restored by him but this was another maker who possibly apprenticed with him. There are a few good makers/restorers there now but Rácz is the top guy in Hungary and possibly Eastern Europe.

[John Cubbage]

Thank you for this very detailed information about Hawkes basses. What you've collected here is great.

My first experience with Hawkes Panormo basses was at Juilliard. While a student there I received one to use from the Juilliard instrument collection. It looked much like the one pictured in the first posting in this thread. It had dark varnish, external rib linings, flat back, and the large tuning gears. Some wood was spliced into the upper back of this bass, so no H or F was visible.

I worked with a bassist in the North Carolina Symphony who had two Hawkes Panormo basses: One had varnish that was orange in color, external rib linings, large tuning gears, and a round back. His other Hawkes Panormo did not have external rib linings, the varnish was light brown, round back, tuning gears were less large, and had very nice looking wood. The varnish and wood reminded me of a couple of instruments I'd seen from the Vuillaume shop. I do not recall an H or F on the upper backs of these basses.

My latest view of a Hawkes Panormo bass was in a video demonstration from Lemur that was online during this year. Lemur was selling a Hawkes Panormo which sounded quite good over the internet.

Hawkes basses are out there.

-Dr. C.